Granny flat = Dual occupancy?

Hi All,

I guess this question is more aimed at those in Canberra - and who are familiar with the bureaucratic maze called ACTPLA.

Anyway, what is the "borderline" in having a granny flat in your backyard (with 2 bedrooms), compared to having a dual occupancy place? That is, at what point (as determined by ACTPLA) should a residence with a separate granny flat become a block with dual occupancy?

The reason i ask, is that i am just about to settle on an IP in the Inner north and i am contemplating putting an approved 2 bedroom granny flat in the separate space where the old garage exists now. Can i do this without going through the dual occupancy process?

Thanks


g

gg1965 said:

Hi All,

I guess this question is more aimed at those in Canberra - and who are familiar with the bureaucratic maze called ACTPLA.

Anyway, what is the "borderline" in having a granny flat in your backyard (with 2 bedrooms), compared to having a dual occupancy place? That is, at what point (as determined by ACTPLA) should a residence with a separate granny flat become a block with dual occupancy?

The reason i ask, is that i am just about to settle on an IP in the Inner north and i am contemplating putting an approved 2 bedroom granny flat in the separate space where the old garage exists now. Can i do this without going through the dual occupancy process?

Thanks


g

Click to expand...

I would strongly urge you to get advice. There used to be the ability to have a short term granny flat (transportable) in your backyard which, in no way, equates to a dual ocupancy as you had to remove it when the user was not longer needing it. Dual occupancy in Canberra is only permitted in "core areas" mostly withn 200m of shopping areas and recently, the ability to unit title has been under review, making some of these core area sites no longer "strata-able" (called unit titling in the ACT).

So, find out what is actually currently approved or approvable on your proposed purchase site, find out if the consent is still current (they only last two years here) and fins out if anything can built AND unit titled so that you are not stuck with something that cant later be sold off separately.

If you want to be put in touch with someone who specialises in the ins and outs of ACT planning, (not me, I'm a NSW planner with only some ACT experience) PM me and I'll give you a name or two, both ex ACTPLA and very knowledgable.

Hello gg1965 and Savannah100,

This reply is probably a little late to be of any use (sorry but I just saw it). I recently finished a reno on my PPOR converting an ex veterinary surgery (previous owner is a Vet) to an income producing granny flat.

Link is here: http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58799

I also had issues with ACTPLA. There were many planning requirements which frankly I didn't understand. I vaguely remember something about "As soon as you put in a functional kitchen into another area of the house, it becomes a separate dwelling", and "If the external appearance of the facades change you need full development approval" There were also similar things that initially scared me off. After some discussions with ACTPLA, I was convinced that the project was not going ahead.

By sheer luck, one of the many builders that I had looking at it for quoting purposes told ne of a draftsman he knows well who deals with ACTPLA all the time and can sell them icecream in the middle of winter. Sure enough for a paltry $1400 he not only got the project approved by ACTPLA, but drew the plans (which ACTPLA signed off on) and did all the wheeling and dealing for me.

I think he might have thrown in a few "porky pies" for good measure, and I also think that it might not be 100% legal (e.g. If we ever sell there might be some issues about what is on the title etc) but do I care? I now have an income producing asset in my own backyard. And to be honest, if I was selling this property now I think the buyer would be more than convinced about the positives of the extra income vs the perceived need to comply.

I can put you in touch with him if you like, he's in the north (Mackellar).

PS This is not Criminal behaviour in case you're wondering, Its merely exploiting the loopholes. The builder told me that this type of process happens all over Canberra and the majority of Granny Flats could have some planning deficiencies if they (ACTPLA) had the time to investigate them.

Cheers

Pedro

Dual Occupancy in Canberra

Hi, My name is Julian. I'm new on this forum. For informational purposes, I posted this same comment on somersoft forum.

What I have to say might come too late for you. What I'm about to do is 2 dual occupancy developments in Canberra on blocks right next to each other in a core zone.

I have looked into the new laws governing unit titling and subdivision. It appears that subdivision is a prohibitively expensive way to go. Not to mention the actpla experience. The betterment tax payable is currently 50% of the increased UCV from what I understand, and this is due to increase to 75% in June this year. This is crazy. So on each block if I subdivide I could pay at least $80k or more for each. There would also be ongoing fees payable. E.g: CGT, increased rates, land tax, etc.. Why subdivide? The only benefit I could see is if you wanted to sell one or both to take the added value. But true investors buy and hold. Think of the Monopoly game. You don't make money by buying & selling but buying and holding. I looked at all the possible negatives of subdivision/unit titling and they were heavy. It just makes no sense to subdivide, especially if you intend to sell. In my case I will cop 150k+ in taxes and fees/ CGT on EACH block. So much for "affordable" housing the governments bragging about.

If I plonk a house in the backyard of each of these blocks which complies with subdivision requirements but I keep them on single titles and rent them both out, that is the best way. I'm saving a bucket load of costs and I'm still collecting full rental on the houses without additional ongoing costs like increased rates, land taxes, cgt and so on. And in 10 years time I will be getting 1k a week on each of the 4 houses instead of 500 bucks with excellent capital growth.

