Subdivide part of house into granny flat?

spludgey

spludgey

I just bought a pretty big five bedroom house that has two bathrooms and a study.
I was thinking, would it be possible to take two of the bedrooms and a bathroom make it into a one bedroom granny flat?
That would leave me with a three bedroom house as well.

Can this be done with council approval? If so, do I have to make the dividing wall a fire proof wall?
And would I have to pay a section 94(not exempt in the area)?
 
If you want it to be "approved" then, yes, you'll need a firewall.
Yes, you can have a granny flat under the same roof.
In that part of Wyong Shire - Blue Haven, you will have to pay Section 94 contributions, yes.
And finally, no, you won't get it approved in 10 days as a complying development, I believe, because of your proximity to the river there, you will in a potentially flood affected area. You will need to go through a DA process.
 
How much did you pay for the house.

I haven't been researching the area but I should start with those kinds of returns (if you bought it for 210 of course!)

What's that shedlike structure out the back? Maybe you can convert that into a granny flat and also rent out the two rooms as planned (I'm not sure if you are allowed to set it up as a triplex but you can probably just rent the two rooms in your house on the down low.)
 
If I didn't get it approved by the council, what would be the worst case scenario? Would I merely have to convert it back into one property or would there be some sort of legal ramifications?
I know plenty of people do it up on the coast, but I'd like to know what I'm in for before considering it.

I paid $237000 for the house, but I will get the vendor to reimburse me $2000 of the costs going towards renovations.
Wiseberry is really annoying like that, they always do their range thing, but expect the top value of the bracket.

Last November the house was listed by another agent for $339950! :eek:

The shed is a double carport plus garage, both in quite a bad state. According to the building report they should be torn down, but I think I can salvage them. Definitely not granny flat potential though.
 
It seems as if you have picked the property up for a good price, especially considering the prior asking price. What i would do is contact the council and have a general chat with them about their planning requirements for this kind of project.

If successful it looks as if you will end up with a nice yield on this one!

Nathan
 
nat_melb said:
It seems as if you have picked the property up for a good price, especially considering the prior asking price. What i would do is contact the council and have a general chat with them about their planning requirements for this kind of project.

If successful it looks as if you will end up with a nice yield on this one!

Nathan
Click to expand...

Thanks mate.

The reason the house didn't sell earlier is that it does require a bit of work. I'm expecting to spend around $5000 (more if I go the granny flat route) on it to spruce it up a bit.

Not sure about talking to the council though, wouldn't that make it more likely that they check my property for an unapproved granny flat?
 
spludgey said:
If I didn't get it approved by the council, what would be the worst case scenario?
Click to expand...
As always the answer is 'it depends'. If you don't make any structural changes, then there is nothing to be approved anyway. If it is just a matter of closing off a doorway or locking a door - really no issues. Council's main issue seems to be having 2 x kitchens in a property.....but a sink and bench can be a wet-bar for example, and appliances do not have to be 'installed' into cabinetry. There are portable twin hotplates, small benchtop ovens etc that can plug into a 240V power point and be unplugged and put away after use.

As you say, the Central Coast being a holiday place historically, has many of these kinds of set-ups. Sometimes owners would rent the house out to a tenant on a permanent basis and just come up to use the granny flat on week-ends or school holidays.

spludgey said:
Would I merely have to convert it back into one property
Click to expand...
Worst case scenario I'd reckon.

spludgey said:
....or would there be some sort of legal ramifications?
Click to expand...
Check with your insurer - some won't like it, others are happy as long as you make a full disclosure to them.
 
spludgey said:
Wiseberry is really annoying like that, they always do their range thing, but expect the top value of the bracket.
Click to expand...

Not entirely correct. ;) Like any agent, they are duty-bound to try to get the highest price for their vendor - you'd expect that. For agents that use the 'price range' method, the OFT has advised that if say the range is $250K-300K, the agent must also say "value at $300K" on the advertisement.
 
Propertunity said:
Not entirely correct. ;) Like any agent, they are duty-bound to try to get the highest price for their vendor - you'd expect that. For agents that use the 'price range' method, the OFT has advised that if say the range is $250K-300K, the agent must also say "value at $300K" on the advertisement.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I don't see how that contradicts anything I said.
The bottom of the bracket with Wiseberry is far below anything that the vendor would accept. It's basically just a bait and switch. They might as well put "$0!!!" as the bottom range of it.
 
Propertunity said:
If you want it to be "approved" then, yes, you'll need a firewall.
Yes, you can have a granny flat under the same roof.
In that part of Wyong Shire - Blue Haven, you will have to pay Section 94 contributions, yes.
And finally, no, you won't get it approved in 10 days as a complying development, I believe, because of your proximity to the river there, you will in a potentially flood affected area. You will need to go through a DA process.
Click to expand...

Excellent post Propertunity!

spludgey - i done a loan a few years back for a client who bought pretty much on the same street- and that street "was" classified as 1:100 flood prone- which is high, so as Propertunity mentioned full DA + it's harder to get the approval unless certain "flood" prevention are in place ( diff material, size, measurement etc...)

This was a good 2 years ago- may have changed, but i doubt it...

Regards
Michael
 
spludgey said:
Exactly, I don't see how that contradicts anything I said.
Click to expand...

