cost of maintaining a Ferrari?
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Nice posts - informative and insightful.
And congrats to those who have climbed the I.T. ladder to reach positions that not only pay well, but also bring them a lot of satisfaction and joy.
But I don't care what way you slice it - a job is a job. Telling Mero (or anyone for that matter) to invest his time and energy in a career that might bring him a job to justify his 3 years at university is not what we should be preaching to this kid.
My initial contention was that things aren’t as rosy and rewarding as they use to be say 5-8 years ago – and that’s true - but the subsequent posts, although painting a picture that I.T. is not all doom and gloom did also push the claim that through hard work, training and determination you can reach a top position within the industry. And that’s probably true. But why would you bother when asset building strategies like property investing and shares will bring you a level of wealth, freedom and happiness that an I.T. career never will.
I say invest you time and energy in things that don’t serve to keep you a slave to the system.
In other words, studying for an MCSA or OCP will not bring you financial independence - painting your IP will. And in the end, that’s all that matters – being financially free so you can live the life you choose. And you want to get there as fast as possible.
In summary, take those 35K jobs, keep a low profile and invest all your time and effort in educating yourself about property investment, and NOT how to improve your I.T. skills so you can impress your boss with a nice .NET application.
And congrats to those who have climbed the I.T. ladder to reach positions that not only pay well, but also bring them a lot of satisfaction and joy.
But I don't care what way you slice it - a job is a job. Telling Mero (or anyone for that matter) to invest his time and energy in a career that might bring him a job to justify his 3 years at university is not what we should be preaching to this kid.
My initial contention was that things aren’t as rosy and rewarding as they use to be say 5-8 years ago – and that’s true - but the subsequent posts, although painting a picture that I.T. is not all doom and gloom did also push the claim that through hard work, training and determination you can reach a top position within the industry. And that’s probably true. But why would you bother when asset building strategies like property investing and shares will bring you a level of wealth, freedom and happiness that an I.T. career never will.
I say invest you time and energy in things that don’t serve to keep you a slave to the system.
In other words, studying for an MCSA or OCP will not bring you financial independence - painting your IP will. And in the end, that’s all that matters – being financially free so you can live the life you choose. And you want to get there as fast as possible.
In summary, take those 35K jobs, keep a low profile and invest all your time and effort in educating yourself about property investment, and NOT how to improve your I.T. skills so you can impress your boss with a nice .NET application.
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Grubar me old matie,grubar30 said:
Its a little thing called Debt Servicing. If you want to grow an investment portfolio then you need some seed money to invest and an income to service the loan. The more income you have, the higher your DSR.
I agree that you need "your money to work for you" more than "you work for your money", but its a balancing act. It certainly doesn't hurt to have a nice fat 6-figure salary, it certainly accelerates my plan!
Cheers,
Michael.
Grubar,
Might agree to disagree. I think jobs are good, they grease the wheels that allow you to save for that deposit on a house etc.
Working for the man and working for yourself don't have to be mutually exclusive, you can do both. Why not work in your job between 9 and 5, then after 5 study share trading, or paint a wall in a house etc.
Might agree to disagree. I think jobs are good, they grease the wheels that allow you to save for that deposit on a house etc.
Working for the man and working for yourself don't have to be mutually exclusive, you can do both. Why not work in your job between 9 and 5, then after 5 study share trading, or paint a wall in a house etc.
Hi Michael,
Hi Glebe,
I say let's dare to be different. Let's show this kid the way. Let's de-program his mind. It's society that pushes these notions of “get good grades”, “go to uni”, “get a good job”, “build up your skills”, "get a better job”, etc.
Whatever! It's crap and hogwash.
Mero, run to Bunning’s now and pick up the latest Dulex colours and a nice Spirit paint brush and start painting. And don’t ever doubt that this is not the way!
George
Yes it doesn't. I fully agree. But he'll get there from 35K per year a whole lot faster through property investing. That's my point.
Hi Glebe,
Yep, I'm applying this very principle myself - as are others on this forum. I just wished someone would have woken me to this when I was 20 years old, instead of pushing a career in I.T.
I say let's dare to be different. Let's show this kid the way. Let's de-program his mind. It's society that pushes these notions of “get good grades”, “go to uni”, “get a good job”, “build up your skills”, "get a better job”, etc.
