Subdividing
- Thread starter devo
- Start date
In Brisbane as long as the property sits on individual lots the council cannot stop you subdividing, don't know what it is like in other states. Depending what the land is zoned at depends what you can do.
You will not get a definite answer from a council until an application is lodged, they may give you an idea but not a definite answer. Most of the builders do what Geoff suggested. They put a contract on the property subject to 6 months development approval. If the council don't approve, you don't buy the property. Usually the council will not tell you anything until you have a consent form signed by the owner of the proeperty allowing you permission to put in a Development application on the property.
Hope this helps in anyway. Every state and local council is different so it is hard to say.
Jarrod
Jarrod Lane Real Estate
You will not get a definite answer from a council until an application is lodged, they may give you an idea but not a definite answer. Most of the builders do what Geoff suggested. They put a contract on the property subject to 6 months development approval. If the council don't approve, you don't buy the property. Usually the council will not tell you anything until you have a consent form signed by the owner of the proeperty allowing you permission to put in a Development application on the property.
Hope this helps in anyway. Every state and local council is different so it is hard to say.
Jarrod
Jarrod Lane Real Estate
Dear Devo,
Welcome to the forum.
Yes the ways as Jarrod and Geoff have said is to either sign a contract "Subject to DA approval" or to purchase it with a (non-refundable) option.
The way you get around this is to have additional conditions added to the contract.
Eg.
-Sellers agrees to allow access for any site surveys or work that may be needed for development application.
-Seller agrees to grant any necessary approvals for the lodgement of development application.
Some factors to consider:
-What is the zoning? And what can you legally do with the zoning? (I have seen blocks of both 275m2 and 10,000m2 that were the lowest legal size for their respective areas.)
-Is the land flood affected? Flood affected land is MUCH harder to subdivide.
-Where is the sewer line located? (You cannot build over the sewer line.)
-What is the slope of the block? (Remember sewage cannot travel up hill without expensive pumping stations. Alternatively you may need to negotiate access through a neighbours property......... Be prepared to pay for this.)
-Is it mining affected?
Other factors that one council considers:
· Overlay 1: Bushfire Risk Areas
· Overlay 2: Key Resource Areas, Buffers & Haul Routes
· Overlay 3: Mining Influence Areas
· Overlay 4: Difficult Topography
· Overlay 5: Flooding & Urban Stormwater Flow Path Areas
· Overlay 6: Buffers to Highways & Regional Transport Corridors
· Overlay 7A: Defence (Area Control) Regulations and Obstruction Clearance Surfaces
· Overlay 7B: Operational Airspace, Wildlife Attraction & Lighting Issues
· Overlay 7C: 2006 Australian Noise Exposure Forecast (ANEF) Contours
· Overlay 7D: Explosive Storage Safeguard, & Public Safety Areas
· Overlay 7E: Unexploded Ordnance Areas
· Overlay 8: Motor Sports Buffers
· Overlay 9: Wastewater Treatment Buffers
· Overlay 10: Power Station Buffer
· Overlay 11: High Pressure Oil and Gas Pipeline
· Overlay 12: Creek Water Catchment
· Overlay 13: High Voltage Electricity Transmission Lines
· Overlay 14: Rail Corridor Noise Impact Management
Make sure you understand all the costs involved. Good money can be created, just make sure you do your own due diligence so you don’t overpay.
Don't forget your surveyors/engineers/DA application fees as well as your contributions.
Enjoy the journey.
Cheers,
Sunstone.
Welcome to the forum.
Yes the ways as Jarrod and Geoff have said is to either sign a contract "Subject to DA approval" or to purchase it with a (non-refundable) option.
The way you get around this is to have additional conditions added to the contract.
Eg.
-Sellers agrees to allow access for any site surveys or work that may be needed for development application.
-Seller agrees to grant any necessary approvals for the lodgement of development application.
