Sim: why the Removal of derivex Product Line thread and "troll" reason...

[Cat09Tails]

Woulkd you mind giving me an answer to this, Sim? My god- whatever happened to people being able to speak on property-related topics? Was there something defamatory in the responses or questions? Did you run the deletion by all the Moderators before you deleted it, as per your ss policy?

Cat

(edited by me because I typo'ed a word...)

[qaz]

If you have a concern over the way this forum is being run it should be posted in the "help and feedback" section. As for what Sim is doing, from what I know, he's doing it for legal reasons.

[Cat09Tails]

There was nothing defamatory in the post or in the replies. The word "troll" is hardly a legal reason to close down a thread... although it is an *easy* reason to shut down discussion, I suppose. from what I can see, sim has closed down a number of threads relating to Derivex. People will still continue to ask the questions, however. Some still value democracy.

Cat

[Monopoly]

Here you go Cat,

Here is a forum in which both IFHL/Derivex (agent/management staff) have contributed, and that may be of interest to you. :D

http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/newposts/1478/topic1478410.shtm

Cheers,

Jo

[Sim]

Wikipedia: troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)

Cat, your posts, while put forward as "due dilligence", are actually (in my opinion), nothing more than baseless speculation.

If you have proof that a company is doing something wrong, then by all means, post it here for us all to learn from. Do not go posting speculation that could be considered defamatory or libellous. Phrasing your speculation as questions is what I consider to be trolling - soliciting a response which is likely to be controversial.

There's been way too much (potentially harmful) speculation about these topics, and not enough fact.

[Sim]

Don't use our forum for your personal debates with a third party company. Please contact them directly to voice your concerns or to ask them questions.

[Monopoly]

Sim,

I do agree that we all need to be mindful of making defamatory comments, however, I don't see the harm in even "speculative" discussion as long as no individual is defamed in any way.

{snip}

I fully appreciate your position in maintaining order, although I don't always agree with your reasons for deleting/closing a thread, but as I said, as long as it contains no defamatory comments, is there really any harm done???

Cheers,

Jo

[nat r]

Seeing we al love dictionary definitions why not check this one:


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=30717&dict=CALD

[Cat09Tails]

Interesting that we are told to be civil in a forum, and yet sim is able to call me a troll- and shut the gate on discussion... what is calling someone a troll if not uncivil? Practice what you preach, sim.

Sim said:

"Do not go posting speculation that could be considered defamatory or libellous."

There has been nothing speculative about my posts. I quoted the Derivex website, and asked questions about their products. We have been told that IF homeloans are not currently having applications accepted, but then the website NOW says there are a number of products available- nothing speculative about that.

And yes, it is dreadful to question the credibility of a company such as Derivex- that makes me a troll... but to have a jab at someone like Jenman- well, that just makes us one of the gang, right? Such hypocrisy!

Sim, I know how to ask questions, and I know how to investigate- I have no clue about finances- others have much more idea about such things- so I don't comment on the maths of it. I am a researcher for a living, however- and deconstructing text is what I can do- the questions I asked, and comments i made, i maintain, were reasonable.

Why not just say "there shall be no more discussion on derivex", and say what you really think, rather than making personal insults to me, when you ask Forum members not to engage in such behaviour between themselves.

Cat

[Sim]

as long as it contains no defamatory comments, is there really any harm done???

That's kind of my point Monopoly ... in our opinion, some of these threads are becoming potentially defamatory in nature, so in order to protect ourselves, we choose to take a tough stance on such things. The defamation issue is not the only one at play here though. We're seeing all the usual internet problems in these threads - flames, trolls, personal attacks, etc etc.

As usualy, it's only a couple of people who complain about the way we run our forum. All I can suggest is that if you really can't cope, there are plenty of other forums to go post in, and there's always the free-for-all brawling on USENET if that's what you are really after.

[Sim]

Seeing we al love dictionary definitions why not check this one:

What's your point nat_r ?

[nat r]

I don't always have a point, but I do live under a bridge and wear a funny hat.

[Sim]

Get over it Cat. I'm the administrator, it is up to me and the moderators to keep order as we see fit. If you don't like it, feel free to go away.

