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Mry, will the ruling cover the price to be used for redemption of the units? Alex

While that happens in other unlisted property trusts, my concern would still be the arms length issue because the entities are related. Alex

You’re the one who has his deductions on the line if the ATO doesn’t rule in your favour. I’m not doing this for you, since obviously I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me. I’m discussing this for the benefit of other forumites who are considering HDTs. I think they deserve an...

I understand your argument, as does Mry and Julia (much better than I do, I'm sure). I just don't like your chances in front of the ATO because I think the ATO will disagree with you. To say that the ATO will rule in your favour, in view of the current conflicting rulings and absence of actual...

I didn't understand what you meant, and I AM an accountant. The opinions of a firm of accountants is certainly NOT the same as the opinion of the whole association. Wouldn't you think the institutes, who represent all its members, would tell all its members to go sell HDTs if they were as...

None of whom are associations. They are all firms / practices who make money from selling HDTs. They would all be members of either CPA or Chartered Accountant associations, neither of which has come out supporting HDTs. Again, none of the above are ASSOCIATIONS. They are all members of the...

Shadow, can you give me some references? I'd be interested in reading them. Alex

Yes, but I'm not talking about selling the properties. I'm talking about the CGT aspects of the UNITS. And what about the ones that day it's not? (Such as the one Mry quoted?) And if you never redeem the units, all the tax gains (rent, etc) go to the unit holder (that would be you). So...

I can use a family trust and get all of the above EXCEPT negative gearing. What I'm questioning is why I would choose a HDT over a discretionary trust. Yes, I can negative gear using a HDT, but I also have CGT payable when I redeem the units, whereas I wouldn't have that if I used a...

My reading is that when the buying and selling entites are not related, the ATO assumes the sale to be at a 'fair' price. However, where the entities are related the ATO would scrutinise it for 'fairness'. I haven't researched this in detail, but for example, that ACR thing where the wife of...

They have their own terms, I'm sure, often at the detriment to the unit-holders. But in that case, the trust usually has a fixed life (or at least after a period requires agreement to renew) and my view is that because those are arms length transactions, the ATO is less likely to pursue them...

My opinion only: where the entities are arms-length, and/or the entity is listed and buyers and sellers are unrelated, there is a presumption that the price is 'fair' (since you wouldn't deliberately lose money to an unrelated party). However, where the entities are related and the sale is not...

That's because the units do not actually represent ownership of the asset. Listed property trusts don't always trade at their NTAs, either. It's the usual 'general' rule that the ATO uses to avoid people poking holes through it. Easy to run around a brick wall. Far harder to run around a net...

It's not a simple structure and there are very few precedents, Shuttergirl. As you can see even professionals and experts don't agree on it. James, my understanding is that redemption at cost would not be allowed by the ATO because transfer of assets has to be for market value. That is, that...

Having the DT own units in a UT is a totally different issue, and pretty irrelevant when you want the individual to get the interest deductions. If the DT had enough income to take the interest deductions from buying units, why bother with the UT at all? I would straight have the DT own the IPs...

Aren't you talking about a slightly different case, Gordon? You're actually talking about redeeming the units at MARKET, but in the limited situation where the market price is actually at or even below the cost price. I assume the redemption of units at cost will be an issue where the market...