Is full-time investing realistic?

[LucasK]

I've just started university with an arts degree. Originally I planned to apply for a transfer to law after my first year (this year), but now I'm having second thoughts (law is extremely dull, but I've never really faced up to that fact).

I thought perhaps a commerce/arts degree would be better (much easier to transfer to as well). However, I'm quite confused about where my life is going to go. Someone mentioned I could get into property investment full-time after working a few years.


Do any of you plan to work all your lives, while accumulating property investments? Or work for 5-10 years before quitting work?

And is full-time investing a realistic option, especially in Australia?

[Jakk]

Originally posted by LucasK

And is full-time investing a realistic option, especially in Australia?

G'Day LucasK,

Maybe, maybe not, but if someones got to do it, what the heck, it might as well be me.

regards

[WillG]

Hi Lukas,

I plan to accumulate IP's so I can choose where and when I want to work. In 10 - 15 years I should have enough passive income to provide a simple way of life ($30k / year) without working at all.

I see investment as a tool to help me 'not have to work' from time to time so I can concentrate on things that are important to me like family, health, playing guitar, woodwork, renovating ...

[Aceyducey]

Originally posted by LucasK
However, I'm quite confused about where my life is going to go.

Lucas,

I appreciate where you are and it's great you are on this forum asking questions. I wished I had the forethought and courage to do this when I started uni as it would have saved me ten years of working to meet other peoples' goals.

Your life will go where you choose it to go. if you refuse to set the direction, others will set it for you - but not in the direction you want.

University cannot tell you what you want in YOUR life.
Your peers cannot tell you what you want in YOUR life.
Your family cannot tell you what you want in YOUR life.

They can, however, provide invaluable support in achieving your goals, but YOU must control the goal setting process and YOU must screen your relationships and education to ensure they support YOUR goals.

Forget about which course to do, whether you should become a property investor, or whatever.

FIRST:
1) Read some books on goal setting.

2) Set goals for yourself over both the long term (25+ years), mid-term (next 5 years) and short-term (next week)

3) Choose the degree that will get you to these goals - or if no degree suits, leave uni and go do what will get you there in the timeframe you have set

4) Reread your goals as often as you can - keep them foremost

After you know what you want you can achieve it. Most people don't know what they want, which is why they change course so often and live with regrets.


Originally posted by LucasK
And is full-time investing a realistic option, especially in Australia?

Yes, there are people doing it full time.

There were two on A Current Affair in the last week, there are several on this forum, and there are a number of books out there about and by people who have achieved this.

And these people CHOOSE to work as investors full time, you can always choose to continue to work in your profession - working is more fun if it's a choice not a necessity.

Remember that investing full-time IS a job. You have to keep records, make decisions, attend meetings, learn how to buy and sell, just like many other jobs - it's not an opportunity to lay on the beach and surf all day. Generally wealthy people work at least as hard as poor people - they just work differently (focusing on their goals).


Never stop learing!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[Brenda Irwin]

It is very possible to invest full time.
Hint: Start out with a cheap IP 'house' in a desirable area.
Look for something structurally sound but which is very grubby with looong unkept lawns & overgrown gardens.
Get stuck in to it, mowing & pruning, washing & a little painting.
Is it tenantable yet? Get a good PM to rent it 1yr then sell for big fat profit.
Meanwhile, do it 4-5 times a year to keep you busy.
As the years pass you will tire of the hard work so keep a few dozen IP's for yourself to retire on the rental income.
A cushy law degree would guarantee you could pay someone else to do all the mowing & cleaning till you have enough IP's to retire on.
Half the fun of wages is being able to claim all the IP tax deductions against your income.
Don't miss the fact that quite a number of successful property investors started out working in supermarkets. If law is too had a slog do what you heart tells you & enjoy life.
Cheers Brenda

[kierank]

Aceyducey,

What an awesome post with a great message!!!

KieranK

[john doe]

Hi Lucas,

I agree with AceyD. It's so easy to go through life trying to meet other people's goals (especially our parents). It's even easy to convince yourself that they are YOUR goals too.
And if you're an intelligent and determined person, you will fulfill those goals even if they aren't REALLY what you want. But you won't feel completely happy and complete until you determined what YOU really want.

The best thing to do is to really think about what you want in life and what makes you feel happy. I recommend reading "Follow your heart" by Andrew Matthews. It's simple to read and helps put you on the track to determining your goals for your life.

