As an owner, what can strata councils actually do to me?

Hi guys, first time poster, long time lurker.

I've recently had a bit of a dispute with my strata council. They're refusing me permission to install an air conditioner and I'm just going to do it anyway. What can they actually do to me in retaliation? I mean, I OWN the place, they can't force me to move out or to sell it can they? What actually happens? Everyone I've spoken to says "they can't really do much", but can't give any specifics.

Well,

If the air conditioner requires a compressor thing to be fixed to an external wall, they probably will remove it, as you don't own the external wall.

They (the strata company, on behalf of all owners) can get a determination from the relevant tribunal that requires you to remove it. Not sure if they can also get you fined or not, but if the AC was left in, it would be determined to be an illegal addition. This would have impact on your capacity to sell the property, as potential purchasers would need to be formally advised of the illegal addition. If they were not advised and found out after putting in an offer, their offer could be invalidated and they could withdraw from their offer with no penalty.

The reason why you can be refused permission to put in an AC is because in WA all that the owner owns is the inside of the unit, from the paint in, or the flooring up. As soon as you breach these (eg by installing an AC unit) you are breaching common property. Hence the council's capacity to refuse. (As an example, if you're on a first floor or higher, they can also get an order to make you remove floating floorboards if they are too noisy for your neighbours.)

That's my understanding of it anyhow.... my mum was a strata manager for 30+ years, so I've picked up bits and pieces along the way!

How have you put it to the council of owners? Did you say you would ensure it would blend with the aesthetics of the exterior etc? How have other owners in the complex received permission in the past? Might be worth a chat to them about how they got it past the council. This may not be a dead cause yet!

It's on a third-floor balcony, completely hidden from external view, so unless they're spiderman with x-ray vision, they won't even know I've installed it.

The reason it's being declined is because they say there needs to be a power transformer update. They've stated that they'll approve the air conditioner once the transformer has been installed, and they also said that it was going to be installed last month, only to now find out it's still months away.

There are other units with air conditioners already installed and they're using them just fine. They've also stated that I'm more than free to purchase a 1.5HP portable unit, but even the same sized motor in a fixed unit, no dice.

I was happy enough to wait until this past month to have the unit installed, but given their apparent incompetency, I figure I should just do whatever I want and sort the rest out later. I just wanted to find out if they had the legal right to kick my door down, murder my pets and force me to live on the street or something, I have no real idea what power they have.

ritontor said:

I just wanted to find out if they had the legal right to kick my door down, murder my pets and force me to live on the street or something, I have no real idea what power they have.

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Nah, as Jen_PFR said, they do have the power to have it removed and have you fined though. The fine could amount to a couple of $thousand.

The alternative is that you take the BC to governing department for refusal to install and this would at least focus their minds to rush the upgrade of the electricals.

As a side note please ensure that you run all waste water (condense) to a drain. I have seen a lot of cowboy installations which just run the water off the balconies and this will do irreparable damage over time as the water soaks into the concrete.

Cheers

Propertunity said:

Nah, as Jen_PFR said, they do have the power to have it removed and have you fined though. The fine could amount to a couple of $thousand.

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They can definitely have a fine levied against me? At penalty of what, as in, if I just refuse to pay it, does it land me in the joint?

I know this isn't answering your question, but do you really want to go against the body corporate rules? If the rules were there when you bought, then you accepted those rules. If you don't agree with them, try and get them changed, but I wouldn't encourage going against the rules. They are there for a reason, and if everyone decided to do whatever they wanted with no respect for the rules, imagine what a mess the building would be become.

Its a silly attitude to take.

Would you really be a happy person/owner if every other strata residents in your complex takes a similar idea and does something to the common property that you dislike?

ritontor said:

They can definitely have a fine levied against me? At penalty of what, as in, if I just refuse to pay it, does it land me in the joint?

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Refusal to pay Body Corp fees/levies/charges/fines results in the same thing that would happen if you didn't pay your phone bill... eventual pursual by a debt-collection agency and a bad mark on your credit file.

chilliblue said:

Its a silly attitude to take.

Would you really be a happy person/owner if every other strata residents in your complex takes a similar idea and does something to the common property that you dislike?

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A bit early in the monring for me to be calling people or thoughts taht pass through their minds when unsure what to do names like silly, so I will take another view instead.

The guy approached the body corproate who refused making him feel like he's asking for something wrong / more than an owner should

He gets told to wait a month adn wil get approval.. Then up to 2 months later he continues see the diorganised bunch of owners in a display of the joke "how many councillors does it take to organise upgrade of RCD so people can go on with their lives like they should be entitled to , even if that means forking out $1k+ for aircon)"

In a lot of cases, strata are terribly managed and nothing is done until somethign hits the fan - no one likes to admit this though, so wshen eve challenenged by someone who is not happy with a deciosn made, they point to the rule books (which they have been ignoring all this time bt not managing the property properly)

If I was on the council, I woudl have thought my repsonsibility would be to give the perosn requesting a rough DATE when the RCD woiuld be upgreded and they would be able to instal ltheir air con - nothing in rules seems to be stopping this except the council dragging their feet (I know they are 'volunteeers, I am a vounteeer councillor, was also a volunteer board remember, even volunteers have a 'responsibility' to do their 'job' properly)

Not sure about the rules in WA as every state has their own rules.

BUT in QLD

The BC (or Strata council in WA) cannot discriminate against owners, so if some owner have a/c then their has too be a good reason for refusing you. If they claim it is a power issue then the BC needs to fix this so that you are not discriminated against. In QLD their is an arbitration process which is cheap and binding and if you went to them from what you have said I would guess they would find in your favour and demand the BC fix the power issue so that you can have a/c like your neighbours.