That is just my feeling anyway.

JRR, I completely agree with you, The only way this could become unstuck is if you have to bail out for fianical reasons at some point and cant find a buyer willing to take the both houses off your hands.

I am surprised that no one has identified company title as a way of getting around the ridiculous rules about where you can build and unit title the Canberra "core and suburban" issue I have whinged about in this forum before)

It would be worth investigating here in Canberra as it would rely on federal corporations law rather than local planning controls.

There was a case in NSW, which knocked on the head the use of company title to build multi units in places you normally couldnt...worth a read for the keen amongst us

CITATION: 1643 Pittwater Road Pty Ltd v Pittwater Council 11 Elvina Avenue Pty Ltd v Pittwater Council Doering v Pittwater Council 1643 Pittwater Road Pty Ltd v Pittwater Council [2004] NSWLEC 685

found here...


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/NSWLEC/2004/685.html

I went to a few open homes in Canberra on the weekend. One of them was being sold under company title in a non-core area.

Developer had built 2 * 4 bed ensuites on an empty block in an established suburb. Had sold one and the other is still on the market.

First time I've ever seen 'Company Title' in Canberra. Seems it has been used to get around all the problems and costs associated with core area and subdivision.

Keentobuy said:

I went to a few open homes in Canberra on the weekend. One of them was being sold under company title in a non-core area.

Developer had built 2 * 4 bed ensuites on an empty block in an established suburb. Had sold one and the other is still on the market.

First time I've ever seen 'Company Title' in Canberra. Seems it has been used to get around all the problems and costs associated with core area and subdivision.

Click to expand...

Can you provide me a link to that property? I am keen to do further research on Company Title thing. Thanks.

Thanks for alerting me to this one KTB, the ad does not seem to give an indication that the development is company title so I'd be happy to know more. It's definitely not an RZ2 zone (core area) so cant be unit titled.

Lending on company title is apparently a stretch for banks so the full story on this one would be great to know.

Keentobuy said:

http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/sale-residential/7a-nyah-place-duffy-canberra/1316750986011

Click to expand...

Hi! The above property is still available. Does anyone ever know why it take such long time to sell? It was first displayed on the website on 26/3/10.

Contact details

Pedro61 said:

Hello gg1965 and Savannah100,

This reply is probably a little late to be of any use (sorry but I just saw it). I recently finished a reno on my PPOR converting an ex veterinary surgery (previous owner is a Vet) to an income producing granny flat.

Link is here: http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58799

I also had issues with ACTPLA. There were many planning requirements which frankly I didn't understand. I vaguely remember something about "As soon as you put in a functional kitchen into another area of the house, it becomes a separate dwelling", and "If the external appearance of the facades change you need full development approval" There were also similar things that initially scared me off. After some discussions with ACTPLA, I was convinced that the project was not going ahead.

By sheer luck, one of the many builders that I had looking at it for quoting purposes told ne of a draftsman he knows well who deals with ACTPLA all the time and can sell them icecream in the middle of winter. Sure enough for a paltry $1400 he not only got the project approved by ACTPLA, but drew the plans (which ACTPLA signed off on) and did all the wheeling and dealing for me.

I think he might have thrown in a few "porky pies" for good measure, and I also think that it might not be 100% legal (e.g. If we ever sell there might be some issues about what is on the title etc) but do I care? I now have an income producing asset in my own backyard. And to be honest, if I was selling this property now I think the buyer would be more than convinced about the positives of the extra income vs the perceived need to comply.

I can put you in touch with him if you like, he's in the north (Mackellar).

PS This is not Criminal behaviour in case you're wondering, Its merely exploiting the loopholes. The builder told me that this type of process happens all over Canberra and the majority of Granny Flats could have some planning deficiencies if they (ACTPLA) had the time to investigate them.

Cheers

Pedro

Click to expand...

Hi there,

If I could get a contact for this person that would be great.. we have just bought a property and are planning to do a dual occ.

[email protected]
0419610802
Thanks
DaveA

hi all

I've been trawling about looking for ACT granny flat info and found this. As a result I contacted ACTPLA and they informed me I could not build a GF as my block is too small (570sm) but I could build on a separate studio or somesuch if it is for providing care for a family member (it is, my father is alone and getting on, so I am hoping to put something up for him). assisted living or something.

Does anyone have experience with this? I've looked on the internet but I can't find anything. I'd like to know what exactly I could build, maybe a studio with a bathroom, but not a full kitchen (I'm guessing). Would it be easier to just stick a cabin or studio without a kitchen and not worry about the whole GF element? I would like to rent it out, but it would also be handy to have more space for dad and other family members/moochers

I have a small duplex on a corner block - the house entrance is to one street, the garage/granny flat area to the other street. There is lots of room. I can't extend the house as there are easements surrounding it - unless I built another floor which I don't really want to. I bought the house as a ppor, but its been rented since I bought it, as I am currently living away from Canberra so it is IP for a few years first.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!