What level of facade and finish ?

[Patosan]

I'm about to build 3 T/H later this year in Essendon, Melbourne and will be keeping all 3.
The area is not quite a "South Yarra" or "Brighton" but definitely an area where a high level of finish is becoming the norm.

Recently Kristine correctly advised not to over spend inside IP since value and rent will not increase correspondingly, she did however suggest extra spent on a nice facade would be beneficial.

I had believed that building a structure with character and quality would result in higher value and rent LONG term, area permitting. I recall searching thru listings ... when seeing 20 yr old IP mostly they were modern for their time but looked almost ugly NOW. Whereas nice period places seemed to keep their charm. Surely this will result in better value and rent, or will time level "all" IP ?

As I stated I'm holding these (in a trust) for the long haul so I want what is best for the future. So is it a good idea to build "up to" the local standard or keep them "below" the rest to reduce costs ?

What do you think ?

[Jas]

do both?

reduce costs now, then rejevutet the tired look for a caswhflow boost later?

Jas

[asy]

do both?

reduce costs now, then rejevutet the tired look for a caswhflow boost later?

Jas

Or as a Jas-Translator:

"reduce costs now, then rejuvenate the tired look for a cashflow boost later?"

asy :D

[Kristine..]

Hi Paddy

How are the mudflats?

Regarding my previous comments;

Inside is best streamlined, that is, keep it simple.

When you repaint, it is the fiddly bits which cost money.

Satin oil paint on doors and trims, and good quality paint with at least two coats over the plasterboard. Low-sheen gloss in utility areas. Basic laminex colours - if a cupboard door is damaged you can simply replace the door

Keep light fittings, door handles etc nice and simple, but this doesn't necessarily mean 'plain'. For examply, you can have shiny 'brass' trims on light fittings, scratch plates behind handles, flowered handles in the en suite, simple things like that.

Keep utility areas simple as borders and tile motifs really date: The use by date for tiles can be as little as five years, even for the shape. Brick sized tiles date a building to mid 1970s, mosiac to early 1970s etc Use white sanitaryware: not only is this cheaper than coloured, even ivory basins and baths are outdated now.

Regarding facade, I think I suggested 'middle of the road'. By this I mean contemporary modern. If you go for 'Federation' then you will again be up for fiddly painting with the fretwork, 'Victorian' with unnecessary lacework, etc If you experiment with brick pointing, polychromatic effects or quoining on the corners you will be paying heaps to the bricklayer with no real benefit in the long term.

Look at what the main project builders are doing. Westwater, Burbank and others which are active in the Maribyrnong, Ascot Vale and general areas each have excellent websites where you can see the styles which are popular now. Burbank would also quote you on construction - I still have contacts there if you are interested in what they could do for you.

Essentially, if you are keeping for the long haul, repairs, maintenance and refurbishment of the building should be considered as part of the design. Install good quality cisterns, this will save you lots of plumbing expense. Landscaping is the main part of street appeal, and you will need to consider maintenance of the garden areas facing the street as this will directly impact on operating costs.

Keep in mind that housing is becoming 'smart'. Five star energy ratings, plus wiring for internet, security systems, more than one land line, cable TV etc. Unless you are happy for tenants to be connecting these services in an ad hoc way, build them in to start with. ditto for dishwashers, auto garage doors, doors between garage and house, security lighting, heating, air conditioning, window shading, outside living areas and all the other bells and whistles.

You may not want to include everything now, but now is the cheapest it is going to be, plus you won't have to be organising anything by long distance.

As I mentioned previously, my customised Pioneer home is now only $20 more in rent each week than the extremely ordinary and much smaller Pioneer on the opposite side of the street. They have added value (?) with 'period' decorating inside however if your furniture doesn't match then you wouldn't take the house. You would take mine, which is painted throughout including ceilings in the one colour a sort of clotted cream. Any colour or style of furniture fits, the jetmaster fireplace and the panelled doors are really the only internal features. Remember, I recently washed the complete house out by hand, and the most time per item went on washing the balustrading and the panelled doors.

A high level of finish, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Stainless steel is moving on, granite is becoming ordinary, gloss kitchen cabinet doors remain popular, floating floors look great but only if you don't live there, etc etc Colour is the cheapest accessory there is, and the most easily changed.

Paddy, ask yourself how involved you want to be on a month by month basis. I looked at a block of four units last week, really sad and sorry for themselves, built about late 1950s. Apart from repointing the ridge cappings, I'll bet these units have not seen a paint brush or any other maintenance for many years. Yet they are all tenanted, most tenants have been there more than four years, the two tenants who were home when I inspected told me how much they liked living there (yeh, and the mildewed bathrooms and the two cabinet kitchens were really great, too!).. If I buy these and choose not to do anything to them, they will still continue to be tenanted and at rents comparable to the general area.

In contrast, No. 1 Son's nearly new very swish townhouse has now been empty for 7 weeks. I regret that I didn't follow my own preference and bought the rather tatty townhouse nearby for $185,000 which would have been rented twice over by now.

