Central Equity Apartments
- Thread starter jcwc888
- Start date
Rubbish. Have lived (rented) in them before, would never buy one in a million years.
Poor quality, very often any views they have are built out by the next building, and watch how long they are and stay on sale for.
A lot of the buildings are mixed residential and short stay apartments. Its near on impossible to sleep when events like the races are on, or grand prix, etc.. when you have an appt full of bogans screamining of their 20th floor balcony at 2am.
Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think
I've heard comments similar to yours from other people, but your first hand experience is far more valuable than second hand feedback. Thanks for sharing.
Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think
I've heard comments similar to yours from other people, but your first hand experience is far more valuable than second hand feedback. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Rob
Actaually have lived in 2 different central equity apartments!
Other issues are:
- moving in and out, or acquiring new furniture, is a massive pain. You need to 'book' a goods lift, which are only available at certain times
- there is no visitor parking, and you cant do as you please with your car spot. If you dont have your allocated sticker on your windshield when in your own carspot you get fined.
- very windy now (many closely spaced, badly designed high rises) causes a wind tunnel effect
- gym in both buildings was terrible.
Good things:
- The tennis courts are pretty cool
- The conceirge service is handy.
The mix of serviced apartments and high rise resi is very "interesting". On more that one occasion I've seen (and had to calm down) drunk short stay bogans from harrasing international students in the lifts with pretty nasty "racist type" taunts.
In short, if you need somewhere to rent for a year or two near the city for a reasonable price, they're ok, but to buy, i wouldnt!
Contrary view......
I have like Trogdor, have rented and yes, owned (and still do own) an apartment built by CE (well, their building contractors) in South Melbourne/Southbank area.
I have lived up until last year for the previous 7 years in the area and have the following experiences;
* CE built buildings in the early 90's were of poorer quality, particularly with sound proofing issues, but this is no longer the case. Have visited friends who were living in converted buildings or newly constructed apartments of the same vintage which had similar issues
* Buildings at least for the past ten years have been fine. (5 different complexes I have first hand experience of). I guess it is difficult to shake perceptions.
* Have had one experience of partying for NYE (although they wasn't in a CE building mind you) from a neighbouring apartment. It was addressed. Welcome to inner city high density living
* Most people interacted well and respected body corporate rules
As for the comments about the social issues and experiences. Not sure how responsible CE are for that. If its a commentary on high density inner city living, then that is different. Of course, anti-social behaviour is not restricted to these areas
From an investing perspective, my experience has been as follows;
* I actually didn't purchase with a view to renting it. It was my first PPOR. I wanted to live in Sth Melbourne and couldn't afford to purchase a house at the time and I also wanted to live in an apartment.
* After about 2 years, i decided to rent it out and for a long time rents didn't move. I recall when I purchased it, I had to say that I was going to rent it out to make I sure I qualified for finance. The projected rent at the time when I purchased it was $350pw. When I did actually rent it out and for the following 18 months, the rent was still $350pw. The rent now is $480 and fair value for the apartments is around $480-$500pw.
As for its capital growth, it was great initially, and then was hit by the glut of apartments in 2002-2004 time frame. It has since come back. Purchased it for high 2's, now would be worth approximately mid 400-500k.
Could I have done better investing elsewhere up until now? Yes. A standard block/house in middle to outer suburbs probably would have done better and have even considered selling it recently, as it would attract no CGT and I am looking to purchase PPOR in Sth M/Albert Park/Port Melbourne area.
On balance, I don't think I will sell it, because even despite the GFC/recession, rents are still being pushed higher, which when the economy starts to turn for the better, prices will again catch
Would I buy an apartment today as an IP? No. Why?
* want to ensure I have a balanced portfolio of property types and another apartment/flat would not suit my situation.
* Want to be able to add value and generally, unless you are buying an older style flat/apt to renovate, there is not much value-adding ability left usually
* You generally pay for OTP purchases, a price, that is reflective of what the property is worth when its complete. Unless the market is very buoyant you aren't going to get the benefit of increasing prices.