Some factors to consider:
-What is the zoning? And what can you legally do with the zoning? (I have seen blocks of both 275m2 and 10,000m2 that were the lowest legal size for their respective areas.)
-Is the land flood affected? Flood affected land is MUCH harder to subdivide.
-Where is the sewer line located? (You cannot build over the sewer line.)
-What is the slope of the block? (Remember sewage cannot travel up hill without expensive pumping stations. Alternatively you may need to negotiate access through a neighbours property......... Be prepared to pay for this.)
-Is it mining affected?
Other factors that one council considers:
· Overlay 1: Bushfire Risk Areas
· Overlay 2: Key Resource Areas, Buffers & Haul Routes
· Overlay 3: Mining Influence Areas
· Overlay 4: Difficult Topography
· Overlay 5: Flooding & Urban Stormwater Flow Path Areas
· Overlay 6: Buffers to Highways & Regional Transport Corridors
· Overlay 7A: Defence (Area Control) Regulations and Obstruction Clearance Surfaces
· Overlay 7B: Operational Airspace, Wildlife Attraction & Lighting Issues
· Overlay 7C: 2006 Australian Noise Exposure Forecast (ANEF) Contours
· Overlay 7D: Explosive Storage Safeguard, & Public Safety Areas
· Overlay 7E: Unexploded Ordnance Areas
· Overlay 8: Motor Sports Buffers
· Overlay 9: Wastewater Treatment Buffers
· Overlay 10: Power Station Buffer
· Overlay 11: High Pressure Oil and Gas Pipeline
· Overlay 12: Creek Water Catchment
· Overlay 13: High Voltage Electricity Transmission Lines
· Overlay 14: Rail Corridor Noise Impact Management
Make sure you understand all the costs involved. Good money can be created, just make sure you do your own due diligence so you don’t overpay.
Don't forget your surveyors/engineers/DA application fees as well as your contributions.
Enjoy the journey.
Cheers,
Sunstone.
LiverpoolharryK,
I just wanted to ask you a simple question,with the 6 months D/A CLAUSE
in the contract how many people come in on this deal.
i have enduring power of attorney on my fathers real estate interests,
several blocks are lmr,large parcels of land content in inner city brisbane
i think you are talking to the wrong people if anyone came to me with this sort of deal
they will only receive one simple answer/NO....
GOOD LUCK
WILLAIR.....
I just wanted to ask you a simple question,with the 6 months D/A CLAUSE
in the contract how many people come in on this deal.
i have enduring power of attorney on my fathers real estate interests,
several blocks are lmr,large parcels of land content in inner city brisbane
i think you are talking to the wrong people if anyone came to me with this sort of deal
they will only receive one simple answer/NO....
GOOD LUCK
WILLAIR.....
Dear Willair,
3-6 months for due diligence on a subdivision is not uncommon. Subdivisions can take 6-9 months or longer.
Comes down to why the person is selling and whether they have 1) The time 2) The expertise or 3) The funds to do it themselves. Development blocks do not sell to the general public. Breaking them down allows a greater pool of potential buyers.
One property (4,000m2) that I looked at and turned down was picked up by a developer I know. In his due diligence he found that in the town plans that there was an additional road supposed to have been built right down the side of the block he wanted to subdivide. Council wanted him to pay the full cost to put the road through. How did this impact on his feasibility...............?
The bigger the project the more get out of jail cards one needs.
Cheers,
Sunstone.
Sunstone,
Hi there, I see that you have put in a mention about flood area. Don't think I told you all of this one but for one of my IP's, I made a few calls to the local shire council with all of the Devt questions. The main sticking point we had was that should we choose to add another property to our land, we had to build X above the 100 year flood level. OK, no worries so I went on my merry way for a few days. Then it hit me, "what's the level?" Called the shire council back and after a couple of days I was told that "there is no official record on council books as to the 100 yr flood level". So of course my next question was "well how high does the place have to be?", Was met with "we can't say but if you put in the DA that it will be above the lowest one in the street, should be fine". I didn't ask anymore questions but have not persued it further at this stage!! Sorry if it is off the track but a good story I reckon...