I guess what I am saying is:

Design to a moderate and modest standard. this does not mean plain or dowdy. Pay attention to the garden design and to obvious conveniences such as visitor car parking.

Keep in mind that people like to sit outside and that smokers appreciate a roof over their heads.

People want all the cable services.

Access to the garage from the house is important.

Don't overdo the fiddly bits. What are the big kids building for the spec market? Look at their finishes but tone it down a level or two (they buy granite at bulk prices - try buying just one kitchen of 'Mother of Pearl' granite and you will see what I mean).

Good luck Paddy, this is a major undertaking and I hope it all goes well for you.

Cheers

Kristine

[Lplate]

What Kristine says rings true from my experience.

Our architect always does open plan kitchens. Open plan has been the fashion for a decade at least. However it is hard to keep a kitchen, especially the servery, uncluttered and tidy.

I am thinking about a raised (200mm) front on the servery and maybe putting the fridge unit at the end of the servery to break the totally open look. However this would still permit the person in the kitchen to see and talk with those in the lounge and eating areas.

What do people think about amending open plan kitchen? :)
Lplate

[Mal P]

Kristine - great post! Completely agree - the final touches can definately look more appealing to a tennant, especially cheap ones like psuedo stainless steel power point cases, $50 for a whole house and easily replacable, but makes things look a lot less plain. I don't like granite myself - too hard to maintain, I much prefer Ceasar Stone but for tennants, really, good old MDF will do.

Lplate - I like closing off the kitchen a little bit, a raised breakfast bar or something along those lines will definately block off some of that untidyness.

[Jas]

Or as a Jas-Translator:

"reduce costs now, then rejuvenate the tired look for a cashflow boost later?"

asy :D

spelling, smhelling...

who needs it?


Jas

[geoffw]

spelling, smhelling...

who needs it?


JasI'm in IT- I don't need spelling.

But perhaps a journalist might? :D

[Lplate]

[snip]

Lplate - I like closing off the kitchen a little bit, a raised breakfast bar or something along those lines will definately block off some of that untidyness.
Mal P
Agree.

What's Ceasar stone? :)
Lplate

Amended: No problem, after Googling around I found suppliers. Thanks :D

[geoffw]

Mal P
Agree.

What's Ceasar stone? :)
LplateI always thought that Caesar's tone was rather high and mighty :D

[Aceyducey]

I'm in IT- I don't need spelling.

But perhaps a journalist might? :D
That's what editors are for. If they don't have any spelling mistaikes to correct they feel unloved :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[geoffw]

That's what editors are for. If they don't have any spelling mistaikes to correct they feel unloved :)

Cheers,

AceyduceyI thought they were tyops, not mistaikes

[Jas]

... especially cheap ones like psuedo stainless steel power point cases, $50 for a whole house and easily replacable, but makes things look a lot less plain.


Mal, where do you get those?

Jas

[Mal P]

Hi Lplate - Caesar Stone is a bench-top material that looks, feels and smells like granite, but unlike the latter, is not porous (so no more ring stains which remain for days after lifting up your coffee) and is much tougher - doesn't crack under heat as easily. And looks the same. http://www.caesarstoneaustralia.com has more information.

Hi Geoff - An empire is defined by the grandeur of it's kitchens... :)

Jas - I've seen them around hardware stores, you basically just pop off the existing white case on the power switches and points etc and pop the stainless steel ones back on. Check out Clipsal at www.clipsal.com.au

Sincerely,
Mal

[Patosan]

Thanks for all the responses thus far.

It seems most advise not to overspend even on the facade ... fair enough.
Though I'm interested in the level of finish "relative" to the majority of other houses in the area. Especially since there are 2 sets of very nicely finished T/H as imediate neighbours.

I know we hear "buy the worst house in the best street". Once bought then to what level should we improve it ?

Also is curbside appeal much more relevent to rental potential than internal finish ?

[Aceyducey]

I know we hear "buy the worst house in the best street". Once bought then to what level should we improve it ?

Also is curbside appeal much more relevent to rental potential than internal finish ?
Patosan,

A rule of thumb I like is that you don't improve it at all if you don't have to!

If it's rentable as it, don't expend any energy, money or time making it look prettier - you can always do this down the track when you want a CG boost :)

If you do need to improve it - IMHO aim no higher than slightly above median. You don't want to take it beyond the character of the street, but you do want to make sure that it's done up enough to remain at median level of attractiveness for some time (and many tenants do let the property drop a bit).

If you're looking for CG rather than tenants - IMHO aim a bit higher, but avoid placing the property amongst the top few....vanishing returns kick in as the neighbouring properties may begin affecting the price & you begin to get out of the price bracket where there are a large number of people interested in the property.

IMHO Curbside appeal is No.1 for selling /revaling a place but is still highly important for getting people in the door for rental inspections....

If someone buys it on curb appeal & doesn't like the interior it's THEIR problem. If someone rents it on curbside appeal & then decides to leave after a short lease because the interior is poor, that's YOUR problem :)

So do commit some energy to ensuring that the interior is 'fresh' (painted, carpeted, cleaned) at least.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[always_learning]

Pat, I know that you are in Japan, do you plan to ever return to Melbourne and may live in one of your new town houses? If so then why not make the best positioned one a little better (but not so much better as to detract from the others).