* Body corporate fees are a bugger. You pay for tennis courts/gyms, but thay aren't that good - not that they are really designed for a replacement to your gym membership though. I had a lap pool in mine also. Got good value out of that I must admit. Just remember, the BC fees go up and now for any complex with over 100 lots, the owners corporation requires a sinking fund to be established and funded, so you will also find yourself paying for that too from the start.
Would I rent one, if I wanted to be in the area? Absolutely, yes.
I have like Trogdor, have rented and yes, owned (and still do own) an apartment built by CE (well, their building contractors) in South Melbourne/Southbank area.
I have lived up until last year for the previous 7 years in the area and have the following experiences;
* CE built buildings in the early 90's were of poorer quality, particularly with sound proofing issues, but this is no longer the case. Have visited friends who were living in converted buildings or newly constructed apartments of the same vintage which had similar issues
* Buildings at least for the past ten years have been fine. (5 different complexes I have first hand experience of). I guess it is difficult to shake perceptions.
* Have had one experience of partying for NYE (although they wasn't in a CE building mind you) from a neighbouring apartment. It was addressed. Welcome to inner city high density living
* Most people interacted well and respected body corporate rules
As for the comments about the social issues and experiences. Not sure how responsible CE are for that. If its a commentary on high density inner city living, then that is different. Of course, anti-social behaviour is not restricted to these areas
From an investing perspective, my experience has been as follows;
* I actually didn't purchase with a view to renting it. It was my first PPOR. I wanted to live in Sth Melbourne and couldn't afford to purchase a house at the time and I also wanted to live in an apartment.
* After about 2 years, i decided to rent it out and for a long time rents didn't move. I recall when I purchased it, I had to say that I was going to rent it out to make I sure I qualified for finance. The projected rent at the time when I purchased it was $350pw. When I did actually rent it out and for the following 18 months, the rent was still $350pw. The rent now is $480 and fair value for the apartments is around $480-$500pw.
As for its capital growth, it was great initially, and then was hit by the glut of apartments in 2002-2004 time frame. It has since come back. Purchased it for high 2's, now would be worth approximately mid 400-500k.
Could I have done better investing elsewhere up until now? Yes. A standard block/house in middle to outer suburbs probably would have done better and have even considered selling it recently, as it would attract no CGT and I am looking to purchase PPOR in Sth M/Albert Park/Port Melbourne area.
On balance, I don't think I will sell it, because even despite the GFC/recession, rents are still being pushed higher, which when the economy starts to turn for the better, prices will again catch
Would I buy an apartment today as an IP? No. Why?
* want to ensure I have a balanced portfolio of property types and another apartment/flat would not suit my situation.
* Want to be able to add value and generally, unless you are buying an older style flat/apt to renovate, there is not much value-adding ability left usually
* You generally pay for OTP purchases, a price, that is reflective of what the property is worth when its complete. Unless the market is very buoyant you aren't going to get the benefit of increasing prices.
* Body corporate fees are a bugger. You pay for tennis courts/gyms, but thay aren't that good - not that they are really designed for a replacement to your gym membership though. I had a lap pool in mine also. Got good value out of that I must admit. Just remember, the BC fees go up and now for any complex with over 100 lots, the owners corporation requires a sinking fund to be established and funded, so you will also find yourself paying for that too from the start.
Would I rent one, if I wanted to be in the area? Absolutely, yes.
I noticed they moved onto bigger and better builders for their later projects (Multiplex and the like) which I am sure improved the build quality substiantially.
Oh, and to answer JWC888 - Southbank Towers I believe falls into one of their EARLIER attempts - i.e. before the good builders.
Cheers,
The Y-man
my two cents worth:
*internal finishings are crap
*but the building structure of the 'newer' CE properties (ie those built post the late 1990's) are good. This is very important because as the building dates, things need to be repaired and replaced, the CE building model allows this to take place efficiently.
*CE is a 'brand name' it controls the body corporate of all of the buildings it develops. This is good as they have an incentive to keep things 'honest' to maintain the CE brand. This is an important differentiator to most inner city high rises, where developers come and go, and have no incentive to maintain a brand. Body corporate fees are very reasonable compared to other high rise city apartments.
*Capital growth is mainly a function of three factors:
1) rental growth
2) supply
3) location.