Whatever! It's crap and hogwash.
Mero, run to Bunning’s now and pick up the latest Dulex colours and a nice Spirit paint brush and start painting. And don’t ever doubt that this is not the way!
George
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Sim
Administrator
Trust me, a 6 figure salary with a well known and respected IT company opens a LOT of doors when it comes to financing and servicability !
Having a job won't preclude you from doing well financially. But I do agree that it is not the only way.
However, some people aren't ready at that age to do it all on their own - getting a good financial base through a salary can be a good place to start, so long as they keep in mind the reason they are doing so - it's a means to an end and they should be spending their time working on an exit plan rather than a career path (other than short term maximising of salary).
Having a job won't preclude you from doing well financially. But I do agree that it is not the only way.
However, some people aren't ready at that age to do it all on their own - getting a good financial base through a salary can be a good place to start, so long as they keep in mind the reason they are doing so - it's a means to an end and they should be spending their time working on an exit plan rather than a career path (other than short term maximising of salary).
Agree with SIM,
I was always looking at my exit plan even whilst pursuing more salary from my employment. I'm not there yet, but well on my way and it accelerates as you get older and more assets. I'm at an exciting stage now, which was faccilitated by a lot of hard work in my career as well as a lot of hard work honing my investment skills and putting them in to practice.
You need to focus on both. As I said before, its a necessary balance that's required. I'm not advocating that Mero forgets about REI and just knuckles down and works hard in his IT career. But at his point in life, an emphasis on career is probably more productive than an emphasis on investing.
When you get a decent salary and can afford to buy in to REI then do so. As your assets grow and your salary likewise, you can afford to shift the emphasis mroe to investing. I recently changed jobs from consulting back to industry so I could have a "steady job". I'm still an executive, but I can do this job with my eyes shut. I now put most of my effort in to investing and enough in to my job to make sure I dot the I's and cross the T's. I'll continue to grow my career, but that's not my primary focus now.
Just my thoughts,
Michael.
I was always looking at my exit plan even whilst pursuing more salary from my employment. I'm not there yet, but well on my way and it accelerates as you get older and more assets. I'm at an exciting stage now, which was faccilitated by a lot of hard work in my career as well as a lot of hard work honing my investment skills and putting them in to practice.
You need to focus on both. As I said before, its a necessary balance that's required. I'm not advocating that Mero forgets about REI and just knuckles down and works hard in his IT career. But at his point in life, an emphasis on career is probably more productive than an emphasis on investing.
When you get a decent salary and can afford to buy in to REI then do so. As your assets grow and your salary likewise, you can afford to shift the emphasis mroe to investing. I recently changed jobs from consulting back to industry so I could have a "steady job". I'm still an executive, but I can do this job with my eyes shut. I now put most of my effort in to investing and enough in to my job to make sure I dot the I's and cross the T's. I'll continue to grow my career, but that's not my primary focus now.
Just my thoughts,
Michael.
Get good grades (maybe), Go to Uni (maybe Trade), Get a reasonably well paying job, Get property, Get a Business, (business / property could be flipped around), Get shares, become wealthy.
I was going to bag the extra study but for me it has worked out OK, I'm not going to do an MBA though, don't see any reason. The salary increase is coming from purchasing business's that are managed which will provide me something to do and better income.
For the last 3 years I've ignored the study hard and claw your way up the corporate ladder to increase the salary. I've got my cash from investments. The salary has been enough to fund the borrowings for the investments. Could have done it better but that's normal.
In the end I'll get my Rari.
SO take the job at lowish pay, learn, move, learn, etc.
My first job out of Uni was at $20k and I'm only on $65k now. You don't need to earn $100k+ from the JOB to become wealthy.
Cheers
quoll
PS at 20 I was an unemployed beach bum.
I was going to bag the extra study but for me it has worked out OK, I'm not going to do an MBA though, don't see any reason. The salary increase is coming from purchasing business's that are managed which will provide me something to do and better income.
For the last 3 years I've ignored the study hard and claw your way up the corporate ladder to increase the salary. I've got my cash from investments. The salary has been enough to fund the borrowings for the investments. Could have done it better but that's normal.
