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No worries, your brothers sound like good guys. They both sound like a prime example contradicting Fab's point, that the woman is the best one to raise the kids. (While married. If course this changes, according to Fab, as soon as the couple separates.) Each couple can work out what's best...

But that's not what you said. The woman is the carer, by genetic predisposition. Now, your muddying your own waters. Ash, the traditional response of an Internet poster, when he realises another has made him look like a goose. Go on the attack! Well played, sir.

I'd you can't conceive, that means you can't have kids. If you can't have kids, you don't have a traditional family. I'm sorry, I forgot I have to dumb everything down to a 5 year old level when talking to you. If you heart failed, would you get a transplant, or is that 'meant to be' as well?

IVF is a fix to a medical problem. You want the traditional family, yet don't want advances in medicine to help people conceive. Strange logic.

Brilliant post.

Not to get hung up on this, but it's not an erosion of the family at all. It has nothing to do with anyone's family or relationship but the couple involved. It's not free. A defacto relationshipo operates just like a marriage.

You said it was a great post, yet Mr Fab would have a fundamental disagreement with your brothers being the primary carer for his kids.