CGT and land subdivision?

Gee, I am up late tonight with all these problems running through my brain. You guys have always been so helpfull, so I am hoping I can get some advise to allow me to sleep!

Block of land, 1 acre, beach front, purchased in 1996 for $180K. has PPOR on it, and plans to subdivide have finally come through after a huge council battle!Front valued at $1.5m and back block will be at around $500k to $600K.
What happens to the subdivided block? Is there a CGT component we have to pay to the ATO when the subdivision comes through, or only if and when we sell? What if we intend never to sell? but plan to build on it a few years down the track, and to make it our next PPOR?
Should we be putting it in a trust, right from the start, to avoid any future tax problems, as the gain has been enormous, and will probably even get bigger?Arghhh, it is now getting mind boggling.
 
bianca said:
Gee, I am up late tonight with all these problems running through my brain. You guys have always been so helpfull, so I am hoping I can get some advise to allow me to sleep!

Block of land, 1 acre, beach front, purchased in 1996 for $180K. has PPOR on it, and plans to subdivide have finally come through after a huge council battle!Front valued at $1.5m and back block will be at around $500k to $600K.
What happens to the subdivided block? Is there a CGT component we have to pay to the ATO when the subdivision comes through, or only if and when we sell? What if we intend never to sell? but plan to build on it a few years down the track, and to make it our next PPOR?
Should we be putting it in a trust, right from the start, to avoid any future tax problems, as the gain has been enormous, and will probably even get bigger?Arghhh, it is now getting mind boggling.

Hi Bianca,

I asked similar question the other day:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25998&highlight=gst

You only pay CG when you sell it if you do it.

Nice work !

Regards,
James
 
Hiya,

A similar situation was raised at the NTAA seminar a month or so back...

If you do choose to sell, and sell both blocks (the original home and the subdivided block without building) as one parcel, and you are still eligible for the PPOR exemption, then the whole package is CGT-free.

Something else to think about, I guess...

Cheers

James.
 
If you are considering an alternative structure for the new block, then put it in a company. A trust is only beneficial where there a number of beneficiaries (which can be company or a SMSF) to distribute the large gain to.

You will be able to access the CGT roll-over when placed into the company, - a concession that cannot be claimed if transferring to a trust structure.
Any gain up to the transfer can effectively be ignored; admittedly with the new block this will be minimal as it is a new asset for CGT purposes. Downside is that any future gain will be realised without CGT discount although there are a number of small business concessions available.

There are situations whereby adjacent land can be sold together with your main residence with CGT is ignored. However, CGT will be applicable as you have sub-divided and thereby created a new CGT asset with separate title.
 
Bianca, I wonder what you would do with the proceeds of a sale. Do you think you will find stronger performance than beachfront at Mackay in the next 3 years? A friend in a similar position is holding long term.
 
Thank you all!!!

XXXXXXXX-- this always beats ringing my accountant for detailed info.

He suggested that we just leave it in our individual names,and to not worry about it until later, if we decide to sell.I will investigate the other options mentioned here and run them past him.It always worries me a bit, because he is just not into property.

thefirstbruce...I am definitely not selling within the next 5 years. Beachfront here, and especially where this land is, is only going to go up and up and up. We have actual beachfrontland to the waterline, which is prety rare I believe. But just in case, the plan goes astray, I want to make sure I am not going to lose out on the fantastic gains made through my silly ignorance and stupidity, or bad advise from ill informed local professionals (not meaning anyone in particular of course). Thats why I ask for opinions in here first:)
 
By the way,

if anyone wants any info on Mackay or investing here, let me know if I can help. I know the place pretty well.;) Dont know any other way to pay you all back for your help. cheers all!
 
bianca said:
By the way,

if anyone wants any info on Mackay or investing here, let me know if I can help. I know the place pretty well.;) Dont know any other way to pay you all back for your help. cheers all!

Feel free to answer as little or as much as you like Bianca :)

I'd be interested in what the council's attitude is towards medium density living, and whether they are relaxing zoning close to infrastructure. i.e. Res A to Res B

Do you think it is still possible to get any good potential developments the locals haven't already locked up? I know regional cities are held tightly by locals, esp with all the local mining money looking for tax relief.

I don't know Mackay that well, but assume like most regionals, there'd be 809m2+ lots close to cbd and current/planned satellite shopping malls....and if these could be cut into 3+ townhouses, that might be a nice project.

Further, what's the supply and zoning like for commerical, and returns? Some councils play silly buggers with releasing more land for commercial, esp councillors with land holdings of their own seeking commercial zoning, or current property. On that, do you consider the council to be reasonably professional and uncorrupt?