Dos
Hi there, I see that you have put in a mention about flood area. Don't think I told you all of this one but for one of my IP's, I made a few calls to the local shire council with all of the Devt questions. The main sticking point we had was that should we choose to add another property to our land, we had to build X above the 100 year flood level. OK, no worries so I went on my merry way for a few days. Then it hit me, "what's the level?" Called the shire council back and after a couple of days I was told that "there is no official record on council books as to the 100 yr flood level". So of course my next question was "well how high does the place have to be?", Was met with "we can't say but if you put in the DA that it will be above the lowest one in the street, should be fine". I didn't ask anymore questions but have not persued it further at this stage!! Sorry if it is off the track but a good story I reckon...
Dos
good morning Sunstone,
you may have missed my point,i would not tie up a property
for that time frame,i sold a property yesterday,they wanted first of all
20 weeks settlement,i said no go away if you still want the propertry
this is my terms,60 days 28 of those to have Brisbane city council
to tell the buyer if he or she can split the block and move the house.
one item to keep in mind in inner city brisbane is that the BCC
dont always let you move the house new laws came in late last year
so if you dont do your homework in the first place you will have problems..
but its not up to me to tell the new rules,no one ever told me 22 years ago when i
started.
good luck
willair..
you may have missed my point,i would not tie up a property
for that time frame,i sold a property yesterday,they wanted first of all
20 weeks settlement,i said no go away if you still want the propertry
this is my terms,60 days 28 of those to have Brisbane city council
to tell the buyer if he or she can split the block and move the house.
one item to keep in mind in inner city brisbane is that the BCC
dont always let you move the house new laws came in late last year
so if you dont do your homework in the first place you will have problems..
but its not up to me to tell the new rules,no one ever told me 22 years ago when i
started.
good luck
willair..
Dear Dos,
Actually this is a good question. The thing with overlay maps is that they just show the area of land covered in the 1 in 100 and 1 in 20 year flood levels. Difficult to work out the depths without getting a contour map at the same time.
Biggest issue council has is to be sure that bedrooms are not going to be flooded. Fear of flash flooding whilst people are sleeping...........?
Again all factors being equal I would avoid flood affected land where possible.
Willair,
Luckily for Jarrod he is not trying to sell your property.
Some comments:
-You know my views on selling. But selling in a flat market …………..
-Not doing the subdivision yourself………… Maybe you know something that cannot be done to the block? Accordingly either 1) You made a mistake with the original purchase 2) You were hoping to “catch” someone who has not properly done their own due diligence or 3) Back to my earlier comment you do not have a) The time b) The expertise or c) The funds to do it yourself.
-Not allowing a delayed settlement on a "development block". Your potential pool of buyers has been decreased………..
Twenty two years……….. Where’s the "retirement" plan?
Enjoy the journey.
Cheers,
Sunstone.
flood levels revisited
Hi guys in the process of purchasing a house and land at the moment that is suitable for development. It's got the right zoning for multi residential development.
When I first began my due diligence the councils flood overlays showed the block to be totally submerged so I thought the block wasn't a viable proposition. After further investigation and some one on one discussions with the council I discovered that the Q100 flood levels had been reassesed and the block I was interested in had only one corner effected by the levels. I feel the previous owners had come across the Q100 level problems before so didn't think the project was a viable one and of course it wouldn't have been according to the old Q100 levels.
I just happened to come along at the right time and I think I've picked up a bargain as a similar size block higher up the street that is definately above the old Q100 levels is priced 50K higher than the block I'm purchasing.
It pays to do your due diligence before purchasing, you never know councils do change zonings and flood levels from time to time.