John

[LucasK]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Its got me thinking about what my future options are.


My goal is simply to live comfortably. Since investment seems the best option for that, I've always looked into investment as a source of income. When I look at people working from 7-5, then working 4 more hours at home, it kind of makes me wonder what the point of life is.



I understand that investing itself is hard work. However, with investing, every action I do and every hour I spend means more money, whereas with a job, it seems like day after day of menial labour without really achieving much (especially if you get dismissed).

One of my concerns is whether it is realistic to work hard for 5-10 years, then getting into investment as a primary source of income. I've heard some say they could do it, while others say it may not be possible.

For those 5-10 years, it would likely be some job from a commerce Monash degree.

[geoffw]

Here's a contrary view.

I'm in a job where I get paid by the hour.

I've been through some absolute s**t periods in this job.

But I love the work I'm doing now. It is really, really rewarding. I know that what I am doing is appreciated, and I know that it is contributing something positive to the world as a whole.

I'd like the freedom not to have to do it 40 hours a week 51 weeks a year. I'd like some of that time with my family.

But I would not ever miss out on what I'm doing now.

I've had lows, and I've had highs.

But the highs far outweigh the lows.

People tell me I'm middle aged now. So I have to plan for that time when I can't get that job satisfaction for a fair pay.

Lucas, my advice would be to look to investing as a long term goal. (how long term depends on a lot of factors- including your own goals).

But in the shorter term, look towards life satisfaction in your chosen profession.

If you look at future earnings- do it only to help you reach your goal more quickly- make sure that you can get satisfaction out of that job while you plan to get out- and also plan for a life after you've been bale to get out of that profession.

If you do become a full time investor- just make sure you will get satisfaction doing that.

But, for me, I'd need about 20 properties before I became full time. Not because I didn't like it- but because, once established, each property takes so little time to take care of.

(I'm not counting renovating properties. That could be full time- but I couldn't see myself doing that full time just yet).

[Aceyducey]

Originally posted by LucasK


My goal is simply to live comfortably.

Lucas,

I think you need to dig a bit deeper to define your goals.

You want to live 'comfortably' - what does comfortable mean to you?

Two porshes in the garage & a holiday home on the French Riviera? A large & loving family? Not having to worry about how you'll pay the electricity bill next month?

There are many levels of comfort and generally the less well-off people are when being brought up the lower the bar they set.

Define what you want in terms of net income, lifestyle (travel, adventure sports, a log fire, etc) and personal achievements (learning to scuba/sky dive, supporting 100 kids in a third world country, etc).

Then you will have a clearer insight into your own definition of comfort.

Actually, one of the greatest barriers to success is comfort - people go out into the world, find a niche and either are or convince themselves they are comfortable. Then they stop learning & improving themselves & never challenge their own comfort zone.

Once you have determined what would make you comfortable, why not find something that makes you uncomfortable & go and overcome it - it will give you an enormous buzz & better understanding of your capabilities :)

One of my concerns is whether it is realistic to work hard for 5-10 years, then getting into investment as a primary source of income. I've heard some say they could do it, while others say it may not be possible.
For those 5-10 years, it would likely be some job from a commerce Monash degree.

It is possible, I have done this. I had a commercial degree from UTS.

Don't worry about what people say - watch what they do - it's a secret all kids learn & forget once they grow up.

The people who don't believe it is possible to achieve will not be able to do it. Belief is very powerful - just look at the history of any great movement & you'll see they were almost all fuelled primarily by belief

Generally I've found that very few people wake up one morning and realise that they've managed to break a barrier that they believed was insurmountable.

Only the people who believe they can overcome the barriers actually do :)

And guru hat off - sorry I mispelt learning in the last line of my first post in this thread - 'never stop learing' has never really worked for me ;)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[Sunstone]

Aceyducey,

The people who don't believe it is possible to achieve will not be able to do it. Belief is very powerful - just look at the history of any great movement & you'll see they were almost all fuelled primarily by belief

You really have hit the nail on the head!

I have always said this myself. If you think you can you can. If you think you can't you can't.

You create what you can do. Don't accept things are they are............... Always ask HOW we can change it to make it how we want it.

Good to hear others say it at the right time. ;)

Cheers,

Sunstone.

[angel_may]

Hi Cookie monster Geoff,


People tell me I'm middle aged now. So I have to plan for that time when I can't get that job satisfaction for a fair pay.


