A car question!

[Jacque]

OK OK I know this isn't really the place, but after doing some searches on this in the Aussie car forums, I couldn't find an answer! So, hoping you car buffs can help me :)

After just purchasing a new car with leather seats the car dealer (Toyota) told us that, for $450 extra (!!!!!!) we could have a protectant applied on the leather that would repel stains, prevent fading, cracking etc. Being ever skeptical and outraged at the price, I said thanks but no thanks.
Reason being is that our other car has leather too, and after three yrs, it's as good as the day we bought it (even with 3 kids and a dog in the back) so I can't see the point.
However, because this leather is a much lighter colour, I'm tempted to find out if there is indeed a product I can buy to protect it. Does anyone know of one or has used one successfully?

Thanks in advance

[Rolf Latham]

Hiya Jax

Id say go and see a leather specialist like a motor trimmer or a saddle maker and they may tell you to leave it alone or at worst use some form of wax or light protectant oil.

We used to have a Benz with MB-Tex (fake leather) - you could use a metho texta on that stuff and get it off

Ditched the Ford ey :O)

ta
rolf

[Thommo]

OK OK I know this isn't really the place, but after doing some searches on this in the Aussie car forums, I couldn't find an answer! So, hoping you car buffs can help me :)

After just purchasing a new car with leather seats the car dealer (Toyota) told us that, for $450 extra (!!!!!!) we could have a protectant applied on the leather that would repel stains, prevent fading, cracking etc. Being ever skeptical and outraged at the price, I said thanks but no thanks.
Reason being is that our other car has leather too, and after three yrs, it's as good as the day we bought it (even with 3 kids and a dog in the back) so I can't see the point.
However, because this leather is a much lighter colour, I'm tempted to find out if there is indeed a product I can buy to protect it. Does anyone know of one or has used one successfully?

Thanks in advance
I wouldn't pay the man the money.

Leather is sold as expensive but low maintenance so take them at face value. My understanding is that it just needs to be clean ie a rub with soap and water to remove the protiens we deposit and to remove abrasive substances. I am the proud owner of a Honda with leather seats and worried about their care and feeding but after the mongrel dog spewed on them a couple of times I realised just how simple it is. A wipe and spray and the car is back to normal. There must be some others on the forum who can appreciate this with near human passengers.

In the end I opted for sheep skin covers with no seams not to allow dust underneath them.

Thommo

Forgot to mention: The seat covers only cost $160/pr

[Peter 14.7]

The Alfa has tan momo leather and is parked in the street all day so full sun. 18 months later it is AOK. I used Mc Guires (once) to keep it supple but it does not really need it.

A little grubby but will try the soap and water and report back.

OA I would not spend the money.

Peter

[Jas]

saddle soap. It's great for cleaning leather.

Jas

[Garry K]

saddle soap. It's great for cleaning leather.

Jas

Jas - where do you get it?

I gather it's a horsy thing?

GarryK

[Jas]

Yeah it is a horsy thing. I used it a lot when I was in the SCA. I got it from shoe stores, hardware stores and horsy stores.

the soap - http://www.waproo.com.au/products/saddlesoap.htm


Jas

[Mr Ed]

Jacque,

I spent some time in the car trade in management and let me tell you that the money is made from aftermarket products. New cars if it wasn’t for hold back and After Market they wouldn’t be worth selling.
To give you an idea on margins a “Full Pack” as it was described, Paint, Fabric/leather, rust and tint was sold for $1495. Cost was less than $400. I know of a Major dealer (obviously can’t name here) that only applied it to one in two cars except they would always apply the tint.

So hard to prove that it hasn’t been done.

As for the effectiveness, mmmm questionable. I’ve seen cars that live in the sun and are A Ok. See kids give them curry and after a good detail look brand new.

Me I think take your $450, Get a baby sitter, shout yourself dinner with your spouse and a nice bottle of wine and have a nice time.

