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I didn't want to take the debate into the area of the current government's performance. There's things they do well and things they don't. Regardless, that is incidental to the main topic of this thread. The name calling was directed at both sides of the fence. It goes beyond normal political...

I don't agree that they're necessarily doing a good job. I do agree that there's no place for the level of name calling of politicians (from both sides). But regardless of what BV and I think- that is an attitude which will do absolutely nothing to convince anybody of your viewpoint. On the...

My apologies. It would have taken a lot of rereading to find that. And your own statement indicates that I exaggerated only just slightly- it wasn't an outright lie. The overwhelming view you give is that it must have been Ukraine because they are bad and Russian speaking Ukrainians are...

I do take the point that western media is biased. Personally I believe that it is possible that Ukraine, pro Russian rebels, or possibly even the Russians could have shot down the plane. There is not just one side fighting. Nobody is blameless in the fighting. I do however find it ironic...

The simplest explanation is that the rebels shot it down, possibly in error.

What's happening now appears encouraging

That was quoted earlier in the thread. That's a third unnamed party. A member of the armed forces who obviously doesn't like Abbott, and who probably wants publicity to reinforce his position. The government has said directly that they are not sending on armed troops. The government has also...

There may have been talk, but that's not the official position, according to the Canberra Times

I'm puzzled why the comment about armed forces. We're sending AFP officers, not soldiers. It was the AFP who investigated the Bali bombing. They have investigative tools and experience.

1. The Dutch have control of the investigation. Australians are taking part. 2. The Australians have expertise. They did a damn good job investigating the Bali bombing. They have excellent tools in place for investigating that sort of incident. 3. It's ridiculous to suggest that the people who...

So Abbott risks inflaming the issue by sending investigators? But if it's true, as has been said by some in this thread, that it was the Ukraine which shot down the plane, the rebels would have nothing to fear from an investigation.

So Australians care more about Putin than about fellow Aussies? I don't think so. We heard about MH370 for many weeks afterward. Despite all the conspiracy theories, I don't remember Putin being implicated.

But then any story which involves Australians is going to be much more newsworthy. If it additionally involves being shot down, even more so.

MH17: Pro-Russian separatist commander acknowledges fighters had Buk missile launcher There's also reports Ukrainian fighter planes have been shot down. Presumably these were shot down by their own forces.

But flying is still safer than driving. In the US a fatality driving is 9 times more likely than a fatality flying- and in this case study driving to the airport to take a flight is actually five times more likely to result in a fatality than the flight itself...

Bad things done by one country do not excuse bad things by another country. What is being done in Israel is bad. But there both sides are just as bad- one is just much better equipped to cause damage on the other side. A plane flying over a war zone does not excuse it being shot down either...

How is it that somebody has the technology to shoot something down at that distance but not have the technology to do anything more than just look at with the naked eye? I don't think so.