In the end I'll get my Rari.
SO take the job at lowish pay, learn, move, learn, etc.
My first job out of Uni was at $20k and I'm only on $65k now. You don't need to earn $100k+ from the JOB to become wealthy.
Cheers
quoll
PS at 20 I was an unemployed beach bum.
Quoll,
Nice one! And well done!!
I guess part of my thinking is probably self-validation. Its hard to look back and say "You know what, even though I'm a very successful businessman, I could have done things differently and been even more successful and more wealthy". At least I'm smart enough to know where I should be investing the bulk of my effort right now!
Back on the fast track...
Cheers,
Michael.
Nice one! And well done!!
I guess part of my thinking is probably self-validation. Its hard to look back and say "You know what, even though I'm a very successful businessman, I could have done things differently and been even more successful and more wealthy". At least I'm smart enough to know where I should be investing the bulk of my effort right now!
Back on the fast track...
Cheers,
Michael.
I too started in IT on $25K (but that was almost 20 yrs ago). I lasted about a year on that, became a contractor/consultant & at least doubled salary. The next 15 yrs was on a steadily increasing income, with low costs - ran my own company with it's associated tax advantages.
It taught me to plan for the future (contracts were usually 3 months) and also independance. I always assumed a contract would end in 3 months (it never did - it was always extended), and planned/invested accordingly. It enabled me to work in various countries, cultures, companies (even IBM). I never expected to be looked after by any employer, & lots of the 'normal' IT employees weren't. I lived & died by my skills - it wasn't too hard to keep up to date - I generalised (C, C++ & java). Specialisations tended to go out of fashion or were superceeded & job opportunities were limited.
Nowadays, I feel IT is mostly a commodity and is priced accordingly. I got out 3 yrs ago - I think I was lucky to have the best 15 yrs of the industry. I don't think the next 15 yrs will provide the same opportunities as easily.
It taught me to plan for the future (contracts were usually 3 months) and also independance. I always assumed a contract would end in 3 months (it never did - it was always extended), and planned/invested accordingly. It enabled me to work in various countries, cultures, companies (even IBM). I never expected to be looked after by any employer, & lots of the 'normal' IT employees weren't. I lived & died by my skills - it wasn't too hard to keep up to date - I generalised (C, C++ & java). Specialisations tended to go out of fashion or were superceeded & job opportunities were limited.
Nowadays, I feel IT is mostly a commodity and is priced accordingly. I got out 3 yrs ago - I think I was lucky to have the best 15 yrs of the industry. I don't think the next 15 yrs will provide the same opportunities as easily.
simply put, your life is what you make it, everything you think and feel is in your control. if you're not happy with your situation, it's your fault, and only you can fix it.
i dont believe a salary is going to make me rich, which is why im studying postgraduate applied finance and investing in property. however im passionate about what i do, and (imo) im pretty good at it.
you are not your job title or your paycheque. if you went to uni straight from high school i would reccomend going to do a bit of travel. some time away will help you sort out what you want to do. the yields so low and the sharemarket down, you're not going to miss much if you're away for 6 - 12 months. time invested in personal growth is rarely regretted.
steve mcknight got started cause he hated his job as an accountant
[edit] oh and my first IT job was $25k p/a.
i dont believe a salary is going to make me rich, which is why im studying postgraduate applied finance and investing in property. however im passionate about what i do, and (imo) im pretty good at it.
you are not your job title or your paycheque. if you went to uni straight from high school i would reccomend going to do a bit of travel. some time away will help you sort out what you want to do. the yields so low and the sharemarket down, you're not going to miss much if you're away for 6 - 12 months. time invested in personal growth is rarely regretted.
steve mcknight got started cause he hated his job as an accountant
[edit] oh and my first IT job was $25k p/a.
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Sim
Administrator
pete_w said:
When I'm not living out of a hotel room, I work from home, up at 8:00am (or soon after), commute is about 60 seconds (across the hall via the bathroom), and I'm at work and being productive within a couple of minutes of waking up.
I usually try and finish work by about 6pm - sometimes if I have a big project I'll get back into it after dinner again for a couple of hours. Usually this time is reserved for personal projects, or study, or managing the investments (or it's "wife time" if she isn't also working or studying).