[Cat09Tails]

hehe, Sim- I merely asked for consistency- you don't want insults on the forum- then don't do them yourself; if you want an edgy forum with critique and intelligence, then don't criticise it when you get it.

And bullying by passive-aggression (you don't like it here, then leave) is lame. Asking why a thread was shut down is normal behaviour- you don't need to lose the plot over it. I don't operate via intimidation, sim. I just like asking questions- ya know- what's it called? oh yeah, trolling...

Cat

[Monopoly]

As usualy, it's only a couple of people who complain about the way we run our forum. All I can suggest is that if you really can't cope, there are plenty of other forums to go post in, and there's always the free-for-all brawling on USENET if that's what you are really after.
Who said anything about "coping"??? I said it was "frustrating" but just because the subject is taboo doesn't mean life support will be cut off; I'll survive, promise. :D Point taken boss man!! ;)

Cheers,

Jo

[Sim]

Honestly Monopoly, it's not that the subject is taboo ... it's just that we've seen the same old threads take on exactly the same old arguments, very few of which seem to be based on fact. The threads end up as flame wars, and that means more work for us - which we don't appreciate.

[quintets]

I don't always have a point, but I do live under a bridge and wear a funny hat.
I have this amusing picture of you under the Harbour Bridge with a funny hat, a little black dress and a pair of slingbacks over your shoulder. Don't know why. :cool: :cool:

Haven't Derivex and its managemnt got full right of reply on here if they choose to take it up?? And by right or reply I mean calm, useful & logical discsusion on how and why the business works.

Nat_R,

I'm wondering whether Cat09tails asked the question directly to Derivex before posting an "open letter" to Derivex. If someone asked me some pointed questions in an open forum without first approaching me privately, I would consider that a question not sent in good faith. It makes me think I'm being set up.

Cat,

Did you ask Derivex your questions and wait a while for an answer before asking here? Send me a PM if you wish.

[Sim]

And bullying by passive-aggression (you don't like it here, then leave) is lame. Asking why a thread was shut down is normal behaviour- you don't need to lose the plot over it. I don't operate via intimidation, sim. I just like asking questions- ya know- what's it called? oh yeah, trolling...

Troll is not meant to be a personal insult - it is a word in common internet usage to describe the nature of a post - as per the definition I linked to.

Asking why a thread was shut down in a public forum and in the process being told I'm a bully, passive-aggressive, undemocratic, uncivil, a hypocrit, insulting, critical, and that I've lost the plot ... now how do you think I'm going to respond to that ? I think that's more akin to bullying, myself.

There is such a thing as Private Messages, or Email available to you. If you have a question about what I've done to a post or thread, you could try approaching me offline so I can have a chance to explain it to you ... rather than airing your grievances in public and by PMs to other moderators.

[Monopoly]

Troll is not meant to be a personal insult - it is a word in common internet usage to describe the nature of a post - as per the definition I linked to.
Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but....

Hey Cat,

when one of my posts was deleted with "Troll" given as the explanation I was flabbergasted to say the least!!! Horrified, I PMed Sim to ask why. I have since become somewhat more "net jargon" savvy and terms like "troll" and "blogging" aren't what I thought them originally to be!!! :o

Cheers,

Jo

[Cat09Tails]

Actually, Sim- I did think I sent you a message- immediately after the thread was deleted- to ask why it was deleted- but I checked my outbox, and I hadn't :(

We are all accountable. I have a laissez-faire approach (elsewhere) to deleting threads and locking threads, because I think most topics can be useful. NB in my first thread on Derivex Mgmt, I did say if people started to get personal, then the thread would be locked- and I was hoping people wouldn't do that- so we could keep the discussion open.

Oh, sim- I was HARDLY harrassing you- you have the ability to shut down every post, to delete me, to ban me- whatever. Jesus, it's a discussion board- a thread was deleted- as have many been- and I was called a troll- of course I was annoyed. And management of a discussion board have a right to be questioned- we all do.

Cat

[quintets]

* The old Mgmt team and the new mgmt team... if i was to ask questions of the company, Jirek- to whom would I address them/ last week's team or this week's? And why are none of these people able to be found on the web? Given their credentials on the website, I thought they might have been all over the place.

Cat
Executive management teams report to the CEO. Ask him. Better yet, use snail mail. Make it handwritten letter to be more personal. Take a calligraphy course and learn chancery to make it super personal. :)

But seriously, Cat, what's the point?

