Renos and traps

Hi All

Have been lurking for some time and learnt a lot thank you. Like many here my wife and I have been buying IP's and renovating them ourselves, but have just hit a snag in this process.

I'm fairly handy and can handle most reno challenges so have never engaged a builder and if we need a contractor it is usually just a plumber or electrician, doing all the grunt work ourselves along with painting, tiling, kitchen replacements etc.

Recently I was working on our current IP ( had ripped out the kitchen and was fitting new one ) when I was paid a visit from officialdom (QBSA) who wanted to know who the builder was as there was no sign out the front but obviously with the skip out front, building work was being done. ( nice enough bloke ). I told him there was no builder as this was my property and I was Owner Building and doing the work myself.

Fair enough, how much work are you doing? I'm ripping out the kitchen, replacing the bathroom, repainting the house and landscaping.

So what is that going to cost you? I figure around $15K. And what would it cost you if you had contractors carry out the work? I figure around $35K.

OK. So your project will cost you around $35K if you had contractors do the work? Yes.

Can I see your Owner Builders permit?

My what?

Your Owner Builders permit. Any work carried out over $11K requires an Owner Builders permit ( and that isn';t calculated on you doing the work and the savings you may make, it is calculated on the cost of having a contractor carry out the work)

Alarm bells. No Owner Builders permit. But it gets worse.

In the course of the conversation it comes out that I nwon't be living here and that it is an IP.

Now we are really in trouble. Why? Because an Owner Builders permit ( which we don't have ) is only for work you carry out on your PPR. It does not cover IP's or any property you do not reside in.

Next problem. I am now classed as an unlicenced contractor carrying out building works ( albeit on my own property) and am subject to the full weight of the law!!!

I'm now prevented from carrying out any further work on my property, I have to engage a builder to finish it, and I may be prosecuted for unlicenced contracting!!!


I've checked with my solicitor and he confirms what QBSA have said. Am now awaiting the outcome to see if they will prosecute. I've since made enquiries in a few other sates and it is the very similar.

Be warned!!

Flippin heck! Has the solicitor said what the worst scenario is? What is the fine for unlicensed contracting?
"Unlicensed contracting" must be happening everywhere in reality.

Geez I can see why you are using a number as your name. Tell them to get stuffed. Don't let them on the property unless they have a court order. Remove the skip. Keep renovating, just do it bit by bit. If they ask again then you are just replacing a cupboard or two. Keep each stage less than $11K in value.

This in unacceptable bullying tactics from people who have no right to bother you. It's unfortunate that they entrapped you by asking all those questions.

Just remember to get tradies for the plumbing and electrical, then you should have no troubles at all. Don't let them intimidate you.

Cheers
Pulse

So what kind of work do you need a builder for? Surely that is the more important than the dollars? Structural issues, obviously yes. $30k of landscaping? painting? $20k on new kitchen benches and cupboards? $20k of tiling work? I assumed that it would be for structural rather than cosmetic stuff....

I got around this by having a contract from the cabinetmaker who made the cupboards for me, a contract from the floor tiler, etc, so that the amount I did myself stayed under the $10k.

I had a contract from a builder for the installation of the new windows and doors. It was the builder that warned me about the legislation.

Chris

chrispy said:

I got around this by having a contract from the cabinetmaker who made the cupboards for me, a contract from the floor tiler, etc, so that the amount I did myself stayed under the $10k.

I had a contract from a builder for the installation of the new windows and doors. It was the builder that warned me about the legislation.

Chris

Click to expand...

Chrispy, do you know what the relevant legislation is called?

Buzz

The Contract states it complies with Domestic Building Contracts Act 2000

The Contract was the HIA February 2005 one - for Kitchen, Bathroom and Laundry

Hope that helps

Chris

Pulse

the $11K trigger applies only to property you are occupying. ANYTHING else you are working on and are caught it is automatically viewed as unlicenced contracting.

My understanding is that you must have all work over $1,100 inc GST done by a licenced contractor. On top of that, if the value of the work exceeds $3,300 then a contract must be in place. Also the value of the work is calculated at market rates and includes labour and material, not a price that you would be able to do it for yourself.

I was wondering, did the QBSA guy just happen to drive by? Or did someone tell him about it? I'm assuming your site doesn't look like an open coal mine or anything. How did they know about it?
Alex

I have just read the information on the Web site

http://www.bsa.qld.gov.au/Home/Default.htm

For Renovations:

My interpretation is that by being an Owner Builder you are not covered under the Insurance scheme and you have to undertake to guarantee the work for 7 years.

It does not say you have to live in the house. It talks about Homeowners.

Have a read and let us know what you believe it is saying

Interestingly enough it was updated on Friday 19th October 2007

Chris

I think you made a mistake in your calculations.
Any work you are doing will come to $10000.
eg buy some second hand dirt for lanscaping /benches etc

I've read that again.......you may be correct in noting it doesn't say you have to live in the house. It does say you can only do it once every 6 years and that a note goes on the title that Owner Built work has been carried out to the property. Bottom line is.