I aim to be in bed by midnight (don't always achieve that) - and if I do, it gives me a good 8 hours of sleep.
I'd really hate to have to go back to commuting - such a waste of time - although if you take the bus / train and can use the time for catching up on reading it can be valuable ... I only get to do that on plane trips. Listening to tapes in the car can be good too I suppose, but last time I checked, they don't put the Financial Review on audio tape each day !
It's a good life if you can get it. Suits me well, and I consider myself very fortunate to have such a flexible job that also pays well.
I certainly don't intend to stay here forever though - too many other interesting things to do in life ! It's just another means to an end.
Wow. This thread has really taken off!
Your input, (everyone), is greatly appreciated. Now I know why I keep coming back to the forum each day...
I feel I should clarify a few things. In my previous post I said things which came out the wrong way.
I see where you're coming from. The old adage of "it's not how much one earns, it's how it's used".
I also agree that it is not all doom and gloom for IT graduates. In the last year, the number of IT jobs seems to have increased dramatically, after their scarcity around 2000.
Well, assuming 3% inflation over 15 years, that would be $38,349 today which is about the same.
I made a comment earlier about starting salaries. To clarify, at my age, $35K is a huge amount of money to me — especially since I've never earned more than $6K per year while at university. Also, we had industry speakers who came in during the degree talking about "life after graduating". Most of them tended to say that they would "offer a $40K base salary to any IT graduate, and depending on their communications skills, up to $50K". Basically since those talks I had made false preconceptions about things, and they were wrong. I've noticed that doing my own research whilst looking for employment has painted a different picture, and I am thankful that this picture is being painted now and not in the future.
Seriously though, I would never scoff at a $35K figure. Being a university graduate, to me, the only direction I can go is up. I understand that as I become more proficient with my skills, and acquire more skills that are adaptable in the workplace, I would become a more valuable employee and hence increase the chances of "climbing the ladder".
Heck, $35K to me is impressive. It's more than my mum earns now in her mid-40s. It's more than everyone on my dad's side of the family earn, (believe it or not). I consider myself extremely fortunate to have taken the advice to go to university and get a head start in life.
I agree — that's all I have considered it to be. And looking back on what I have learned in the last 3 years, it really is amazing.
As for the job, if I'm offered it, there's absolutely no way I'd turn it down!
Agreed. I just can't wait to run — I'm too eager.
That is my first investing goal. I don't see the point of buying doodads like there's no tomorrow at my age, when I could be paving my own path to financial independence. Of course, one has to buy some useless rubbish, as smelling the roses once in a while makes it all worthwhile...
Thanks Sim, your rules make complete sense. Thanks.
I strike a chord with statement, but I also think that a job, while providing monetary benefits to one's investing goals, also provides much more to the individual, including experience; attitude; (great posts on attidue above — my thanks ); people skills; etc...
I believe that a job, especially at my age, will enable me to learn and grow as a person, intellectually, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. (Great, now I sound like a philosopher ). Having a job in my opinion, would be of great benefit to me later in life, I'm sure of it. In fact I bet on it.
Yes and no. I intend to take the first job I'm successfully offered, (doing otherwise would be stupid by anyone's standards, unless there was a real problem in taking the job), and quietly build my financial independence. I also intend to improve my IT skills, as I enjoy writing software and solving problem using software. My goal isn't to move all the way up the corporate ladder, but going somewhere at least, up the ladder, can only be of benefit, in my opinion.
My thoughts exactly.
Well, I consider myself extremely lucky and privileged to have been exposed to these concepts at my age. Many here wish they'd have been exposed to this stuff at 20.
No point. Got no IP to paint, hence the need for a deposit, and hence the need for a job, (or some other way of creating an income, for that matter).
I agree 100%. Hence my current job hunting. It's annoying sometimes being a potential employer's second choice in a game where there's no second place.
I 100% agree.
Well, I'm sick of typing now so I'm going to stop.
I hope my attempt to disclose my views and goals has worked...
Until later, thanks.
Your input, (everyone), is greatly appreciated. Now I know why I keep coming back to the forum each day...