FWIW I have a ’98 Grande with leather and 190 000km and the buttons on my backside pockets have done the most damage to the seats

[Jacque]

Jacque,

I spent some time in the car trade in management and let me tell you that the money is made from aftermarket products. New cars if it wasn’t for hold back and After Market they wouldn’t be worth selling.
To give you an idea on margins a “Full Pack” as it was described, Paint, Fabric/leather, rust and tint was sold for $1495. Cost was less than $400. I know of a Major dealer (obviously can’t name here) that only applied it to one in two cars except they would always apply the tint.

So hard to prove that it hasn’t been done.

As for the effectiveness, mmmm questionable. I’ve seen cars that live in the sun and are A Ok. See kids give them curry and after a good detail look brand new.

Me I think take your $450, Get a baby sitter, shout yourself dinner with your spouse and a nice bottle of wine and have a nice time.

FWIW I have a ’98 Grande with leather and 190 000km and the buttons on my backside pockets have done the most damage to the seats

Thanks so much MrEd and all others :)
That's what I love about this forum- there's always someone with knowledge willing to help!!!!
I'm glad my suspicions weren't unfounded. I thought $450 was a bit steep! Have since found several products that claim to do the same thing (protect) so will look into them. Toughseal is one, Scotchguard also make a specific leather protectant that is also supposed to be quite good.
Am very excited about the car- just thinking now of selling the kids to keep it extra clean :)
And, yes I am selling the Ford (1995) and the Honda CRV (2001) - anyone interested in more details, let me know- we can do a good price :)
Thanks again all......

[ChrisOs]

Hi all!

I found this thread of real value, because I have just signed up to buy a three year old Mazda Tribute that has leather seats. The sales person was a joy to do business with - not at all pushy and he let me buy the car instead of doing the hard sell and turning me off. Anyway, he suggested an extended warranty for three years at a cost of $795, which I said I would think about. After he had finished with us, we were greeted by the Customer Relationship Manager. She then went into the hard-sell for the treating of the leather, window tinting, the whole bit. Again, I said I would think about it. A 20% discount was offered if we sign up before we take delivery - standard ploy I imagine.

After reading this thread, I am not going to take up the leather preservation offer and do not see a great need for window tinting, but was wondering what peoples' opinions are of extended warranties? I don't know much about them and the dealership could not provide anything for me to read. I asked for a brochure (the sales person said the finance guy would have one). The finance guy said, "well, it costs $795 for three years and that's it .. there is no brochure". My gut feeling is to give it a miss.

Opinions please?

Thanks,
Chris.

[keithj]

After reading this thread, I am not going to take up the leather preservation offer and do not see a great need for window tinting, but was wondering what peoples' opinions are of extended warranties? I don't know much about them and the dealership could not provide anything for me to read. I asked for a brochure (the sales person said the finance guy would have one). The finance guy said, "well, it costs $795 for three years and that's it .. there is no brochure". My gut feeling is to give it a miss.

Opinions please?
The extended warranty I bought for $500 was a rip off. A warranty condition was that it had to be serviced with them regularly, however they guaranteed that each service would cost no more than $180. Great I thought.

First service, I got a call - brake pads need replacing, & various other things - total cost > $1000 'the extended warranty would be void unless all these things are replaced, Sir'.

A service at my local garage costs about $150. They only replace parts when necessary, not as a matter of course, and they don't insist on using overpriced original parts, generic will do exactly the same job for less than 1/2 the price.

[geoffw]

I'm with Keith.

I've had a vehicle for nearly three years with extended warranty. I've done all the standard recommended services- but there has not been one single instance where the warranty has covered one cent.

The recommended services (every 10K- there's been 8 now) have ranged between $500 to $1,000 and slightly above.

There's been a cross border issue here too. The vehicle is in Queanbeyan, so rego is NSW- so I need to get rego inspections at a different place from where I get the service.

In my last service, a week ago, my car came back the worst it's ever been performance wise.

Forget the warranty.