Most detractors have an issue with the viability of the business model, the terms and conditions, and/or the pro forma contract. If you have problems with all that, then what useful additional information would you gain by looking at inconsistencies of the website?

The only reason you would be concerned with the websites is if you think the business model, t&cs and contract is okay. Which I suspect you don't.

No dramas. Just an observation.

[nat r]

IMHO labelling a message with the response "Troll" just because it asks a tough question or expresses a contra view is not really on the money.

Also I live in Brissy ...so I would be hiding under the Storey Bridge and I guess my reference to the fact that Trolls live under bridges and wear funny hats in classic literature was lost on everyone here.

[Peter 14.7]

Dear All

As stated before I have no position on IFHL. If they work time will tell. If not why worry. End of Story.

I do have a position on Somersoft and Sim.

I am a moderator because I believe this forum provides sensible, balanced and unbiased opinion in a professional manner. It takes time to be moderator but I appreciate the learning I gain so I provide that time free of charge.

However the time I spend is nothing compared to the efforts of Sim in keeping Somersoft running, user friendly, stopping attacks from viruses, registering people, helping those with faults, you name it.

As well Jan Somers actually loses money in providing this forum. The Somers never promote via pop ups their books or software, they don't charge, they don't send spam to be on, etc....

Instead they fund the education of us all unconditional. But in today’s world they take on a level of liability for comments made here. How much? I don’t know but I do know when someone can sue a building owner when a cafe provides a chair that is deemed to be unsafe and that someone falls on their butt and sues for loses their libido and wins 100’sof thousands of $ (actual case Court in NSW) , I know I would not be doing it.

So in the end, if to maintain Somersoft as it is, free for all to come and to go, Sim and the Somers need to close a few posts (which a as percentage would have be less than 1% of all traffic) so I can be educated and learn for nothing. That’s ok by me and should be ok for everyone else.

If is a free web and a free site but has rules set by those who run it. If you don’t like that arrangement, exercise your freedom and refuse to visit.

Save your time, Sim's time and the Somers money.

Peter 147

[Sim]

You're missing the point nat_r ... the post was labelled a troll because A) it was asking a question that nobody here could reasonably answer, B) this is not the place to be asking Derivex questions - these should be asked of Derivex directly, and C) given points A & B, the only other conclusion is that the post was made to stir up emotion, to further speculation without fact, and/or to fan the flames about the topic.

There are plenty of tough questions that can be asked - but you have to ask them in the correct "forum" (ie the correct venue) - and I'm telling you all, for this subject, this is not it.

Likewise, expressing a contra view (as you put it), is quite acceptable and frequently exercised here, but the views expressed in this case have been little more than accusations of impropriety by the company in question, without a basis in fact.

I challenge you; if you have a question about Derivex - contact them, and report your findings to us; if you have a concern about Derivex - contact them, or the relevant authorities, and report your findings to us. But do not go dredging for slime on this company (or any other for that matter) on our forum - for that is what it looks like some of you have been doing.

[Cat09Tails]

The point Jireh, is that investing money is not all about numbers- sometimes, it's about people. A certainb real estate bus tour operator, was mentioned in another forum, and after some research was undertaken, it was shown that the business operator had been to jail for a large number of years, for fraudulent dealings with pensioners. He'd been mentioned in parliament, and this was documented.

The info provided, allowed people to make a more informed decision about the operations of the company. Researching companies and people, is something that is not unknown on forums. Many people check out ASIC and FIDO to find out some background information. Finding out, for example, that someone is banned from running a company- just as an example- and publishing that- linked to FIDO- would be a fairly normal thing, I would htink, and would certainly not have one - or a forum- liable to legal challenge.

Economic modelling is one thing- people are another. Inconsistencies in provision of information is merely another thing to take note of. It's just a part of research before one might invest money.

Anyway, I'm pleased that there has been fairly extensive dialogue on Derivex- lots of different perspectives and information provided :)

Cat

[Aceyducey]

Cat & Nat - if you don't like the way this forum is run, go elsewhere.

If you have evidence of wrong-doing by a company, go to the police.