Some issues that came out of the discussions with council on flood levels are any habitable areas need to be 250mm higher than the Q100 levels. You can build non-habital areas (garages, laundries etc) in the flood zone but you will require a flood assesment prepared by an engineer.
Hope this helps
giveitago
Hi guys in the process of purchasing a house and land at the moment that is suitable for development. It's got the right zoning for multi residential development.
When I first began my due diligence the councils flood overlays showed the block to be totally submerged so I thought the block wasn't a viable proposition. After further investigation and some one on one discussions with the council I discovered that the Q100 flood levels had been reassesed and the block I was interested in had only one corner effected by the levels. I feel the previous owners had come across the Q100 level problems before so didn't think the project was a viable one and of course it wouldn't have been according to the old Q100 levels.
I just happened to come along at the right time and I think I've picked up a bargain as a similar size block higher up the street that is definately above the old Q100 levels is priced 50K higher than the block I'm purchasing.
It pays to do your due diligence before purchasing, you never know councils do change zonings and flood levels from time to time.
Some issues that came out of the discussions with council on flood levels are any habitable areas need to be 250mm higher than the Q100 levels. You can build non-habital areas (garages, laundries etc) in the flood zone but you will require a flood assesment prepared by an engineer.
Hope this helps
giveitago
Sunstone,
Yes it was 22 years ago,the first 7 at 17%interest rates,
its only time and experience,are you asking me about my retirement
plans,i will never retire,if that was your add in the tenders and quotes
last week good luck with the child care centre,and yes the block i sold yesterday
does have problems 847SM Block/lmr/ but the bcc Blocked my D/A..
But tommorow is another day.
good luck willair..
o
Yes it was 22 years ago,the first 7 at 17%interest rates,
its only time and experience,are you asking me about my retirement
plans,i will never retire,if that was your add in the tenders and quotes
last week good luck with the child care centre,and yes the block i sold yesterday
does have problems 847SM Block/lmr/ but the bcc Blocked my D/A..
But tommorow is another day.
good luck willair..
o
Dear Willair,
Too bad about the DA. We all win some and lose some.
There is always more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes it can simply be a case of bouncing the idea off another like minded investor/s. No one built the best mousetrap in the world on their own.
Yes tomorrow is always another day. We all do our best with the resources at our disposal.
Cheers,
Sunstone.
Just getting back to Devo's original question for a second ( ) in Brisbane for $200 you can have a meeting with a City Council Townplanner who will sit down and assess your plans (& probably look up or cite precedents) to give you some idea of the viability of your project.
All you need to do is a0 get a hold of their current housing codes & development assessment guides to ascertain if what you are proposing obviously crashes any council guidlines, then if it doesn't, gather together as much information & evidence as possible (photo's of your existing lot/s & the surrounding street scape/neighbouring properties + sketches or draft plans of what you propose) whatever you have got to give them the clearest possible picture of what you want to do. And from my initial discussions with the Ipswich Council it seems they may even offer this type of advice for free.
My best advice is for you to call the relevant council & arrange a face to face sit down with one of their townplanners or nearest reasonable facsimile thereof adn see what you can gleen from that process.
Goodluck
Jase.
) in Brisbane for $200 you can have a meeting with a City Council Townplanner who will sit down and assess your plans (& probably look up or cite precedents) to give you some idea of the viability of your project. All you need to do is a0 get a hold of their current housing codes & development assessment guides to ascertain if what you are proposing obviously crashes any council guidlines, then if it doesn't, gather together as much information & evidence as possible (photo's of your existing lot/s & the surrounding street scape/neighbouring properties + sketches or draft plans of what you propose) whatever you have got to give them the clearest possible picture of what you want to do. And from my initial discussions with the Ipswich Council it seems they may even offer this type of advice for free.
My best advice is for you to call the relevant council & arrange a face to face sit down with one of their townplanners or nearest reasonable facsimile thereof adn see what you can gleen from that process.
Goodluck
Jase.