Just considering the issues when my wife and I choose to rent. Street appeal needs to be OK, not "yuk" no car bodies, garden OK...doesnt need to look grand so spend big on facade isnt going to help.!

The most important thing for my wife is "clean" with a focus on 2 areas, clean kitchen and clean bathroom. To be honest we dont care about the floors being 2 pak high gloss 1st grade Victorian Ash, kauri pine or standard quality chipboard. Being clean and "new" looking is vital. If your tenants could be asian then a bigger ducted range hood (to outside) rather than circulating will help with keeping the kitchen walls clean looking.

My wife also worries about security in particular when I am on business trips, so a security system also would meet with approval.

I personally am a techno geek, so a rental property with extra electrial points and cabling in most rooms (computer network, electicity, phone, cable TV), I hate cables cluttering the floor for my home theater and computer.

Electric garage door and entrance direct to the house saves getting shopping/kids/yourself wet during rain storms.

So my advise is to go with the standard materials a grade higher on the durablity level than normal, go for the no so expensive add-ons to make life more comfortable for the tenants. Too much IMO would be for example a Miele kitchen is nice if you own it, as per humans need to own "status", Miele kitchens, status with street appeal etc, but if you rent then it's just as nice to have good quality but non status appliances "clean new and functional". Renting "status" just doesnt have the same human appeal. Renting a Porsche doesnt say the same thing as "owning" a Porsche.

I have just completed a development with the same property development management you are considering. The advise I got from them was very good and if you go 100% with their recommendations everything will be fine, but dont be afraid to make it "different" to suit your opinions. For example in Japan everyone has heated toliet seats (normally with anus washing jets), now I think anything less is babaric, coming back to OZ and sit on cold toliet seat in Melbourne's winter is a shocking experience. So I asked for heated toliet seats! Unfortuantely as I found out they are very expensive in OZ ($1495) so after electricals etc it just wasnt worth it! However I instructed that extra power-points, TV plugs etc be installed.

If I was going to spend extra money then an alarm system and upgraded kitchen would have been next, then more work on creating outdoor living spaces, a private outdoor living space is very nice thing IMHO.

[Patosan]

I love Mal's statement : "An empire is defined by the grandeur of it's kitchens... ".
Yet I agree with most sentiments about non brand but reliable appliances and a clean image are more important than brand or status type items such as marble benches.

Curbside appeal is my concern now, with respect to it maintaining charm LONG term.

AL : I've already decided to go full steam ahead with the project manager, sent the aggreement and first cheque off yesterday. Good to hear that you strongly support their advise. Also although I'm in Japan too and we do have a luxury toilet seat, our family all use the squat outside hole in the ground. My experience when returning to Oz is the opposite to yours ... I much prefer squatting ... things seem to flow oh so well.

[Michael Yardney]

Also is curbside appeal much more relevent to rental potential than internal finish ?

You never get a second chance to make a first impression, so curbside apeal is very important. Potential tenants will drive up to a proerty and it they don't like it they won't get out of their cars - they will drive on to the next one.

[geoffw]

I know of one (former) forumite who used to just do up what was visible from the street. Only the front of a fence and the front wall was painted- even topiary was hired to give it street appeal at sale time; there was a detacahble bullnose verandah also sometimes used temporarily.

topiary
// adjective 1. (of hedges, trees, etc.) clipped or trimmed into (fantastic) shapes.

(Thanks Sunstone)

[manny]

Hi Patosan,

well if I were in your shoes I'd ensure the fascade did complement the street & not go for something extraordinary/unusual (ie. modern in a street with period homes)... if you have nice townhouses next door, I'd look at complementing them if anything, making them look a little more appealing, as MY said, "curbside apeal is very important". You may ask why? well potential tenants will drive up to a proerty and it they like it u will get them to inspect it as well &/or IF you would like to sell, the external appeal/fascade could get u the extra dollas (first impressions do count) & even if a bank valuer does a drive by, looking better quality would give u a good valuation (unlike if they looked cheap & poxy on the outside)... u would be surprised, it wouldn't cost too much more to pretty up the fascade if planned well (ie. brick colours, seals, windows, etc...)

Cheers,

Manny.

[Patosan]

OK the facade is decided - good quality timeless modern.
It won't be cheap but no where near as expensive as terra cotta roof, etc, etc.
Couldn't agree more about giving heaps of phone, internet, TV jacks. Perhaps also installing adequate conduit for future cable or whatever ?
I'm not sure about alarm systems though. Of course they're great but aren't they prone to trouble and ongoing maint ?

Also thanks to everyone's input I won't use granite or status type appliances in the kitchen. Someone was telling me about a new imitation granite laminex, plus I'd like to know what MDF is ?

Now to the living areas - what type of flooring ?
It seems that everyone expects polished floorboards nowadays, carpet is rare as hens teeth nowadays from scanning thru the T/H for sale or rent on the net. I imagine there are various levels of boards, I even saw some interesting cream coloured ones ! I know floorboards can need maint but carpet is all too easily damaged and aged ... or isi it ?
If you had a choice what would you use for your up market IP ?