Nat - BTW your 'classic literature' reference is incorrect. Trolls 'classically' never wore hats & the bridge analogy dates from the late 17th century. Prior to that trolls were regarded very differently. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

Cat - Pot calling kettle black (and the kettle isn't black anyway).

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[Thommo]

Any one who looked like a troll, sounded like a troll and ond posted only on D.... threads be shot like a troll?

Sounds fair to me :D

[Wazza007]

Guys all I can say is I had plenty of questions about Derivex so I made an appointment and went to the office and sat with them last week.

They answered all my questions and I have since followed up with more questions over the phone this week. If you have questions I can only suggest you go and ask them in person

Ive enjoyed reading all the posts on this subject and I have agreed when Sim has stepped in as the threads all end up moving the same way. Im really looking forward to the outcome of the ASIC investigation....should be some good threads coming up either way it goes. :D

[quintets]

Guys all I can say is I had plenty of questions about Derivex so I made an appointment and went to the office and sat with them last week.

They answered all my questions and I have since followed up with more questions over the phone this week. If you have questions I can only suggest you go and ask them in person

Ive enjoyed reading all the posts on this subject and I have agreed when Sim has stepped in as the threads all end up moving the same way. Im really looking forward to the outcome of the ASIC investigation....should be some good threads coming up either way it goes. :D
Good on 'ya Wazza. I didn't expect them to be entertaining appointments and questions in the middle of the ASIC investigation. I think I might have to do that myself, if I can get time away from work and the kids. :):)

[Tandella]

some of these threads are becoming potentially defamatory in nature, so in order to protect ourselves, we choose to take a tough stance on such things.
Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.

[quintets]

The point Jireh, is that investing money is not all about numbers- sometimes, it's about people. A certainb real estate bus tour operator, was mentioned in another forum, and after some research was undertaken, it was shown that the business operator had been to jail for a large number of years, for fraudulent dealings with pensioners. He'd been mentioned in parliament, and this was documented.

The info provided, allowed people to make a more informed decision about the operations of the company. Researching companies and people, is something that is not unknown on forums. Many people check out ASIC and FIDO to find out some background information. Finding out, for example, that someone is banned from running a company- just as an example- and publishing that- linked to FIDO- would be a fairly normal thing, I would htink, and would certainly not have one - or a forum- liable to legal challenge.

Economic modelling is one thing- people are another. Inconsistencies in provision of information is merely another thing to take note of. It's just a part of research before one might invest money.

Anyway, I'm pleased that there has been fairly extensive dialogue on Derivex- lots of different perspectives and information provided :)

Cat
Sorry Cat, I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. I didn't see your questions and quite frankly, I don't see what value the questions have to offer if you haven't done the research yourself or have a specific investment problem you're trying to solve. I agree with Sim in that a good forum is when people bring their hard-earned knowledge to the table. Otherwise, we're just fooling ourselves with what seems like intelligent debate.

My view on D is that there are many things that make you go "hmmmm....". Some laughable. Some tragic. The risks are present and if nothing, I've learned to think more clearly about financial and legal risks which are part of the investing journey. However, I'm going to wait and see until the point I have to decide whether I'm going to sign a contract. Then I'll decide.

See ya in other parts of the forum.

Happy investing!!

[quiggles]

Sim,

Thank you for your efforts. I support the actions you have taken.

And to others, no, disclaimers don't necessarily work in a court of law if you ought to have known that something libellous or defamatory might have been published under your banner.

The miracle is that this site exists in the wildly productive and useful fashion that it does. I don't give tuppence ha'penny about D****** but I would certainly mourn the loss of the forum.

[qaz]

I'm completely behind Sim and his continued good work as administrator of this board. I think its a tough job and virtually impossible for him to keep everyone happy. Keep it up Sim........

[MichaelW]

Guys,

I'm with Quiggles on this one. I can't believe that so many people are so caught up in the whole d*****x thing. Personally, I now know they exist and will give it 6 months or so to see if it flies. In the meantime I don't give a toss, and will happily just keep reading all the actually informative threads on this forum. I only checked in on this one since I am completely behind SIM in his actions and wanted to see if he was copping too much flack, and from whom.

Anyway, off to read some real threads now...

Michael.

[XBenX]

Its good to see you all care about SS so much - nothing like a healthy debate =)

[quiggles]

Its good to see you all care about SS so much - nothing like a healthy debate =)
You're right - much of this IS nothing like a healthy debate!