Given that 70% of high rise property is investor rather than owner occupied, prices fluctuate much more than for units with a high % of owner occupiers (low rise suburban units). Hence market timing is very important.
Personally i would never invest in any high rise southbank property around the arts centre. Southbank around Dodds street, wells street is good, St Kilda rd is good, and their bourke st city high rise has performed well.
Personally i dont think now is the time to be buying any high rise inner city melbourne apartments, prices have already shown very nice appreciation compared to the period 2004-2006 when there was a huge over supply of inner city units (try selling a high rise apartment in a downturn, its murder). This is the area of residential property that i specialise in. Very nice returns if you time your entry points well
*internal finishings are crap
*but the building structure of the 'newer' CE properties (ie those built post the late 1990's) are good. This is very important because as the building dates, things need to be repaired and replaced, the CE building model allows this to take place efficiently.
*CE is a 'brand name' it controls the body corporate of all of the buildings it develops. This is good as they have an incentive to keep things 'honest' to maintain the CE brand. This is an important differentiator to most inner city high rises, where developers come and go, and have no incentive to maintain a brand. Body corporate fees are very reasonable compared to other high rise city apartments.
*Capital growth is mainly a function of three factors:
1) rental growth
2) supply
3) location.
Given that 70% of high rise property is investor rather than owner occupied, prices fluctuate much more than for units with a high % of owner occupiers (low rise suburban units). Hence market timing is very important.
Personally i would never invest in any high rise southbank property around the arts centre. Southbank around Dodds street, wells street is good, St Kilda rd is good, and their bourke st city high rise has performed well.
Personally i dont think now is the time to be buying any high rise inner city melbourne apartments, prices have already shown very nice appreciation compared to the period 2004-2006 when there was a huge over supply of inner city units (try selling a high rise apartment in a downturn, its murder). This is the area of residential property that i specialise in. Very nice returns if you time your entry points well
Its exactly the same at River City Apartments in Brisbane, never again. Mixing long term/ short stay is a disaster, one of the short stay tenants even wanted a punchup in the lift!Thanks Rob
Actaually have lived in 2 different central equity apartments!
Other issues are:
- moving in and out, or acquiring new furniture, is a massive pain. You need to 'book' a goods lift, which are only available at certain times
- there is no visitor parking, and you cant do as you please with your car spot. If you dont have your allocated sticker on your windshield when in your own carspot you get fined.
- very windy now (many closely spaced, badly designed high rises) causes a wind tunnel effect
- gym in both buildings was terrible.
interestings comments.
i have bought and sold 5 of CE apartments and currently hold two. i just think that they are getting smaller and smaller like 109 Clarendon st and the older ones hold more value for a renovator. As in adding a new bathroom and another bedroom always seems to reap benefits for me.
Still, their location is very good. I admit the finishing and quality and pretty much below the standards but i suppose that is what i am looking for.
i have bought and sold 5 of CE apartments and currently hold two. i just think that they are getting smaller and smaller like 109 Clarendon st and the older ones hold more value for a renovator. As in adding a new bathroom and another bedroom always seems to reap benefits for me.
Still, their location is very good. I admit the finishing and quality and pretty much below the standards but i suppose that is what i am looking for.
Interested to hear how you do this jcwc888?
I would have thought it would be a nightmare to get BC consent to this, even assuming there was sufficient space to divide bedrooms (they are quite small to begin with!!)
there are L shaped dining rooms on city road
If you go to Southbank Towers, Wells St - lot ofs of those apartments have the option of a 2nd ensuite bathroom when they were built, but some owners who boughti it did not want to pay more? and it is a store room with essentially all the piping and sewage just behind if need be.
There were very big in the 90s and got smaller in the 90s, you find a 95-100sqm apartment for a 2 bedroom if you search and wait and a lower level.
i run everything through council, building surveyor, and signed off. It's not that expensive either.
i'll PM some pics if you want
oh yeah BC has nothing to do with it. If you have a building surveyor they' can't say anything. Besides what you do in your premises is your issue. The only problem i had was that i painted by balcony white and one part was able to be seen from the outside which required me to repaint it one strip.
And the floorboards, the only issue would be having acoustic underlay of 6mm to reduce noise.