That's impossible, you will be forever young to your fans.:D :D :D
Have always enjoyed reading your posts. Please keep it up.

[Les]

G'day all,

I see quite a lot of comments like this:-
What an awesome post with a great message!!!
If you find an awesome post, go to the very last post on the thread. Below it, you'll find a box titled "Rate this thread" - in there, you can give a thread the rating it deserves.

Then (and you'll see quite a few in this forum) you'll see a number of stars to the right of the thread title. Makes it easy to see which threads have impressed others.

When you are simply "surfing", click on threads with 4 or 5 stars, and you'll find "The Best". Of course, until rating becomes natural to many, there are still some "hidden" gems out there.

Regards,

[Queen Bee]

Excuse me - but how old is "middle aged".

Myself and my partner have had lots of arguments about this. He reckons I'm middle aged now. I don't think middle aged is until you're about 55.

[geoffw]

Originally posted by Queen Bee
Excuse me - but how old is "middle aged".

Myself and my partner have had lots of arguments about this. He reckons I'm middle aged now. I don't think middle aged is until you're about 55. Middle aged is when you feel it.

I figure I'll be about 75 chronologically before I'm middle aged (at current rates)

[XBenX]

From my perspective anything over 30 is middle aged

Just fishing ppl...

:P

[brains]

People have no choice about being middle aged but can be young and immature all their lives:)

Couple of points.

Why does everyone assume (especially Robert Kiyosaki) that all people hate the job they do and want to get out of the rat race to invest? Im with Geoff, i love my work (even tho i hardly do anything these days).

Theres lots of successful people that havent set a goal in their life. That structured approach isnt for everyone. Sometimes i think people can outperform the goals they set, so might find them limiting. And if they continually revise their goals, why set them in the first place.

I think success is all about being a certain person (and mindset), and more importantly the "who wants it baddest" factor.

Being hungriest will get you there wether you invest or do PAYG or whatever.

Now im rambling.....:)

[JoannaK]

Originally posted by brains
Theres lots of successful people that havent set a goal in their life. That structured approach isnt for everyone. Sometimes i think people can outperform the goals they set, so might find them limiting. And if they continually revise their goals, why set them in the first place.

I think success is all about being a certain person (and mindset), and more importantly the "who wants it baddest" factor.

Being hungriest will get you there wether you invest or do PAYG or whatever.

Now im rambling.....:)


Excellent points Brains.

[coolstyle]

Hi Guys,

It is funny how asking such a simple question can bring such class and 'poetry' from people such as Aceyducey.

I will not try to replicate .. simply give some insight to me...

I'm about to leave work (which I don't enjoy) ... I don't enjoy it because of the subject matter. this point is plain and simple. I'm about to head to the workshop of a performance car business of which I'm the business development mgr (if you will) ... and this I love ... property is an avenue for me to invest cash from activites in cars and earnings from work ... (and i've not purchased my 1st yet)

If I was 5 years younger again - I would still study Commerce, but I would not go into the corporate world. I would save a lot of cash as best I can, and learn a lot more about ways of making money.. I woul get involved in more entreprenuerial projects while at uni, etc .. trying to make money the easy way as I go ..
don't underestimate the value of uni --> it can a free environment to think, meet likeminded people, and learn about what you don't want out of life. On the other hand it can drag you rcurrent thinking down into the low risk corporate approach.

The greatest risk is for you to ignore your current feeling of not wanting to work 12 hr days in a job you don't enjoy from 23 - 65 ... make your own way and you will not risk a thing.

I found study (while young) was great as it kept the judgemental types (family, peers, my own concience) off my back to allow myself time to workout the right directions to travel. ..

The most important point I would make is, DO WHAT YOU LOVE DOING. It is as simple as that. If you love property above any other job - then go for it without thinking twice. But you may find that you cannot invest in many projects without solid cash and solid income streams from other than property.

If you don't know what you like doing ... then goto uni and try everything ... it would be a mistake to start working in a 'dead-end' job while not knowing what you want to do ... get to uni and try everything ... and i don't mean classes .. meet people and experience as much as possible until you find your passion.

Look at the big picture, make those goals, then trace back and it will simple be a scientific equation to success ...if you stick to it you will feel ritch from day 1.

Cheers,
Coolstyle
(a bit wishy washy but I'm all to keen to leave job no. 1!)

[Aceyducey]

Originally posted by Queen Bee
Excuse me - but how old is "middle aged".