Next bathroom ; I would think a skylight is mandatory to keep it as bright as possible ... nothing worse than a dull bathroom.
Big mirrors ?
Big or small basin ?
Shower surround ?
Ever thought of glass bricks for one wall ... extra light ?

That's enough questions for now ?

[Patosan]

Update time :

Now I'm deciding on some of the inclusions.
The current rental market means that any extra spent probably means that there won't be corresponding increase in rent ... or "return" however equally important in a slow market is geting tenants to choose my IP.
i.e. minimising vacancy time without overly reducing rent level

I'm going with allarm systems and skylights in bathrooms, actually I'm considering skylights in kitchens too, especially those that don't have a window at the work area. I believe brightness can't be overestimated in the "feel" or atmosphere of a place.

What about fixed BBQ - plumbed gas connection ?
Are robe doors better mirrored or not ?
How many pc connections ?

[manny]

Hi Patosan,

well if there isn't enough light in the bathroom (ie. no window), skylights do wonders & brighten up the area... in terms of the kitchen, if there is a window already (ie. above sink), there may be ample lighting (not sure of ur design/plans) BUT if you think there won't be enought light, a skylight would be a good investment... however if the lighting coming from the window is ample, a simple downlight above the work area may also be ample (& is handy at night)... skylights aren't all that expensive & I would personally recommend them...

alarms are also good (especially when ur competition may not have one installed), which you can typically speak to the sparky & have it installed at the time they do the wiring, which would be easier for them & cheaper for you...

In terms of a BBQ, depends on the size of the courtyard... to brick one up & get a gas BBQ installed & fixed to the gas mains would be very appealing to any tenant, but get prices on how much it would cost & work out the added benefits it would give you (ie. valuation & yield)... note: a friend had built not too long ago & decided against a fixed BBQ & instead bought a BBQ on wheels & a gas bottle & left it under the pergola for the tenants to use (it was written in the rental agreement that they will need to fill the bottle when they leave & got one of the swap/fill bottles)...

Well mirrors on BIR doors isn't a bad idea, but I prefer to go for pannel doors to match the house & also have heard of ppl not liking the mirror doors as it is hard to keep clean (especially when u have kids finger marks all over them)...

PC connections is another tricky one, where do you add the outlet, where do they run to (ie. a cupboard or a study), if goes to a cupboard, do u supply a patch pannel? I personally wouldn't worry about it, especially since anyone can just get ADSL or Broadband run into the study when needed & have a wireless hub hooked into the workstation & get internet access from anywhere within the house (it becomes their problem to manage security), I'd be more concerned to have adequate number of phone points & antena outlets throughout the house (ie. phone to study, kitchen wall for wall mounted phone & possibly the cupboard that will have the alarm to ensure the alarm has somewhere to plug into, as most alarm call a number even if not monitored when it goes off & for TV antena have it run into the lounge, main bedroom, etc...)

Cheers,

MannyB.

[Patosan]

Thanks Manny,

Yeah I have been thinking that adequate telephone outlets are perhaps more critical than pc ones. If I take that tack I guess I should have phone oulets in the kitchen and main BR of course, plus alarm box and ... ?
Though is it true that too many outlets even if not in use can reduce signal quality ?

Interesting comments about the mirrored robe doors, personally I always thought they looked tacky. But I'm after landlord and tenant opinions. Hmmm ... fingerprints well that's the tenants problem.

My sister had a skylight fitted above her kitchen work area even though they have many windows in close proximity, but not "at" the area. the difference is great and she is soooo very glad she did it. My other IP has a fairly nice standard bathroom with a fairly standard window and the colours are creamy white but it is somewhat dull. From my experience as a DJ I know the value of lighting on people's feelings. the mood created on potential tenants' first visit is important. A dull house will not rent as easily as a bright one.

However I would love to hear others' opinions too.

PS Manny are you still getting into that chocolate mud cake ?

[manny]

Hi Patosan,

well in terms of phone points, really those 3 would be more than enough, in terms of bad signal, I've always had Testra guys do the wiring, with them coming in just prior to plaster being fitted & then on completion for fixing of points (make sure the plasterer makes a hole in the wall & pulls out the phone wire)... they weren't expensive (if anything, ours didn't charge extra, happened to be a neighbour by co-incidence & just charged for the single point, but I think it is an additiona $80 per extra point, but worth it as they are Austel approved & all is legal)...

Well in terms of the chocolate mud cakes, I can't have enough of it, part of my "see food diet" :)

Cheers,

Manny.

[Ecogirl]

as a chick i love places that have mirrors on the sliding wardrobe door....it is useful for trying on outfits - don't laugh i'm serious....

Ecogirl :)

[manny]

Hi Ecogirl,

good to get some other opinions, do u like mirrored wardrobe doors in all rooms? or just the master?

Manny.