[Thommo]

Log book servicing and extended warranty are a hangover of a bygone era but a continuation of the attitude of the manufactures/dealers dating back to Henry Ford. I can't quote him but he meant something like "You may get the car cheap but the parts will cost you."

A perfect example of this is the $2,000 car wash oops dealer delivery fee.

Because I keep my work van for a number of years it goes onto a mininum maintenance program from new ie oil changes when needed (at home, $30 oil). A two yearly replacement of radiator coolant and break fluid, and whatever the auto needs and the rest is "on failure". Must add a note of caution here. I'm sensitive to my car (can pick up on things early) and know more about them than average so would normally advise others to use a local mechanic. There are some out there who don't take advantage of women and accountants, you've just got to find them. I missed the timing belt. Don't ignore that because if it breaks you stop dead, possibly with bent valve stems. Strangely, I think the multi-valve engines are less likely to get bent valves than the older 2 vale engines. Use the timimg belt service to do other preventative maintenance. Get a quote!

A note on tuning: All cars today have electronic ignition systems which means that if the car was in correct tune when you got it will still be so until your timing belt needs changing. The spark plugs are so good today, aided by unleaded fuel, that they may last that long too but I do not recommend that you try. Certaily replace them the moment you think the car is burning extra fuel or running even a little rough. If you don't you may damage the plug leads and your problems may persist after new plugs are fitted and you will have the added cost of finding the problem and plug lead sets are expensive.

Happy motoring

Thommo.

[Mr Ed]

Chis,

There are Extended Warranties, and there are Extended Warranties. Most warranties are underwritten by insurance companies. Mitsubishi’s warranty used to be called diamond care, which was underwritten by Swan which was a division of CGU, now all wrapped up by NRMA I believe. (I could be wrong here as have been out of the industry for a while)

The dealer has to call a claims dept to get authorisation and you can guess what they would say…

The only warranty that is any good out there is the Toyota Extra Care Warranty 6 years 160 000Km one for new Toyota’s or Toyota’s up to 3 years of ages and less than 100 000Km. The reason being is that it is administrated by Toyota and is a pure factory warranty. Yes the services are a bit dearer if done by the dealer (quite a bit) but you have recourse if it fails between services, see if your greasy Joe will honour that.
Because it’s a true factory warranty you can have your car serviced where “you” want to just has to be done as per the book which of course you would.

Even Greasy Joes place

All other warranties on the market give a miss, (Unless things have changed)

Chris ask them who underwrites the warranty or ask to take home a “Warranty Contract” tell them you’ll return it of course, have a read and let us know what it says.

[ChrisOs]

Thanks for the responses Keith, Geoff, Thommo and Ed.

I may give the dealer a call today and see what the warranty contract says, just out of curiosity. Based on your feedback, it seems to be a "no-brainer" and I won't be paying $795 for something of such little value.

Thanks again guys.

Regards,
Chris.

[Twitch]

I looked into the leather seat care issue when I bought my car 2 years ago. I found a forum with a whole lot of OCD (I mean that in the nicest possible way) car owners at www.volvoxc.com/forums that care a lot about this and other car care issues, eg who would have thought car washing was so complex. Have a search in the "2001+ XC70 (V70XC)" forum using the terms "leather care" and you will turn up a whole host of info. Unfortunately not all the products mentioned are available locally though.

In the end I spent $70 on the volvo branded leather care kit and I clean and condition the seats every 12 months. Takes less than an hour. The kit will last me at least 6 or so years given how much I've used so far.

BTW, there is no magic treatment for leather car seats that mean you can set and forget. Car interiors get hot and the leather needs regular conditioning otherwise they will wear prematurely.

Bottom line, do it yourself every year, don't pay anyone to do such a simple and cheap task.

[ChrisOs]

I obtained a copy of the "Vehicle Protection Plan" from the sales person last night and had to read it a couple of times before I found the loop hole. The list of covered items is extensive (e.g. engine, cooling system, fuel system, transmission), in fact so extensive that I couldn't find fault with it. All these components and more are covered in the event of a mechancial failure.