Do you have good water supply there for the growing population? And road infrastructure? Some councils are useless at planning this stuff, then slug 10 years of catch up onto your rates... Anything else you have to say about growth there would be appreciated. state schools, private schools, sporting grounds, parks....are they beautifying the waterfront?

What do you think will happen once coal infrastructure development is finalized? Though I don't see that happening for at least 3 years.

Do you see more and more people planning retirement into the area? Seems everyone I spoke to on a recent trip to the mines were looking at retiring to Yeppoon, Hervey Bay, or Sunshine or Gold Coast. No mention of Gladstone or Mackay. Have you looked into retirement villages? or over 55s enclaves?

I'd love to do one each of a mobile home park and carvan park. Looked at one about 3 years ago up there. But let it go. Last I heard councils were tightening up on them across Australia- harder to get approvals for more van sites etc. Though if you can get one that hasn't been run well, and revitalize it and get cash flow up, is easy to flick based on increased yield. Still lots of retirees wishing to throw super at them.
 
info

Hi bruce, i have no problems giving a little inside info .
1) Mackay council has just gazetted a new strategic plan and has changed a lot of previous rezoning possibilities. Most HD areas are now restricted the their designated urban residential area--you can check out all the mapping on www.mackay.gov.au site, where they have access to all the town planning info, and the new stratgic plan. The 1:400 rule has been implemented, to most Res B zoning, and City fringe and within is designated HD. A lot of people got caught with large parcels of land which fell outside this area, and for which the BA's for their multiple dwellings and or subdivisions had not yet been passed by council. ( a lot of court cases are pending, I believe) There were certain areas in which it was the norm to buy the house, knock it down and build units-- the main road into the city being one. So you must do your homework if you are looking for multiple dwellings or rezoning etc.
i2) There are, however, still some very good development sites still available, or back on the market. Again, one must be careful, because a few I have seen seem great until you realize that the land is either very low, or very iffy.
Having said that, I know of a few that would be perfect for commercial development, but I am not ready to become such a big player yet. There is one site on the highway, which just yells out."pick me, pick me" , and I have just come across a 10000 sqm beachfront parcel zoned for tourist operation, right smack bang in the middle of the most booming suburb here!!! -( I haven't got a spare couple of mill though :eek: ) So, yeah, still heaps of opportunity.
3) Commercial is restricted as per zoning plans.North Mackay is the place to be for future growth--the northern beaches areas are just going crazy. The two main shopping centres both have plans for major expansions over the next couple of years, which is always a sure sign of prosperity in the town. And the city centre is in the midst of a huge revitilization program. with river walks, conference centres, a city lagoon,high rise apartments and hotels going up--Latitude, Rivage,a major National chain is in the midst of building a 7 story hotel in city central, plus numerous other projects are happening. This place is not going to slow down any time soon. In fact, it has always been a fantastic place to invest, as it seems to have a life of it's own, not governed by the major highs and lows that the majority of areas throughout the country, go through. If its not the mines, its the cane, and if its not the cane, its the tourism, or the grain, or the cattle, or our coal terminal...you know what I mean?
4) Huge demand for retirement villages, child care centres and just housing in general. Just yesterday again, a public outcry for the government to step in as the housing availibilty particular out west, is critical. You tell me, where else can you get $650 per week for a $340K house?? They will build camps and other housing for the influx of guys, but the miners with families, and the people servicing the mines also have to live somewhere.Some of these mines have been operating for 20 years or more, and the town supporting them have been self sufficient for a long time, so the fear of. "what hapens when the resources boom is over"is crap as far as we are concerned. Even if it slows down, the bigger town will still survive, as they always have, and even if the rents stabilize,they will never fall below state average.
5) there are plans for an $18M--dont quote me on that amount--caravan park just south of the city, as previously the caravan parks were located too close to the main business district. They replaced these with big motels--of course! There are still 2 sizable parkd with close proximity--Andergrove caravan park being the largest. They have just diverged into $`189K "small lot"houses ( dongers) sold of to investors,rents they get are about $350 a week I believe. I have a contact in the park who would be quite happy to tell you everything about the caravan park situation here...She knows it all:) we have also just spent 12 months in checking out all the retirement villages here and have picked the one and only one which is a stand out from the others for one other set of parents.There are players out there as we speak, I can give you names if you need to check them out, or want to get involved,however, who are "planning"to get into this market in the next few years, so research needed there.
I realy dont understand why all you people want to stay in the capital cities when there is so much opportunity here, but I guess a lot of you have already found us, going by how quickly everything gets snapped up. Lucky I am not looking for any more here at the moment....cio for now
 
or you could just buy the only legal brothel outside of Brisbane, I believe..its come up for sale, and its turning over a handsome profit!!!!:rolleyes: Miners!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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