I feel I should clarify a few things. In my previous post I said things which came out the wrong way.
grubar30 said:
I see where you're coming from. The old adage of "it's not how much one earns, it's how it's used".
MichaelWhyte said:
I also agree that it is not all doom and gloom for IT graduates. In the last year, the number of IT jobs seems to have increased dramatically, after their scarcity around 2000.
MichaelWhyte said:
Well, assuming 3% inflation over 15 years, that would be $38,349 today which is about the same.
I made a comment earlier about starting salaries. To clarify, at my age, $35K is a huge amount of money to me — especially since I've never earned more than $6K per year while at university. Also, we had industry speakers who came in during the degree talking about "life after graduating". Most of them tended to say that they would "offer a $40K base salary to any IT graduate, and depending on their communications skills, up to $50K". Basically since those talks I had made false preconceptions about things, and they were wrong. I've noticed that doing my own research whilst looking for employment has painted a different picture, and I am thankful that this picture is being painted now and not in the future.
Seriously though, I would never scoff at a $35K figure. Being a university graduate, to me, the only direction I can go is up. I understand that as I become more proficient with my skills, and acquire more skills that are adaptable in the workplace, I would become a more valuable employee and hence increase the chances of "climbing the ladder".
Heck, $35K to me is impressive. It's more than my mum earns now in her mid-40s. It's more than everyone on my dad's side of the family earn, (believe it or not). I consider myself extremely fortunate to have taken the advice to go to university and get a head start in life.
MichaelWhyte said:
I agree — that's all I have considered it to be. And looking back on what I have learned in the last 3 years, it really is amazing.
As for the job, if I'm offered it, there's absolutely no way I'd turn it down!
Sultan of Swing said:
Agreed. I just can't wait to run — I'm too eager.
grubar30 said:
That is my first investing goal. I don't see the point of buying doodads like there's no tomorrow at my age, when I could be paving my own path to financial independence. Of course, one has to buy some useless rubbish, as smelling the roses once in a while makes it all worthwhile...
Sim said:
Thanks Sim, your rules make complete sense. Thanks.
grubar30 said:
I strike a chord with statement, but I also think that a job, while providing monetary benefits to one's investing goals, also provides much more to the individual, including experience; attitude; (great posts on attidue above — my thanks
); people skills; etc... I believe that a job, especially at my age, will enable me to learn and grow as a person, intellectually, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. (Great, now I sound like a philosopher
). Having a job in my opinion, would be of great benefit to me later in life, I'm sure of it. In fact I bet on it. grubar30 said:
Yes and no. I intend to take the first job I'm successfully offered, (doing otherwise would be stupid by anyone's standards, unless there was a real problem in taking the job), and quietly build my financial independence. I also intend to improve my IT skills, as I enjoy writing software and solving problem using software. My goal isn't to move all the way up the corporate ladder, but going somewhere at least, up the ladder, can only be of benefit, in my opinion.
MichaelWhyte said:
My thoughts exactly.
grubar30 said:
Well, I consider myself extremely lucky and privileged to have been exposed to these concepts at my age. Many here wish they'd have been exposed to this stuff at 20.
grubar30 said:
No point. Got no IP to paint, hence the need for a deposit, and hence the need for a job, (or some other way of creating an income, for that matter).
MichaelWhyte said:
I agree 100%. Hence my current job hunting. It's annoying sometimes being a potential employer's second choice in a game where there's no second place.
pete_w said:
I 100% agree.
Well, I'm sick of typing now so I'm going to stop.
I hope my attempt to disclose my views and goals has worked...
Until later, thanks.
Had a slow week at work and been looking at used cars. There seems to plenty of choice around the ~$120k mark,
Jaguar XKR Convertible
Ferrari 328
What's the best way to finance a nice car?
Seems a waste to use cash. Would seem like a better idea to find an asset that could generate enough cashflow to cover interest payments on the car and then borrow to purchase the car.
What about purchasing in a company?
Ideas?
quoll
Jaguar XKR Convertible
Ferrari 328
What's the best way to finance a nice car?
Seems a waste to use cash. Would seem like a better idea to find an asset that could generate enough cashflow to cover interest payments on the car and then borrow to purchase the car.
What about purchasing in a company?
Ideas?
quoll
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