Neil Jenman

[brains]

Did anyone see Neil Jenman being interviewed by Terry Willesee on Sky News last night?

He produced a training manual from one of the states real estate institutes, and it shows the tactics real estates should use at auctions as part of the official REI training..........scary stuff.

They had a talkback segment where viewers can ring in and relate their stories to Willesee or Jenman. Most of the viewers stories were horrendous, traumatic dealings with real esate agents (mostly to do with auctions).

Anyone with a skerrick of brains and decency would have to concede the real estate industry is rotten from the core, years of ingrained bullying tactics, lies and bad practice have convinced lots of people in the industry that its the right way to conduct business, not to mention ethical dealing with people on any level.

And anyone who dares question the status quo is in for a hell of a time, as Jenman is now. He is calling for a federal enquiry into the industry as he says (corrrectly) that its the last industry that can operate this way unregulated. And i would bet hard earned money that one will come, sooner rather than later.

He's also had an open offer to publicly debate any senior real estate figure in Australia, with the public deciding the winner and the loser to donate $50 000 to the winners chosen charity, and not one person has taken him up on his offer ............amazing!!

I do concede that its impossible for the whole industry to be
tarred with the same brush, there are some good, honest, ethical agents out there (ive only ever met one one two).

Thanks for reading my babble.....

Wayne

ps: I have no connection with anything Jenman, i agree with
his views and am an advocate of honest, ethical business practice in general.

[Jas]

Originally posted by brains
He produced a training manual from one of the states real estate institutes, and it shows the tactics real estates should use at auctions as part of the official REI training..........scary stuff.


I've seen him play with training manuals from REI - they where manuals from the 1970s...

Jas

[Aceyducey]

I agree that Jenman has some very good points - and he's even canny enough now to pick his enemies carefully. Note that he often says that it isn't the Real Estate Agents who are corrupt, it's the system.

However, always remember that he is also selling his own system and has a strong motive to discredit the systems that exist.

In my experience, most real estate agents are Joes earning a living. Some are good at their job, some are bad, a few are probably corrupt just as in any other investment field.

There is plenty of information out there for a buyer or seller to do their own research and not get caught by corrupt ones - just as in any other investment you've got to do your own research.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[brains]

Jas,

It was a current manual.


While I agree that people should do ther own research, the population generally relies on the honesty of people (or businesses) acting for them (or who are recieving their commision).

You cant expect little old ladies to do "due diligence" on real estate transactions, or for that matter you cant expect the whole population to do due diligence on every commercial transaction they conduct throughout their lives so they dont get ripped off.

What a scary concept that is. A lot of things in life depend on honesty, as it should. Especially when we are talking about most peoples biggest purchase/sale of their life.

And the reason he concentrates on "the system" and not particualr agents is because thats exactly what the ingrained problem is.

[Kevmeister]

It makes far more sense to fix the problem (the system) rather than its symptoms (the agents). If the production line is turning out dodgy cars, you fix the production line first, not the cars.

As far as Jenman is concerned, it is a better leverage for him as well - getting the system changed avalanches into the agents changing in time.

Kevin.

[Andrew]

I was at an auction on the weekend. I was interested in the property but not at
the price I estimated that it would sell for. I was very surprised that only a
single bid was made at $320K.

Once the auction wound up I approached the selling agents cronies to register
my interest. The selling agent walked right up to me and told me what the
top price the winning bidder was prepared to pay. $330K.

If that's not unethical, I don't know what is. Now I know exactly what to offer
if I want to begin negotiations, $1000 dollars more than what the other guy
had knocked back. The agent has done a disservice to both the vendor and
the bidder whom the property was passed in to.

I don't know if agents are conciously unethical or many of them are just plain
stupid or too greedy to stop and think for a moment.

andy

[Lotana]

Andrew,

You assume the agent told you the truth. This assumption may be a bit too optimistic.

Say cheese :p

Lotana

[brains]

All of the above Andrew.

There was a story related by a viewer last night of a selling agent's salesperson actually bidding against the bidders she had introduced to the auctioned property, not just one vendor bid, but constantly bidding after her prospective buyers had bid. Apparently their jaws hit the floor and they left. She was obviously trying to push the price up for the vendor but blew the whole deal for everyone. Love your work darling............

[Aceyducey]

Brains,

If you're a buyer the Agent isn't acting for you - this goes even for Jenman agents :)

And who talked about 'every commercial transaction' - we're talking about buying houses here.

Most people change houses about once every seven years, so doing due diligence on such a large and infrequent event isn't that hard (though many people are understandably not very good at it).

Unfortunately most of the current Australian legislation regarding real estate in this country isn't set up to support buyers & sellers - and to add confusion it's at state rather than federal level meaning more people must be lobbied.

To change the system we need a lobby group, some political pull (more than the REIs and big Real Estate chains) and media coverage.

So who's prepared to stick their hand up to organise this? (besides Neil Jenman - who gains from a new system he proposes)

Otherwise, complaining about the system is fine, but working within it is still reality.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
(in a pragmatic mood)

BTW: I personally try to help out anyone I know who asks me about buying property. If every investor does this, we'd be making some headway.

[Andrew]

Lotana: You don't think lying to a potencial purchasor is unethical?

Whether the agent disclosed a price or told me porky he wasn't
being ethical.

andy

[Lotana]

Andrew,

"Whether the agent disclosed a price or told me porky he wasn't
being ethical. "

I fully agree. On the practical side - people do tell lies from time to time, and we have to deal in this environment. There were a number of discussions on dealing ethics on this forum (one of them I can recall was about getting the best pizza deal by blackmailing the pizza place).

From what I've seen so far (and I am not a great fan of what I've seen) most people tell lies, big or small, when they are buying or selling a property. What's acceptable for one is unethical for the other.

In connection to this, I'd like to ask: is it ethical to buy a property from a non-ethical agent or a non-ethical vendor?

I bought my house from a dishonest agent working for a dishonest vendor. And I bought very well. I have not lied and acted ethically, I believe.

Say cheese :p

Lotana

[brains]

"just as in any other investment you've got to do your own research."


Aceyducey,

My mistake, i thought you were referring to other investments beside real estate with the above line.

I meant as a buyer the agent who introduced you to a property rather than acting on your behalf.


Lotana,

Do you get around every day assuming that people are lying to you, because to assume they are telling the truth would be optimistic, or does that only apply when you are talking to real estate agents?

[Aceyducey]

I'm with Lotana,

Just because an agent seems to be lying or unethical doesn't mean I won't deal with him...I'll just be more careful in my sums. I don't consider myself unethical for buying a property at the right price for me if the seller is prepared to sell at that price.

Lying is also an ambiguous term. I can look at a picture and see a young woman, you can look at the picture and see an old woman and we'd both be telling the true.

So when a real estate agent or vendor tells me that the house is in good condition I listen, then check for myself - it's not lying, it's opinion :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[brains]

n. lie

A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.

Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

v. lied, ly·ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.

To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.



"Lying is also an ambiguous term. I can look at a picture and see a young woman, you can look at the picture and see an old woman and we'd both be telling the true."

Aceyducey, Youre talking about something completely different here, lying is intentionally telling a non truth to deceive, what youre talking about is two people having a differing perspective or opinion of something.