[BV]

Patosan,

To me a good facade, landscaping and an overall good street appeal is
important. Choose a nice looking front door. A plain internal door will cost you
$40.00 but for a little more you can have 6 panel interior doors instead of
plain ones.

Interior looks are important too, for the walls choose nice and light colours
and select acrylic paint that is washable. That way you just wipe off stains
when the tenants move out and avoid the repaint.

Think modern. In today's homes people have more than 1 computer.
With Network outlets fitted and extra phone connections your properties
will have an advantage over other ones and would rent easier.

The cost will not be much. Run some CAT5 cable between a cental point
(garage?) and all rooms. do the same with phone cable.
Its hard to add these later in townhouses.

Fit an exhaust fan in the bathrooms/showers.
You will avoid mould problems.

Kitchen cabinet doors can be plain, but you can choose a nice colour and a
nice looking laminated benchtop. I wouldn't use a shiny imitation granite
because you can see the scratches on it.

cheers

[Kristine..]

G’day

Just a few thoughts ....

Well, regarding the mirrored wardrobe doors, it is very bad Fung Shui and off-putting for people who may see it as ‘kinky’.

A mirror fitted inside the wardrobe on the door means the mirror is there but not on show. But if you are fitting sliding doors put the mirror on the back of the room door, or just ignore the issue. Put a full length mirror in the bathroom behind the door, instead.

Don’t forget a phone point where a computer may go. It seems to me that with portable handsets a phone point in the main bedroom is not really necessary nowadays.

The main features which drew comment at Myrtle Cottage were the satin finish oil paint (half strength Swiss Coffee) on the doors and woodwork, the plush carpets with a self-pattern (shadow pattern) and the kitchen and bathroom and the semi-flush storage cupboards such as the ironing board cupboard.

Carpet is very cheap to replace, much cheaper than re-sanding and re-polishing floorboards. It is also quieter, thermally efficient, and gives an elegant feel to a house. Polished floorboards in rental accommodation (to my way of thinking) indicates that the landlord thinks the tenants are messy and won’t take care of spills or other damage. I have found it really cheap and easy to replace the carpets, but have left the grip strips and underfelt in place. I recently did the ‘medical centre’ in berber and underfelt in both bedrooms, the passage, lounge and rumpus room for less than $1,000. I couldn’t have sanded & polished the floors for that, and the house is quieter & warmer which equals greater comfort for the occupant.

I agree that polished boards look great, however we once put hardwood floors in a 30sq house and the floors showed every speck of dust and the echo was horrific. Timber floors are uncomfortable to sit on and show scratches and scrape marks. We had to reseal the kitchen meals area after about three years.

However, tile the entrance and the walk ways through to the kitchen and meals area. Tiles are more expensive to lay, but will save wear and tear on the carpet in traffic areas.

By the way, my exec house is now seven years old, and the builder’s carpet is synthetic. After a really good steam-cleaning job (truck mounted cleaner), even the stair carpet came up like new. No wear areas anywhere and really fresh looking. The steam cleaner said his filters clogged three times, so there was some serious gunk in the carpet, yet the carpet bounced back and is good for a long time yet.

Be careful with skylights. In the daytime a skylight in the kitchen is a good idea, but at night it means the light-fitting will be off-centre and perhaps throw shadow patterns. I wear spectacles and find spot lights extremely annoying. Too much contrast between lit and not lit areas. The low voltage systems tend to ‘fuse’ the little spotlights into the holders, they are not as simple to replace as a globe in a batten holder or even a fluoro tube.

Too much light can mean the house overheats, chills rapidly, and the price of curtains & drapes can really add up. Five Star houses are now reducing the amount of glazed areas to stabilize internal temperatures. Daughter’s townhouse had a 4’6” square skylight in the bathroom and the blazing light was unbearable. Moderation in all things.

Regarding the outdoor space: Some covered areas, a power point or two, a sliding window above the kitchen bench for passing food outside, privacy and a paved or concreted area is more than enough. If someone wants a BBQ they can choose & buy one for themselves.

Mirrors in bathrooms are very important. Blokes tend to fit small shaving cabinet type mirrors and anyone under 170cm tall can’t see into them. Mirrors one tile above the vanity bench top and reaching to the top of the door architrave height give plenty of reflection plus make the room look bigger. And don’t forget the towel rails. Doubles, properly fitted to the studs. A rail for each potential bed plus a couple extra. Can you reach the rails from the shower stall? The bath? Is the hand-towel accessible to the vanity? Make sure the ducted heating extends to a vent in the bathroom.

What about a small basin in the WC cubicle? Or a mirrored storage cabinet in the laundry above the trough?

Yes, the list could go on. My priorities are safety (good, shadowless lighting, non-slip flooring, good outside lighting, safe place in the kitchen for the microwave etc), ergonomics (what is the kitchen like to work in, which way do doors open, are elbows safe from bumping), functionality (power points reduce the use of extension leads & thus electrical and trip hazards, baths and separate showers, wash basins with toilets), practicality (foldaline clothes line under the eaves, storage shed, extra roller door through to rear yard, dishwasher plumbed to hot water), comfort (gas ducted heating, ducted evaporative cooling and/or canvas sun blinds) and glamour (good interior decorating, some luxury features such as gloss woodwork, smart street appeal, inviting outdoor spaces).