Myself and my partner have had lots of arguments about this. He reckons I'm middle aged now. I don't think middle aged is until you're about 55.


I've been middleaged for several years now, will go back to my twenties next year I think.

I accept that we have to celebrate birthdays, but why celebrate them in order - get the bad years over early & then live the good ones :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[LucasK]

Thanks for your advice! Its been quite helpful, and I've been thinking over things a bit.


I've decided to stay at uni to finish off a commerce degree, leaving the path open (still a year before I choose major).


Uni, I've found, it a good place to meet people. It seems odd, that I'm likely to benefit more from my friends and other uni students than from the teachers.


Probably the worst aspect is the way everything is so "academic". Even though I can see that a lot of the academic stuff is a foundation for the future, too much of it is unnecessary. Not to mention the horrible "referencing rules" they put on us.

There's some form of creativity in the Arts departments (and even then, it is regulated), but in Commerce, the word "creative" shares the same shelf with "Hitler" or "Satan".



All in all, it isn't a total waste. Obviously, I do have a solid beginning (although with the state of the economy, "solid" might be the wrong word for it), and it will at least earn me enough money to get started.

[Aceyducey]

Good luck LucasK,

You can build a really useful network at uni.

I found I got a lot more out of being involved with/organising student groups than the academic side of uni.

Check out AIESEC if it is at your uni - worth putting the effort in, you can get a LOT of value back (I went overseas to conferences with them twice, organised & attended lots of local events & built a good list of business contacts, plus learnt heaps more about business than the lecturers could teach).

Also I can recommend that you sacrifice some of that evening social life & try to get into seminars with the part-time students. They've got more world experience & can bring a lot more to the class than the full timers straight out of school. I learnt heaps from these people for whom university was about learning things to put into practice in their current roles.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[LucasK]

Whats AIESEC? Heard of it before, but never checked to see what it was.

Speaking of which, what are some good business or investment-related groups to join outside of university? The only one I've found is Toastmasters.

[Turtle]

LucasK,

It sounds as if you are miles (showing my age) ahead of many of your Uni peers in terms of looking down your life path and trying to ensure that it meets your needs.

One word of advice - make sure you enjoy yourself now. Finish your degree (you may need the income in the future), see a bit of the world and don't fret about being on the right life path too much. Most people change jobs/careers about 7 times over their life. In 20 years time your priorities may change. Finally, as you probably have surmised by now from all the excellent posts on this forum, and as you are obviously doing already, educate yourself financially. It can make a big difference in the long run.

Good luck.

Turtle

[Aceyducey]

AIESEC: http://www.au.aiesec.org/

At 17 unis currently (varies up and down a bit over time - was 21 when I was a member).

Investment / business clubs are all around.

Try SWAP (Salesman with a purpose) - good speakers, local venues, great mix of people.

Freestylers - lots of investors & about to be investors....just avoid their junk email :)

There are lots of other groups around, just do a web search & look for local ones in your area.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[XBenX]

did you say performance cars :)

im also one who has been bitten by the speed bug

Originally posted by coolstyle
Hi Guys,

It is funny how asking such a simple question can bring such class and 'poetry' from people such as Aceyducey.

I will not try to replicate .. simply give some insight to me...

I'm about to leave work (which I don't enjoy) ... I don't enjoy it because of the subject matter. this point is plain and simple. I'm about to head to the workshop of a performance car business of which I'm the business development mgr (if you will) ... and this I love ... property is an avenue for me to invest cash from activites in cars and earnings from work ... (and i've not purchased my 1st yet)

If I was 5 years younger again - I would still study Commerce, but I would not go into the corporate world. I would save a lot of cash as best I can, and learn a lot more about ways of making money.. I woul get involved in more entreprenuerial projects while at uni, etc .. trying to make money the easy way as I go ..
don't underestimate the value of uni --> it can a free environment to think, meet likeminded people, and learn about what you don't want out of life. On the other hand it can drag you rcurrent thinking down into the low risk corporate approach.

The greatest risk is for you to ignore your current feeling of not wanting to work 12 hr days in a job you don't enjoy from 23 - 65 ... make your own way and you will not risk a thing.

I found study (while young) was great as it kept the judgemental types (family, peers, my own concience) off my back to allow myself time to workout the right directions to travel. ..

The most important point I would make is, DO WHAT YOU LOVE DOING. It is as simple as that. If you love property above any other job - then go for it without thinking twice. But you may find that you cannot invest in many projects without solid cash and solid income streams from other than property.