[quintets]

I'm completely behind Sim and his continued good work as administrator of this board. I think its a tough job and virtually impossible for him to keep everyone happy. Keep it up Sim........
Ditto for me. I agree this forum adds a fair bit of work for Sim and even much more so ever since D came around. I especially like the other statements about the value of this forum being people bringing in what they KNOW. That's probably the most important part of this forum.

Thanks for all your efforts Sim.

[asy]

Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.

Tandella,

you are missing the point...

We don't WANT This forum to rely on a disclaimer.

The other property investing forum some people belong to seems to have degenerated into a free-for-all, due to their laissez-faire moderation attitudes.

This forum has always been the premier forum, due to it's strong policies and attitudes toward arguments and trolling.

I know it sounds simplistic to say "if you don't like it, don't participate", but that's really the heart of the matter.

You either like the way it's run, or you don't.

And anyone who's taken the moderation of the dx threads personally really needs to have a look at their posting practices.

I closed one of the threads after reading through it and determining that the thread was winding round and round and round and going nowhere and just getting angrier and angrier. I don't even know who was participating any more, it wasn't personal, it was circumstantial.

asy :D

[michaelg]

Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.

Tandella,

Defamation Law doesn't quite work like that. Have a read of the Defamation Act (by necessity I have had to). There's no subsection that states - "please disregard this act if material published contains legal sounding disclaimer".

Regards
Michael G

[Tandella]

Hi Michael,

So are you saying that essentially disclaimers have little or no weight in the eyes of the law, effectively offering no level of immunity ?

T.

[Ruby]

Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.
Sometimes it just pays to look :)

http://www.somersoft.com.au/forum.htm

[MichaelW]

Guys,

The law is not necessarily logical or common sense. In particular defamation defies this test. My understanding from my wife, a solicitor, is that a statement doesn't even have to be false to be suable for defamation. That is, you can say something that is entirely true about someone, but if it causes them to lose income or standing in the community, then they can sue you for defamation. Arguing that your statement was factual is no defense under the law.

My advice, never say something bad about anybody regardless of whether it is the truth or not. Its a legal no-go zone.

Cheers,
Michael.

[Simon]

Guys,

My advice, never say something bad about anybody regardless of whether it is the truth or not. Its a legal no-go zone.

Cheers,
Michael.

Is bad manners too :)


Simon

[qaz]

My advice, never say something bad about anybody regardless of whether it is the truth or not. Its a legal no-go zone.

Micheal Whyte is crap :p

[MichaelW]

Micheal Whyte is crap :p

Right that does it! Its a good thing noone takes your posts seriously qaz or I'd have to sue!! ;)

Cheers,
Michael.

[Aceyducey]

Tandella,

Regardless of whether a statement is true and regardless of whether there is a disclaimer on a forum, the forum can be successfully closed down by someone suing an individual posting a thread for defamation - even if that's the first post ever made by that individual.

Effective moderation is a must. Which is why I have always been very surprised that Steve McKnight opens himself up to legal action the way he does with PI.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[quiggles]

My understanding is that to prove defamation, you have to show that the person (in this case Jan and Ian as publishers) made the statement (i.e. allowed someone to post it) and that it caused you damage. Truth is not a defence, or more precisely truth is a partial defence. The defendent (still Jan and Ian, although the poster may also get bound up in this mess) needs to show that revelation of the fact was in the public interest.

Obviously, dark reflections on someone's integrity is going to fail the truth test to begin with, unless you can prove that you had a factual basis for those reflections at the time of defamation. I'm not a lawyer etc, etc.

You'll note that politicians bring a lot of defamation suits, not to bring to court but to shut critics up. Of course they can stand up in Parliament and say things about anyone under Parliamentary privilege. That's not available to the rest of us.

I reckon a moderator should probably lock this thread. But then I'm a trouble maker. ;)

[Patosan]

I'm with Sim,

Regardless of the legal aspects there just wasn't anything new.
The flaming was mildly entertaining but then again it too became boring.
Hell the threads were closed down not deleted ... what's all the drama.
Once some real news comes to light start a new thread based on the facts.