Try and project five years ahead and build or outfit to that standard. As previously mentioned, my ‘exec’ house has never been empty, has all ‘mod cons’ and apart from the abysmal lack of gardening has always been well looked after.

Enjoy the project

Kristine

[Aceyducey]

We currently run 4 phone connections (none in bedrooms - that's taboo in my house) and a home network with two hubs.

Frankly I don't think these things add much to the value or rent. It's better to focus on the things everyone needs.

The front garden we're putting in is worth at least $20K to the house's value & paint job inside 5-10K.

Put the money where it adds value rather than on the things YOU'D like to have.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[BV]

We currently run 4 phone connections (none in bedrooms - that's taboo in my house) and a home network with two hubs.
Put the money where it adds value rather than on the things YOU'D like to have.
Cheers,
Aceyducey

Acey,
Patosan is going to rent these TH's out, and adding value is good but
he might not be able to get any extra rent.

Adding phone and network outlets are a small cost and offer advantages.
These IP's will be in melbourne, so in large cities more and more
people choose to work from home.

If he is renting to families with kids, the kids will most likely have a computer
each and Networking the PC's to share the broadband internet connection is
becoming the norm in many households.
If he doesn't install them in the beginning during construction they are not
easy to add later so his I/Ps will be like the ones next door (ordinary).

It would also be good if he could also run alarm wire for the alarm sensors,
the control panel and the sirens. He doesn't have to install the alarm If he
doesn't want to but it saves time and money if it is all done as a package.

cheers

[geoffw]

Carpet is very cheap to replace, much cheaper than re-sanding and re-polishing floorboards. It is also quieter, thermally efficient, and gives an elegant feel to a house. Polished floorboards in rental accommodation (to my way of thinking) indicates that the landlord thinks the tenants are messy and won’t take care of spills or other damage. I have found it really cheap and easy to replace the carpets, but have left the grip strips and underfelt in place. I recently did the ‘medical centre’ in berber and underfelt in both bedrooms, the passage, lounge and rumpus room for less than $1,000. I couldn’t have sanded & polished the floors for that, and the house is quieter & warmer which equals greater comfort for the occupant.Not quite agreed on this.

I've some 1BR units with carpets, some with polished floors (living area only). The tenants I've spoken to love the polished floor- many have had experience with losing bond; now their cleaning bill is reduced as well.

I've got hardwood floors(Tassie oak). The cost was about $250, vs $450 for carpeting a slightly smaller area for the bedroom. But a glass of wine will do a lot more damage to a carpet than to a polished floor.

My decision to polish was based on the RE agent's recommendation.

[Aceyducey]

If he doesn't install them in the beginning during construction they are not easy to add later so his I/Ps will be like the ones next door (ordinary).All our networks were installed into an existing house with ONE phone socket in a matter of a few hours.

Wireless hubs are cheap & becoming more & more common...'how to create your own wireless network' is now considered an acceptable topic for beginners' guides in publications about computing.

Cordless phones have been around for a long time & easily can be set up to provide a phone handset in any room you want.

Virtually any house can be networked easily and cheaply by beginners. I see no extra rent or value ad.

I repeat - focus on what adds value & increases the rent, not on the doodads you would want in your own home! :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[Kristine..]

Hi Geoff

Remember, you polished the floors yourself - the commercial cost is about $25 sq metre, and you are renting small one bedroom flats.

My 'exec' house appeals to families with children, and short people love to sit and roll on the floor while playing or watching TV. The ground floor is concrete anyway, so the ground floor is no contest.

As I said, I carpeted the area as described at the 'medical centre' for slightly less than $1,000 including underlay. We are moving into winter, and the carpet insulates the house whereas polished boards are a look, not a comfort.

I have lived with polished Tas Oak floors. Add three children + four cats + two adults = an impossible job to keep an expanse of boards looking clean, never mind the noise or the chill factor in winter.

But as with all things, there is not such thing as right or wrong, simply a matter of opinion. Most dwellings have a mix of hard and soft floor coverings - after all, bathroom and kitchen carpet is very popular in UK but I have never come across it here. Fluffy toilet seat covers are some peoples idea of style (fluffy dice hanging from the rear view mirror look good, too!) while other people would prefer a stark warehouse look with not an ornament in sight.

All I know is, I carpet every house throughout the bed, hall & living areas and I have never had a vacancy, never had a tenant not renew a lease (the shortest stay has been two years), never had problems with staining or other maintenance issues, just a decent steam clean between occupants and away we go again. Now that I think of it, I recarpeted the 3BR, hall, L shaped lounge / dining 1974 Mission Brown house last September and that cost $1,650 over the existing underlay. Modernised the look of the place in one day - amazing!


Anyway, Geoff, you know you are my hero - I am burning with desire for a block of flats - I am suffering a bad case of Class 2 envy!!

cheers

Kristine

[Patosan]

Wow there's plenty of good advice here,

choose a nice colour and a
nice looking laminated benchtop. I wouldn't use a shiny imitation granite
because you can see the scratches on it.
I have generally preferred the non-gloss laminate ... gives a warmer feeling. But wouldn't it also show scratches ?