I should have been clearer, sorry. When you said : "Wiseberry is really annoying like that, they always do their range thing, but expect the top value of the bracket", I was really only disagreeing with the word "expect". :eek:

I don't seriously think they expect you to pay at the top of the range. That isn't what they receive in practice anyway.......at least not from me ;)
 
I think we're basically in agreeance about the price range, we just look at it a little differently. :)

On flooding though, I found this in the s149:

7A FLOOD RELATED DEVELOPMENTCONTROLS
Development on this land for the purposes of dwelling houses, dual occupancies, multi dwelling housing or residential flat buildings (not including development for the purposes of group homes or senior housing) and for other purposes are not Subject to flood related development controls.

Does that mean it would qualify for the expedited granny flat approval?
 
spludgey said:
On flooding though, I found this in the s149:

7A FLOOD RELATED DEVELOPMENTCONTROLS
Development on this land for the purposes of dwelling houses, dual occupancies, multi dwelling housing or residential flat buildings (not including development for the purposes of group homes or senior housing) and for other purposes are not Subject to flood related development controls.
Click to expand...

I need you to post the bit of the 149 that is just before or just after that portion that you've quoted, please. It relates to whether the land is subject to any flooding or tidal inundation.

On the face of it - it looks OK. What you DO want to see is words in the 149 that look like those in the attachment.
 

Attachments

  • flood.jpg
    flood.jpg
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As I have said elsewhere, you can do a granny flat as complying development under the Affordable Rental Housing SEPP even on flood prone land, provided it is low risk flood prone land. It is def. something worth checking.

This means CDC rather than DA, a much easier process.

The Department of Planning (state, not local government) actually has a pretty good information line for complying development stuff.

Give them a call, and you will probably learn an easier way around it.
 
spludgey said:
I just bought a pretty big five bedroom house that has two bathrooms and a study.
I was thinking, would it be possible to take two of the bedrooms and a bathroom make it into a one bedroom granny flat?
That would leave me with a three bedroom house as well.

Can this be done with council approval? If so, do I have to make the dividing wall a fire proof wall?
And would I have to pay a section 94(not exempt in the area)?
Click to expand...

I am finishing a similar project in Blue Haven, splitting a 5br house into a house and GF. Had to pay S94. Had to install firewall. There is one more (significant) expense for you to take into account - council will require you to be compliant with BASIX, meaning you will probably have to install water tank, heat pump (or solar), insulation.
 
sahi said:
I am finishing a similar project in Blue Haven, splitting a 5br house into a house and GF. Had to pay S94. Had to install firewall. There is one more (significant) expense for you to take into account - council will require you to be compliant with BASIX, meaning you will probably have to install water tank, heat pump (or solar), insulation.
Click to expand...

Would you mind telling us what sort of money the firewall etc cost? We are thinking of doing the same on a 5 bedroomy.
 
Propertunity said:
As always the answer is 'it depends'. If you don't make any structural changes, then there is nothing to be approved anyway. If it is just a matter of closing off a doorway or locking a door - really no issues. .
Click to expand...

No.
Worst case scenario is tenant in Unit 1 has a fire which spreads to Unit 2, kills occupants and the Owner goes to gaol for a VERY long time.

Any dual occupancy where the 2 occupancies share a 'party' wall (or ceiling/floor) must be fully sealed (fire-rated) from the floor (or subfloor if it's on piers) to the ridge of the roof- for this very reason^^.
 
FLOODING

For granny flats, the property can be flood-affected and still qualify under the 'Affordable Rental Housing SEPP' as long as some conditions are met. The S149 Certificate can say it is flood affected and yet it may still say it qualifies for Complying Develoment.

Basically as long as the site is not in a 'high risk' or 'flow path' flooding area and the floor level is above the level set by Council, you can do it.

The road to approval is certainly more expensive because you have to hire a hydraulic/structural engineer to certify the structure + design/certify the stormwater drainage system and have a Registered AHD Survey done, but it can be done. In my experiience the develpment costs increase by about $5,000- $7,000

The following is quoted from the (related) Exempt and Complying Development SEPP:

(2) The development must not be on any part of a flood control lot unless that part of the lot has been certified, for the purposes of the issue of the relevant complying development certificate, by the council or a professional engineer who specialises in hydraulic engineering as not being any of the following:
(a) a flood storage area,

(b) a floodway area,

(c) a flow path,

(d) a high hazard area,

(e) a high risk area.

(3) The development must, to the extent it is within a flood planning area:
(a) have all habitable rooms no lower than the floor levels set by the council for that lot, and

(b) have the part of the development at or below the flood planning level constructed of flood compatible material, and

(c) be able to withstand the forces of floodwater, debris and buoyancy up to the flood planning level (or if on-site refuge is proposed, the probable maximum flood level), and

(d) not increase flood affectation elsewhere in the floodplain, and

(e) have reliable access for pedestrians and vehicles from the development, at a minimum level equal to the lowest habitable floor level of the development, to a safe refuge, and

(f) have open car parking spaces or carports that are no lower than the 20-year flood level, and

(g) have driveways between car parking spaces and the connecting public roadway that will not be inundated by a depth of water greater than 0.3m during a 1:100 ARI (average recurrent interval) flood event.
 
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