1. Any building work in Queensland that will cost more than $1,100 has to be carried out by a licenced contractor.

2. Any building work in Queensland valued at more than $3,300 must be carried out by a licenced contractor and have a contract in place

3. Any building work carried out by the homeowner that will cost more than $11,000 requires an Owner Builder permit and it will be noted on the property title. Only one permit will be issued every 6 years.

Hi all

Part 3 and 4 are a little concerning.


Part 2 Interpretation
Division 1 Dictionary
5 Definitions

The dictionary in schedule 2 defines particular words used in
this Act.
8 Meaning of domestic building work
(1) Each of the following is domestic building work—
(a) the erection or construction of a detached dwelling;
(b) the renovation, alteration, extension, improvement or
repair of a home;
(c) removal or resiting work for a detached dwelling.

(2) However—
(a) removal work for a detached dwelling is domestic
building work only if the dwelling is intended to be
resited at another place and used, at the place, as
residential premises; and
(b) resiting work for a detached dwelling is domestic
building work only if the dwelling is intended to be used
at the place at which it is being resited as residential
premises.

(3) Domestic building work includes—
(a) work (associated work) associated with the erection,
construction, removal or resiting of a detached dwelling;
and
(b) work (associated work) associated with the renovation,
alteration, extension, improvement or repair of a home.

(4) Without limiting subsection (3), associated work includes—
(a) landscaping; and
(c) the erection or construction of a building or fixture
associated with the detached dwelling or home.
Examples of buildings and fixtures for subsection (4)(c)—
Retaining structures, driveways, fencing, garages, carports, workshops,
swimming pools and spas.

(5) For the erection or construction of a detached dwelling,
domestic building work includes the provision of services or
facilities to the dwelling or the property on which the dwelling
is, or is to be, situated.

(6) For the renovation, alteration, extension, improvement or
repair of a home, domestic building work includes the
provision of services or facilities to the home or the property
on which the home is situated.
Examples of services and facilities for subsections (5) and (6)—
Lighting, heating, ventilation, air conditioning, water supply, sewerage
and drainage.

(7) Also, domestic building work includes—
(a) site work relating to work mentioned in subsection (1),
(3), (5) or (6); and
(b) work declared under a regulation to be domestic
building work if there are reasonable grounds for
considering the work to be domestic building work.

(8) However, domestic building work does not include excluded
building work.

(9) In this section—
(a) a reference to a detached dwelling includes a reference
to any part of a detached dwelling; and
(b) a reference to a home includes a reference to any part of
a home; and
(c) a reference to site work includes a reference to work
required to be carried out to gain access, or to remove
impediments to access, to a site.

Hi all

All I can say is " Oh my God"!!!!

Ok, I guess the next question is " how does one become a Licenced Builder ?"

I do know from the Martin Ayles seminar that there is a "supervisors licence" in S.A which is more of a permit to allow you to supervise building sites.

Another question comes up " what about developers that say sub out most of the building works and then finishes it off ? "

I think I better do a bit more checking in W.A.

WBG Redcliffe said:

(4) Without limiting subsection (3), associated work includes—
(a) landscaping

Click to expand...

You can't even do more than $1,100 of landscaping. That's the cost of rolling one of those new fandangled barbies around the back.

How bloody unAustralian. Forget workchoices, get Johnny on the line.

Seriously folks, how many rules do we have to have in this country. My parents built their house with their own hands. It still stands today over 45 years later, the only cracks are where a licenced builder added an addition.

I understand the need to protect the public, but an $1,100 limit is a joke.

And some of you are worried about unions.........ROTFLMAO.

Simple point is that there are rules.

You break them (and get caught) you pay the consequences. If you don't like them, then lobby to have them changed.

Whilst I'm sympathetic to 223770's plight, ignorance is no excuse.

Can't honestly help but think that he's upset someone though and this is the payback.

ciao

Nor

Norwester said:

Can't honestly help but think that he's upset someone though and this is the payback.

Click to expand...

NW,

From my experience some people are easily put out... no real reason required.

You are of course correct, there are rules and ignorance is not bliss.

Regards

Andrew

My understanding is that you must have all work over $1,100 inc GST done by a licenced contractor. On top of that, if the value of the work exceeds $3,300 then a contract must be in place. Also the value of the work is calculated at market rates and includes labour and material, not a price that you would be able to do it for yourself.

Click to expand...

So painting the house needs a licenced contractor.......?
Something really wrong here

Just had a quick look at the Victorian website. I am definately no expert here but the way I read it
a) You need a building permit for certain types of work only:

As part of the Building Regulations 2006 building permit requirements are now based on the scope of building work rather than the value of work

Click to expand...

b) If you are an owner builder you need a "Certificate of Consent" to get a building permit

Owner-builders must obtain a Certificate of Consent for any domestic building work with a value over $12,000 in order to obtain a building permit

Click to expand...

c) If the Value of the work is less than 12k or you don't need a building permit, you dont need a "Certificate of Consent". You can therefore get on with the job (owner builder or not).

http://www.buildingcommission.com.au