The cost will not be much. Run some CAT5 cable between a cental point (garage?) and all rooms. do the same with phone cable.
BV, really to ALL rooms ?
What is the situation with cable tv ? Is there cable or something I can run within the buildings or to some point outside for connecting later in the future ? Is it expensive ? If so I'll probably not bother.

And don’t forget the towel rails. Doubles, properly fitted to the studs. A rail for each potential bed plus a couple extra. Can you reach the rails from the shower stall? The bath? Is the hand-towel accessible to the vanity? Make sure the ducted heating extends to a vent in the bathroom.
Kristine, you think of everything ... so much detail.
I think most of these points are great, though probably not going to be noticed by the tenant till their already in. They are cheap so worth doing to keep the tenant happy at a cheap cost.

I had ducted heating in my old bathroom - it is good. I've been recommended to instal those IXL tastic heater and exhaust. I know I know they are energy gurglers but I think people like to use them.
My ducted split system is going to 5 points and I assume one is not in the bathroom.

I personally prefer carpet for all the reasons Kristine mentioned but I'll be putting Tas Oak in the usual places. I think most tenants expect it now in nice IP. Searching thru the sale listings carpet in the living areas is rare as hens teeth now.

Ta everyone this has been great.

[manny]

Patosan,

In terms of IXL tastic lamp/fan for bathrooms, I have one in this house I'm in & prefer the ducted heating vent into the bathroom that I had in my last home, next house I build to live in (PPOR) I'm definately going back to a heating vent into the bathroom, it could just be my preference... my outlaws have gone the other direction & installed both an IXL & a heating vent to the bathroom, which I think is an overkill (as they also have a skylight in the bath, just too much going on in the room)...

Cheers,

Manny.

[Aceyducey]

Manny, the Skytube isn't new at all. I've seen it around for several years & have rejected it's use in a number of properties due to the size (too small).

BTW you should credit the extract: Property Insider 13th May, 2004 - ©Copyright (c) Quartile Research

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[manny]

Hi Acey,

thanx for bringing up the "reference", just read their "terms & conditions of use" of such information & just deleted it...

Cheers,

Manny.

[Ecogirl]

Hi Ecogirl,

good to get some other opinions, do u like mirrored wardrobe doors in all rooms? or just the master?

Manny.

Manny
I would only put the mirrored sliding doors in the master bedroom - not good for kids rooms because they could get smashed.

Kristine, I understand about the feng shui and 'kinky' factor but I feel the mirrored doors make the bedroom feel bigger and they reflect light as well which is useful for small master bedrooms. I don't have a problem cleaning them and they're great because I'm short and generally the people that install mirrors install it for the rest of the population....I think your suggestions are great as long as there is enough room to be able to see yourself in the mirror behind the door....after all we do cater for the masses

Ecogirl

[Patosan]

My master BR all have WIR --> no doors
I was considering them for the other (kids) rooms, though at the moment I think I'll vote against them. I like Kristine's idea of having a long mirror on the back of the room doors though

Or should WIR have doors ?
I'd never thought about it ... just assumed they didn't.

[manny]

Not all WIRs have doors, have seen some that don't, but the majority do have a door(s)...

Manny.

[geoffw]

Kristine,

While you've provided an excellent reply, and a lot of good points- I'm not really trying to diminish what you say in any way. It's only in minor points that I don'ty quite agree.

I responded to I have found it really cheap and easy to replace the carpets, but have left the grip strips and underfelt in place. I recently did the ‘medical centre’ in berber and underfelt in both bedrooms, the passage, lounge and rumpus room for less than $1,000. I couldn’t have sanded & polished the floors for that, and the house is quieter & warmer which equals greater comfort for the occupant.But then Remember, you polished the floors yourself - the commercial cost is about $25 sq metre :D

We had carpet in the family room in our PPOR- something which MrsW strongly disagreed with- it ended up coming out- we replaced it with vinyl- I hadn't heard of floating floors then. Food on carpet is not just a quick sweep.

My polishing of floors was based on PM's assessment of what tenants in my area, for my standard of accommodation, wanted. (and btw they do have mirrored BIRs).

You have a good enough knowledge of your tenants' needs. But a PM is probably a very good person to talk to for those of us who don't know our market as well. I'd suggest a PM who has been around for a while should be a good starting point for determining what would work well.

[Kristine..]

You have a good enough knowledge of your tenants' needs. But a PM is probably a very good person to talk to for those of us who don't know our market as well. I'd suggest a PM who has been around for a while should be a good starting point for determining what would work well.

Yes, Geoff, exactly!

Different types of accommodation, different areas, different tenant market = most appropriate style, finish and presentation.

After all, tenants in a cheap one bedroom flat are not going to expect a dishwasher. A double bowl sink (instead of a single bowl) would be considered up-market.

Hard flooring is the most appropriate for some types of housing (I was going to do edgy warehouse for the rear of Myrtle Cottage which is romantic and feminine) while for family accommodation carpet would suit most families.