So you have bought their apartments before and currently hold two, yet you are after our comments/thoughts
I suspect you would have a pretty good handle on their respective strengths and weaknesses after your experience.very very interested in having a look
can you put them up somehow, might be easier for you!
So you have bought their apartments before and currently hold two, yet you are after our comments/thoughts
no harm to get an overall opinion being i just joined this forum. And maybe can shoot off ideas of ppl doing similar stuff or show ppl what i've done.
end of the day, it is impossible to finance all purchases.
I brought a 1BR CE apartment in South Melbourne (Parkside 28 Bank St) about 6 yrs ago as a "bachelor pad" PPOR. Stayed about 3 yrs before selling it off to help pay for our family home now.
My experience is that they aren't good for investing but OK for lifestyle. Most of my neighbours were overseas students who disappeared when uni finished. I didn't find noise a problem at all despite what has been written by others except Grand Prix time. There always seemed to be a high vacancy of available rentals in the time I was there. Also, moving in and out is a real PITA with booking lifts and truck access. Parking was also very limited for guests.
Finally, security is downright disgraceful. Had a car stereo stolen in the carpark and it wasn't even noticed for 2 days. The window was smashed and when I enquired about video surveillance they told me that the cameras didn't catch anything??? Another time, there was a small brawl outside the building and when I called security got to message bank. Security didn't return my call until the next day! Makes you wonder why we need to pay for security if your going to be killed anyway.
My experience is that they aren't good for investing but OK for lifestyle. Most of my neighbours were overseas students who disappeared when uni finished. I didn't find noise a problem at all despite what has been written by others except Grand Prix time. There always seemed to be a high vacancy of available rentals in the time I was there. Also, moving in and out is a real PITA with booking lifts and truck access. Parking was also very limited for guests.
Finally, security is downright disgraceful. Had a car stereo stolen in the carpark and it wasn't even noticed for 2 days. The window was smashed and when I enquired about video surveillance they told me that the cameras didn't catch anything??? Another time, there was a small brawl outside the building and when I called security got to message bank. Security didn't return my call until the next day! Makes you wonder why we need to pay for security if your going to be killed anyway.
thanks for the input. Although i have owned a few CE apartments, i have never lived in them and i will be doing it for the 1st time this Sep. mine is at 148 wells st. i know vacancy rates were really high back in 2003 but nowadays it is pretty tight. Seems like MICM does have a pretty bad rep.
Out of curiousity - what is the size (in sq/m) for the apartments in these developments and what are the average prices? Some people in this thread are saying that some of the newer ones are getting small, but what do you mean as small?
As a comparison, I've been looking at various 2 bedroom apartments in Canberra and i think they are getting too small and too expensive. As an example, some new 2 bedroom apartments off the plan* are around 75sq/m (priced between 370-390k). These are located in Bruce which is relatively close to major facilities but a long way from supermarkets and shops if you don't have a car.
So how do these prices compare to the ones in Melbourne that are being spoken about here.
* Note - i don't plan to buy anyoff these off the plan but i am just looking for curiousity sake and and also to gain an understanding of the developments.
Thanks
g
As a comparison, I've been looking at various 2 bedroom apartments in Canberra and i think they are getting too small and too expensive. As an example, some new 2 bedroom apartments off the plan* are around 75sq/m (priced between 370-390k). These are located in Bruce which is relatively close to major facilities but a long way from supermarkets and shops if you don't have a car.
So how do these prices compare to the ones in Melbourne that are being spoken about here.
* Note - i don't plan to buy anyoff these off the plan but i am just looking for curiousity sake and and also to gain an understanding of the developments.
Thanks
g
MICM have a bad rep as you mention for very good reason. Don't expect much co-operation or help when it comes to organising lifts,etc when you move in.
I hope I haven't put you off too much from the lifestyle experience and all the best. I must mention that South Melbourne is excellent in that you often get personal car parking on most apartments and it is just so damn close to everything. Groceries are a bit expensive so go to the South Melbourne Market on Sunday just before closing time when they try to get rid of all the fruit and vegies. The produce is still excellent and they just try to dump it for ridiculous prices so they don't have to throw it away. I also would recommend all the butchers at the South Melbourne Market too- so much tastier and better quality than elsewhere it's not funny.
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