The definition of a mechanical failure is "the failure of a covered component, excluding failure due to normal wear" and normal wear is defined as "the gradual reduction in operating performance of a covered component, having regard to the age of the vehicle and the total distance the vehicle has travelled".

So I reckon that if any component fails, the insurer could say "that was due to normal wear" and deny the claim. I may be wrong, but I will take my chances.

Regards,
Chris.

[geoffw]

That is exactly what has happened to me. Everything has been wear and tear.

[Mr Ed]

Chris,

Wear and Tear is their out all the time. They deliberatly list all the things covered to make it look like a lot, but do they cover seals and gaskets? That is the clincher, if they do it's comprehensive. Only factory covers seals and Gaskets BTW.

Also who is the underwritter/administer, usually on the back of the front page?

[ChrisOs]

Hi Ed,

Swann Insurance are shown as the “warranty administrator”.

The copy of the Vehicle Protection Plan booklet they gave me is used (i.e. the sections that must be filled out in relation to the vehicle, owner etc are missing).

It is interesting to note that there are 14 sections listed under Covered Components. Section 1 (Engine) and Section 14 (Seals and Gaskets) have been circled in pen by someone. Not sure why. I may be reading something into that which is not there.

Section 14 Seals and Gaskets says: Engine cylinder head gasket
Seals and gaskets (other than those listed above as a covered component) are covered only when necessary in relation to a mechanical failure covered by the warranty.

The only seals and gaskets I can see mentioned in Sections 1 to 13 are:
Transmission seals and O rings. There are no others mentioned.

Regards,
Chris.

[Peter 14.7]

Hi All

Again Somersoft is saving me money.

Owning an Alfa I had considered buying the extended warranty. Two years for $1500 plus a mandatory timing belt change at $1000. From the reports above it appears it is a waste of $.

BTW Not surprised that Toyota offers the best considering their cars hardly ever break down.

An Aussie (I think) had brought out a very plain but extremely comprehensive guide of every car, model and years avaible in Australia called the "Lemon Guide" or something like that. It is available at large newsagents and costs around $8.

You can look up your car or a car you are considering. It is very witty and appears to be totally unbiased. If anything a little overly critical.

For instance it describes there being only two types of satisfied Alfa owners “those with new cars under warranty and those with really old cars where all the problems have been fixed!” :(

His comments on an Alfa 147 was very correct to the faults I have experienced (sunvisor, selespeed dropouts to name a few) however I hope his summary rating of “avoid like the plague” does not come to pass. :eek:

FYI the best five cars included the Lexus Range and Toyota Hilux.

Regards Peter 147

[Mr Ed]

Chris,

I know the warranty you are looking at well. My advice is give it a miss. If you really want a warranty pop along to the local Toyota Dealer and see them about buying the warranty for "Non Toyotas" it will cost you about $1800 and will start when your 3 months 5000 km warranty from the dealer finishes but its a good warranty.

They arn't supposed to do it but if you be nice they will ablige, see the F&I guy there.

The question is will you spend $1800 on repairs in the 3 years or 60000 Km my guess not.

Hope this has been of help.

[ChrisOs]

Thanks Ed.
There is nothing quite as reliable as experience and inside knowledge :)

I will give the warranty a miss.

Regards,
Chris.

[Thommo]

The question is will you spend $1800 on repairs in the 3 years or 60000 Km my guess not.
For most people that is likely to be a big NO.

I share Ed's respect for Toyotas but will expand that generally to Japanese cars. Not so keen on Korean, especially Kia, but Hyundi has improved to the point it matches Toyota and Honda in the US on warranty work (not?) needed.

My 6yr old car with 100K on it has not had one cent spent on repairs. I expect to be able to say the same of my van too.

Anyone want to start a poll to see if there are problem cars out there? I think the result would be for most to be very happy.

Thommo