If you don't know what you like doing ... then goto uni and try everything ... it would be a mistake to start working in a 'dead-end' job while not knowing what you want to do ... get to uni and try everything ... and i don't mean classes .. meet people and experience as much as possible until you find your passion.

Look at the big picture, make those goals, then trace back and it will simple be a scientific equation to success ...if you stick to it you will feel ritch from day 1.

Cheers,
Coolstyle
(a bit wishy washy but I'm all to keen to leave job no. 1!)

[LucasK]

Just found the AIESEC group for my university on their site.

I'll be looking into the SWAP and Freestyler groups.


Its going to be quite a busy uni life, balancing everything together while having fun. I guess this is why they were stressing time management before.

[coolstyle]

yes XBenX,

Bringing everything together now ..
Refer to www.bmtmotorsports.com.au in a few days (hosting has not been finalised) .. and you will get an idea of what we are about.
A low risk venture for me, but we are going in big (read: investors!). It's a great opportunity for me to have a key role in such a large venture.

Basically its a performance workshop aimed at Japanese Imports and Local Honda's. I have close ties with many car club leaders and cruise / circuit groups ... enough to support 5 f/t mechancis / dyno tuners for the past 2 months! ... currently moving into a 420 sqr mtr workshop in Heidelberg!

PM / email me if you have any further questions.

Cheers,

Coolstyle

[Sim]

When it comes to time management, as well as looking at what activities will truely help you become wealthy - two of the best books I have ever read are:

1. The Millionaire Next Door
and
2. The Millionaire Mind

If you haven't read them yet, then you must do so now. They can be quite boring at times as they spend lots of time analysing the statistics to explain their findings - but if you stick with it, it will be very worth your while.

Note that while they do suggest that many people who go to uni to help themselves find a job will actually be putting themselves into effective poverty for life - they do also acknowledge that there are some paths like that which can really boost your future wealth potential. Basically they are not saying that you necessarily have to be in business for yourself to become wealthy - there are some career paths that can work equally well... you just have to understand the differences and choose the right path.

[paulzag]

Originally posted by Aceyducey
AIESEC: http://www.au.aiesec.org/

At 17 unis currently (varies up and down a bit over time - was 21 when I was a member).

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Hehehe. Watch out for that one ;)... Most of the great AIESECer's never finish their degrees. But that have the most amazing fun and life-changing parties!

Oh and Nella doesn't trust any of em (for good reason). Join now if you are at Uni. Best marketing training on the planet. Liver damage optional.

regards

Paulzag
Dreamspinner
AIESEC Sydney Uni LC 1986-1988

[Aceyducey]

Hot damn Paul.

I was in AIESEC UTS 1989-1992
Projects Director & LCP.
Century Club member

Went to APLDS Indonesia & GSS in Japan (via Ravi) & did heaps of local conferences.

We probably slept...drank with the same people ;)

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[investor]

Originally posted by coolstyle

don't underestimate the value of uni

Hi

I agree with the above comment, but you have to like what you do. If you plan to do law and like it, then you would reach your goal of becoming a full time property investor much quicker if you are earning $400 an hour as opposed to $20 an hour. ;)

The 4-5 years you will be at uni is worth it, enjoy yourself while it lasts.

Why not concentrate on the part of law that has to do with property ? ;)

Regards

Investor :)

[Mark Laszczuk]

Lucas,
In one of your posts you came across as believing that to retire in 10 years, you need a commerce type degree. I assume you mean a large salary will enable you to retire in that time. Nothing could be further from the truth mate. I have a waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy below average income, but my girlfriend (who only works three days a week) and I have a goal (and plan for how to achieve that goal) of retiring in ten years on 100K p.a. and we are actually ahead of schedule at this stage.
Don't think you need a large salary to be able to retire in a reasonably quick amount of time, you don't. It's all about two things, mate. 1. The ability to believe in yourself and 2. the ability to focus and get to the point where you can automatically picture yourself in the position you want to be in in ten years. I can, it took some work, but I can easily picture myself financially independent in ten (actually, nine and a half, now) years.
Here's a tip: go to Steve Navra's seminar. It'll cost you peanuts, but potentially make you a lot of money. Check out www.navra.com.au for details. You wont regret it!

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'

[WillG]

Hi Mark,

Great to hear you have got a plan to make retirement happen. Can you point out some details of your plan that may help others to do the same.