As for fines you would only have to show the BC was being unreasonable in denighing you permission when it has granted permission to other owners to avoid fines. The BC cannot impose fines, that has to come from the adjudicators but the fines in QLD are up to $40,000 and so they are not to be taken lightly.

We owned a unit in a complex where an owner installed an air conditioner after having been refused permission. Legal action followed and he was forced to remove the air conditioner and make good any evidence of its installation.

A lot of ill-feeling was generated because of the legal expenses the body corporate incurred (which came out of unit owners' levies), and the owner eventually sold the unit.
Marg

marg4000 said:

We owned a unit in a complex where an owner installed an air conditioner after having been refused permission. Legal action followed and he was forced to remove the air conditioner and make good any evidence of its installation.

A lot of ill-feeling was generated because of the legal expenses the body corporate incurred (which came out of unit owners' levies), and the owner eventually sold the unit.
Marg

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Marge, in hidsight, do you think it was a good idea to spend so much of the owners' money on legal fees that caused so much ill feeling etc between the owners ?

I have been in this situation before and believe it is a good use of the owners corporation money. what happens next if everyone wants an air conditioner affixed to the common property? What if someone doesn't want an air conditioner but want to put an instantaneous gas hot water system on the outside of their unit?

The strata rules are very clear and unless you want people affixing what ever they like to the outside of the building which will dimish both its value and market appeal i would suggest you don't do it.

ritontor said:

The reason it's being declined is because they say there needs to be a power transformer update. They've stated that they'll approve the air conditioner once the transformer has been installed, and they also said that it was going to be installed last month, only to now find out it's still months away.

There are other units with air conditioners already installed and they're using them just fine.

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This is where Im a bit confused.

Why have other owners been allowed but you disallowed?

Are they saying that if you put yours in it will overload the circuit? Which indicates the apartment is already operating at a dangerous capacity?

jaycee said:

Marge, in hidsight, do you think it was a good idea to spend so much of the owners' money on legal fees that caused so much ill feeling etc between the owners ?

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It was not the amount of money that was spent, the dollar cost was not high and there were 80 units to share. It was the fact that, had the owner followed the correct procedures the expenditure would have been unnecessary.

The owner came across as very bombastic and self-opinionated, and seemed to believe he knew best and could just do as he liked. That was the main source of the bad feelings, the fact that the body corporate had to spend money because he basically ignored them was simply salt in the wound.

We were not involved as it was an IP and we only knew about it from minutes of meetings.
Marg

neK said:

This is where Im a bit confused.

Why have other owners been allowed but you disallowed?

Are they saying that if you put yours in it will overload the circuit? Which indicates the apartment is already operating at a dangerous capacity?

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I'm not sure why others have been allowed, they said "they're not allowed to use them", however they do, just the other night there were air conditioners operating. As to dangerous capacity, they haven't said, and it's certainly a good point - I wouldn't want to install an air conditioner, turn it on and explode the entire apartment block. They HAVE said however that I'm allowed to get a *portable* unit, even up to the 1.5HP that I want for the wall mounted unit. Same power usage, just portable instead of wall mounted.

My guess is there's power to spare, they are just casting some blanket ruling about "no fixed air conditioners until power upgrade" because if EVERYONE went out and got an air conditioner tomorrow, there would be a power issue. Or perhaps there's plenty of power, and the transformer upgrade is to permit usage of air conditioners above a certain HP rating - they haven't said.

chilliblue said:

Its a silly attitude to take.

Would you really be a happy person/owner if every other strata residents in your complex takes a similar idea and does something to the common property that you dislike?

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Agreed. If a person chooses to live in a strata titled building, they should follow the rules.

The OP seems to care little for the regulations or the feelings of his neighbors. He seems like the sort of person to make trouble; the sort of "me, myself,I" bloke who has no difficulties in living next to people he has managed to upset.

It's folks like the OP who keep me away from investing in units.

ritontor said:

The reason it's being declined is because they say there needs to be a power transformer update.

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ritontor said:

My guess is there's power to spare, they are just casting some blanket ruling about "no fixed air conditioners until power upgrade" because if EVERYONE went out and got an air conditioner tomorrow, there would be a power issue.

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ritontor said:

They've also stated that I'm more than free to purchase a 1.5HP portable unit, but even the same sized motor in a fixed unit, no dice.

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ritontor said:

I'm not sure why others have been allowed, they said "they're not allowed to use them", however they do, just the other night there were air conditioners operating.

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I bet I can guess what's going on here.

The strata council have received advice that there's an issue, or potential issue, with the transformer capacity, and that they mustn't approve anything which increases the overall load prior to the transformer being upgraded. After receiving that advice, they must adhere to it, or they jeopardise the building insurance. ie If the building burned down due to an electrical issue, there'd be no coverage for anybody if they'd approved your air-conditioner prior to the transformer upgrade.

What you do within your unit - eg using a portable unit - is covered by your public liability insurer and is between you and them; what you do on common property is covered by the strata's insurer. If the strata has been advised that they shouldn't allow the overall power load to be increased until the transformer upgrade, and they had given permission for you to install a fixed unit, it would probably invalidate the whole complex's public liability insurance.

I'm sure you don't really expect your fellow owners to risk a fire burning down the whole complex without coverage because you're impatient for some cooler air.

The fact that they've issued directives to people not to use their air-conditioners supports my assumption. The strata doesn't really care whether people do use them or not, but issuing the directive ensures the insurance stays valid, because the strata council is overtly "doing the right thing".

Given that there is a completely rational and reasonable explanation for them declining approval, I think you should be reasonable and comply. Work to hurry along the transformer upgrade if you can, but be aware that the people on the council are simply doing their job and protecting the legal position of all owners - including you!

It's not personal; don't make it personal by getting emotional and confrontational about it.