As I said before, there is not such thing as right or wrong, and while beauty is in the eye of the beholder I learnt a painful lesson myself with Myrtle Cottage: Oooh and aah does not necessarily equate to $.

If laying tongue and groove Tasmanian Oak is going to cost more than compressed particle board flooring covered with carpet, is the timber floor going to produce $ for $ a better return than the carpet?

Remember, the builder will have quoted on particle board. Tongue and groove will cost significantly more. The whole construction process is different and involves different staging of the work. We are discussing new construction here, not renovation of existing buildings.

The carpet is cheap to install and cheap to replace - in fact, so cheap it is almost (but not quite) disposable every five years. I am not talking about carpet in the meals area although I have seen 'spec' houses with carpet everywhere. That tells us how cheap it is. Timber flooring will need resanding and resealing each +/- five years particularly if the tenants are 'active' people - charis, high heel shoes, children etc.

At the child care centre the children wore through new vinyl covering in less than two years (cheap stuff) which I then replaced with commercial grade vinyl which was guaranteed for 10 years.

Timber floors are not maintenance free. As I mentioned, we had the floors sanded and resealed in the kitchen meals area plus another top coat throughout the rest of the house. This maintenance cost us more than $2,000 in 1994.

Patosan is surveying opinion. None of us are being critical of each other, just offering snippets of our experiences personally and as landlords.

I have short arms and long pockets. Having experienced high maintenance cost and inconvenience (no entry to the house for three days while the polish was curing) I now look past the glamour and examine the bottom line in minute detail.

The area Patosan will be building the townhouses is perhaps a different market to the Dandenong foothills. Maybe we have different priorities here. After all, each suburb attracts different people and when I was working in Box Hill I had a resale of an Australand townhouse. It was carpeted to the front door when really it should have had a tiled 'passage' strip through to the 'real' passage.

The ground floor was concrete. Comments were evenly divided (for those who even noticed) about how nice the carpet was and / or how 'they' should have tiled the entire area.

Anyway, Patosan has indicated that he is going with timber flooring in the living areas so it will be interesting to see if the return justifies the choice.

Happy cheers

Kristine

[Lplate]

We have good quality Italian tiles in large areas of our PPOR and although they are very hard and everyone comments on the beautiful look (really warm glow when cleaned), the tiles have been a real bugbear:
- cold
- lounge chairs with wheels can break tile edges (hard tiles, but lounge chairs put a lot of force down on wheels) and yes I did put special cups under the castors but they get moved
- anything dropped, breaks
- fluff or debris shows easily (not because of the colour of the tiles)
- noise, although large rugs help.

Good quality vinyl tiles are great in the kitchen, aisle and breakfast areas of a PPOR, but in rentals I'm not so sure - we keep getting damage from fridges etc being moved (and we have used commercial grade)

Our formula is carpet everywhere in rentals except for tiled kitchen and maybe a bit in the entry with a rug over (and tiled wet areas of course).

[BV]

Patosan,
Lots of good advise here, everyone likes you...
Pls see my comments in bold.
Wow there's plenty of good advice here,
I have generally preferred the non-gloss laminate ... gives a warmer feeling. But wouldn't it also show scratches ?

THE BENCHTOPS ARE TOUGH AND DON'T SCRATCH EASILY
I HAVE ONLY SEEN THE GLOSSY SURFACE SHOWING EVEN MINOR SCRATCHES
I GUESS DUE TO THE GLARE.
IF YOU CHOOSE A NICE LOOKING NON GLOSS BENCHTOP WITH A DESIGN OR
MORE THAN 1 COLOUR YOU WOULDNT SEE SCRATCHES

BV, really to ALL rooms ?
What is the situation with cable tv ? Is there cable or something I can run within the buildings or to some point outside for connecting later in the future ? Is it expensive ? If so I'll probably not bother.

CABLE TV IS GOOD AND THE SAME LINE CAN ALSO PROVIDE YOU WITH
FAST INTERNET AT AN ADDED COST. THERE IS FREE INSTALLATION BUT ITS USUALLY LINKED TO A CONTRACT AND IT COSTS MONEY. BETTER TO LET THE TENANT SIGN UP FOR THE FREE INSTALL.
ALL INTERNET CONNECTIONS IE CABLE INTERNET, ADSL ETC WILL GIVE
YOU ACCESS AT 1 POINT.TO SHARE THAT CONNECTION WITH OTHER
COMPUTERS, YOU WILL NEED SOME TYPE OF CONNECTION VIA AN ETHERNET ROUTER AND WIRING OR A WIRELLESS LINK TO THE ROOMS YOU
WANT COVERED. WIRELESS LINKS HAVE GOT CHEAPER BUT THEY ARE NOT AS FAST AS WIRE AND THERE ARE ALSO RADIATION AND RELIABILITY ISSUES. THE GARAGE IS A GOOD LOCATION FOR A DISTRIBUTION BOX.
ANYWAY, SEND ME A PM LATER IF YOU WANT MORE DETAIL
CHEERS