You say 'you're 'ahead of schedule'. Can you explain how you measure where you are ?.

Cheers,
Will

[Mark Laszczuk]

Will,
Sorry can't give details, not on a public forum. If we meet one day, I may tell you a little bit about it.
We are ahead of schedule because we break down our major goal into smaller goals. We have a set amount of money we wish to save each year, which can easily be broken down months. It is by this that we gauge whether we are ahead of or behind schedule.
Once we move onto the actual purchase of IP's this will become a bit more tricky, but I'm sure we will find a way. It also helps that we have a good team of people behind us.

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'

[paulzag]

If you've played Cashflow 101, you'll notice it is harder to get out of the rat-race (retire on passive income) with a high income than with a low income.

High incomes normally come with expensive lifestyles in order to get the jobs with high incomes. Often they are coupled with high HECS debt too.

Also a high income encourages sloppy spending. I know an IT guy who bought 5 CD's per week. He could afford them but the $100 per week was an average IP at the time.

I buy two cappucino's a day = $5 - $6. My only vice (I think -- I may be in denial).

How can one be a successful advertising creative or up-and-coming lawyer and drive a $2000 car? I'm not sayng that you can't earn $400 per hour and NOT get free. But most well paid professional types can't afford to give up their jobs.

A good comparison is ask a professional how much life insurance they carry.

If GCC were still around he has some great perspective on getting free by not having huge expenses.

Regards

Paulzag
Dreamspinner

[paulzag]

Most uni degrees do not prepare you for an entrepreneurial life. They make you a good researcher to work for someone else. That is why recruiters descend on the best students every year.

If the course is vocational then it's even worse as your 3-7 year investment in your career is a huge obstacle to overcome.

That doesn't mean uni isn't worth it. Just keep perspective.

Regards

Paulzag
Dreamspinner

[always_learning]

After some consideration and a few excel sheets, it is clear to me that having a good income $400p/h or $20 p/h only helps at the start of your investment plan. Who cares in the end if it takes 10 years or 12 years.

To "retire" which for me is: "to be free of the obligation of work to support your yourself". Actually having a higher income may mean you have focused your efforts on the wrong "coal-face", trying to get rich by after tax income...the most difficult way. To me the easiest and most risk free way to financial independance is by using the "miracle" of compounded growth over time multiplied by the finding ways to add-value and increase returns on investment property.

[The Wife]

I've been out of school for a while but I still dont know what I want to be yet, however I did invest in some property while I was wondering what to do.

Is full time investing harder than a job, oh yes! You will work your butt off. If you want a nice cushy life, get a job. Playing outside of the box can get rough.

[brains]

Interesting thread this one. I have only one short thing to say and thats a quote from Mark Twain:

"Never let your schooling interfere with your education"

[sbe]

Rule of life # 1
Expenses will alsways rise to meet income.

It is harder to 'retire' from a high income job, because you're used to high income lifestyle / availability / debt servicing - whatever.

It helps at the start, but is a hinderence later......

We always think - if I can just get another $x,000 pa, I'll be OK. Invariably, expenses rise and consume it....

Just something for thought.

[Sim]

Similar to my own "Law of Expansion of Lifestyle"... which says something like

"(for the majority of population) lifestyle will expand to consume 110% of available income"

Having a job does not necessarily preclude one from becoming financially independent - nor does having a high income predetermine that you will have high expenses and never get anywhere financially - we are talking generalities.

The Millionaire Next Door and the Millionaire Mind cover this subject extensively.

There are certain career paths which, when managed with a sense of perspective, can greatly help you towards your financial goals, while also letting you do something you enjoy.

Personally, I don't see the point of working 50+ hours a week at a job that pays $50Kpa, which you don't really enjoy anyway. If you don't enjoy what you do, then you really need to ask yourself why you are doing it - could there be a better way ?

[LucasK]

Thanks for the advice people.

Right now, I'm pretty much at a crossroads in my life. I'm considering simply transferring to a commerce instead of law course, study for a few years, then finish it off and maybe get some cash from a job to get me started. It would be hard to regulate expenses, but it just might be possible.


I'll be getting those two books you mentioned; I definitely need every resource to figure out what sort of path I'm going to be taking.

What sort of career path would you expect could allow you to get towards financial sucess? Truth be told, I'm not too picky; anything in the commerce field would be satisfactory to me at the moment.