On a different angle I'd suggest that Sim and others aren't being paid yet to do such a wonderful job. So we should be extremely tolerant of them, almost as much as they are tolerant of our rantings and ravings.

Bye Sim, your ever obedient servant
Patrick

[agent 86]

Couldn't of been said better, Patosan.

A86

[ArJay]

Yep I'm in total agreeance with Pat and A86... most of the DeriveX related threads have been utter dribble as of late IMHO.

Close'm down whatever Sim....better than this he said she said blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzz...... it's no longer a debate it's a flaming hunk of troll turd :D

When some decent info comes to light then let's discuss things. Otherwise why don't we spend our energies doing something like....say.....property investing?

ArJay :)

[MichaelW]

Arjay,

Thanks for bumping this otherwise dead thread back to the top, even if your post was suggesting the thread is a waste of time. ;) I'd sort of hoped it had died of neglect...

Doh, am I guilty of my own accusation!! :eek: Nah, it was already bumped...

Cheers,
Michael.

[Peter 14.7]

Sometimes it just pays to look :)

http://www.somersoft.com.au/forum.htm

Great Idea Ruby

That link goes to the First Page of the Forum.

To clarify some posts here re closing threads, who owns the forum, etc. here is the entire first page with the answers from the owners highlighted in bold.

The Somers position is clear, easy to follow, commonsense and most importantly, common courtesy.

Please take the time to read before posting further.

Peter 147

Welcome to the Property Investor's Forum

Please note that while this forum is hosted by Somersoft, the views expressed herein are not necessarily those of the company, nor those of Jan or Ian Somers. The forum is open to all those with an interest in property investment, but users should respect the views of others and refrain from any anonymous, rude, libellous or unfair comment.

Click here to access the forum

About this Forum

The role of this forum is to provide a way that property investors can learn about property investment from fellow investors. To this end the forum is a place for investors to:
• Discuss property investment issues in general
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This Property Investor Forum has been a natural extension of what Jan and I have been trying to achieve through our books and software tools: to help fellow property investors and potential property investors gain the knowledge necessary to confidently invest in real estate. In this regard the forum has already proven to be a great success, with thousands of investors taking advantage of it to network and learn from fellow investors. In fact, I would love to take the credit for the idea of establishing the forum in the first place, but that belongs to someone called Les (now one of the moderators on the forum). Its popularity has been such that the hardware and software resources needed to run the forum have been upgraded several times now to cope with the demands and its latest metamorphosis has largely been the result of the efforts of another forum member who goes by the nickname of Sim (now one of the administrators and moderators of the forum).

Forum Policy

Both Jan & I strongly support the concept that you stand to learn a lot from the experience and independent advice of fellow investors. However, this is not meant to suggest that such advice is always the best advice or that advice from industry professionals is always coloured. There are many industry professionals who also give freely of their time and expertise to make valuable contributions to the forum.

But always remember that it is a public forum and, as such, the views posted are not necessarily those of Somersoft (Jan or Ian Somers) or of any of the forum moderators. Nor does Somersoft recommend or endorse any specific investments or business opportunities discussed by participants in the forum. In fact, the forum is not meant to be a place for classified advertisements. However, there may not always be a clear line between sharing information on investment opportunities and using the forum as a place to simply market products and services. If you think that your post might be interpreted as spam, don’t post it. Furthermore, self-promotion should be by way of deeds not ads. We recommend forum members make their own assessment of what industry professionals have to offer based on the utility of their contributions to the forum.

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The Moderators

Moderators have been chosen to help facilitate the smooth running of the forum based on their expertise in their respective fields, the utility of their contributions to the forum over the past couple of years, and their relative independence. All of them have earned the respect of their peers during that time and they all give their time and share their expertise voluntarily. We would like to formally acknowledge and thank them for their efforts in this regard.

[Brizzy Boy]

Hi Guys,
My 2cents worth, I am new to investing and new to this forum, am on an enormous learning curve, most of which comes from all the wealth of knowledge that all of you have, so the way I see it, I would not like anything to jeopardize this forum as I said it is one of my tools for learning as I am sure it is for many others.

Many Kind Regards
John

[Sim]

Thanks for the kind words Brizzy Boy - I hope you do indeed manage to learn all that you need to become successful.

I think that's a good place to leave this thread.