Paul - I've read a few of your posts, and a lot of them deals with starting up with property investing without any high-paying job or cash. What I am concerned about is risk. In your opinion, is it possible for anyone to suceed financially without a university-graduate job, if they are committed? If so, what are the level of risks involved?

[Sim]

Originally posted by LucasK
In your opinion, is it possible for anyone to suceed financially without a university-graduate job, if they are committed? If so, what are the level of risks involved?

If you want to speak to someone who did it - find out the story of "The Wife" - do a search, there's plenty of information here on the forum and elsewhere (try the Freestylers site as well). She's not the only one either - there are plenty of other financially successful people here who never went to uni.

The biggest risk you face is lack of choice - with a uni degree you get the choice of getting a nice comfortable job with a lot less risk (although the risks are still there !!). Without one you have to succeed or else.

If you find out her story, you will see that The Wife has never had a "job" in the traditional sense at all - that doesn't mean she didn't work... she just did it differently. To make it on your own you will need to think differently, and change your mindset about what it is you need to do to succeed without a degree.

[Peter Parker]

Lucas - why not stick with the Arts degree and major in geography (especially human geography)?

A lot of the stuff you learn (climate, population distribution, demography, urban hierachies, etc) are extremely relevant to property invesment.

Peter

[Turtle]

Lucas,

I agree with Sim - having the uni degree may give you greater choice. The degree can be a fall back position if other things don't work out. Also, going to uni can be a very enjoyable time of your life re social activities with friends. IMHO, my advice would be to finish the degree (especially if you have completed part of it already - although if you heart is telling you to move to commerce go for it). You are still young - there is plenty of time to do what you want later. It sounds as if you still even don't know what you want to do. Many people takes years to finally realise what they really want from life. Moreover, more than likely, you will change your mind over the years - many people do. If someone told me 10 years that I would be doing what I am doing now, I would have thought they were crazy. Yet here I am and loving every minute of it.

Turtle

[Aceyducey]

Lucas,

Virtually every career path can lead to financial success - or financial ruin.

it's not the path, but the person who walks it.

There are people on this forum earning from 0 to hundreds of thousands a year - this has little relationship to their net worth through property.

A high salary can give you a leg up to start - but you can't start until later in life (have to get to that high salary first) - why wait and miss those years of compounding property rises?

High salaries can also come with lifestyle requirements - either justified by the job or by personal desires for comfort - quite often the higher the income the less disposable cash is available.

Most important is when you start & how hard you push yourself.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

[Jas]

Originally posted by Sim
If you want to speak to someone who did it - find out the story of "The Wife" - ...

If you find out her story, you will see that The Wife has never had a "job" in the traditional sense at all - that doesn't mean she didn't work... she just did it differently.

Sim,

I think you're confusing TW with someone else. Her first job was a check-out chick, and at one point, she held three jobs simutansously. So yes, TW had a 'job' in the traditional sense.

Jas

[Sim]

Jas, what I wrote didn't really convey what I was trying to say... I really meant that once she discovered what property could do for her financially (at a VERY young age) - she never looked back at a career for the sake of a career.

[brains]

There are plenty of rich people out there without a uni degree. A close friend of mine is 35 yo, a millionaire and left high school in year 9.

He made his money with an earthmoving business (which he started - not bought) and worked like crazy.

Hes only recently started leveraging his business profits into property.

Theres thousands of those stories around.

[kierank]

Originally posted by brains
There are plenty of rich people out there without a uni degree.

And, depending on your definition of rich and poor, there are plenty of poor people with a uni degree - look at me.

[geoffw]

Originally posted by brains
There are plenty of rich people out there without a uni degree. A close friend of mine is 35 yo, a millionaire and left high school in year 9.

He made his money with an earthmoving business (which he started - not bought) and worked like crazy.

Hes only recently started leveraging his business profits into property.

Theres thousands of those stories around. Rich people without a degree?

A family friend not only is very rich (car worth $450K) but also practically illiterate.

But that hasn't stopped him from getting a motza as a property developer- and we're talking multi storey buildings here.

(well, it was single level building once- but that's another storey).

[brains]

Car worth $450k!! My God!! WhaT IS IT? Ferrari? Aston Martin?
Lambo?

[Aceyducey]

Car worth $450k!! My God!! WhaT IS IT? Ferrari? Aston Martin?Lambo?

Brains,

It's probably a Queenslander on a truck ;)

Cheers,

Aceyducey