11 Unit dev site - Armadale WA

[paulie]

Hi All,

Thought I would throw this up and see what, if any interest is out there, and before you all ask, yes I am a Real Estate Agent.

I am soon to be involved in selling a 2,896sqm development site, with R15/R40 zoning (max potential of 13 units - but given design constraints probably only get 11 units of of this site) in Armadale, WA for $795,000. The owner will consider an October 06 Settlement - ie 4 to 5 months away.

The property is 200metres as the crow flys from the railway line, but at least a kilometre from the main armadale station and Armadale shopping precinct. All services are available except the sewer, which is not connected to the property, according to the Water Authority it will cost $115,000 to bring the sewer line in to the property from the cross street.

IMHO the best use of the site will be to create 11 - 3 bed 2 bath villas with a 36sqm double garage and approx 104sqm of living space in each home. A Similar development of villas has just been sold off the plan in an adjoining street for $295,000 - $305,000 via another real estate office.

Other than the address, which I will release as soon as the owner signs the listing agreement, what else would you like to know?

Paulie

 

[grossreal]

hi paulie
for me it should have gone into caveat but anyway heres my rule of thumb and this doesn't meet it.295 - 21% (my min margin)=233 - 150 build ( min build) = 83 ( available cash per building) * 11 gives me 913-43 stampduty= 870 - 15 legals etc= 855 - 795 is 60k left in the cash tin and the interest on the lend is 220k so I would be putting in on top of my normal injection an extra 160k to do this project.
so for me no I wouldn't look at it.

 

[paulie]

hi paulie
for me it should have gone into caveat but anyway heres my rule of thumb and this doesn't meet it.295 - 21% (my min margin)=233 - 150 build ( min build) = 83 ( available cash per building) * 11 gives me 913-43 stampduty= 870 - 15 legals etc= 855 - 795 is 60k left in the cash tin and the interest on the lend is 220k so I would be putting in on top of my normal injection an extra 160k to do this project.
so for me no I wouldn't look at it.

Hi Grossreal, thanks for the quick response.

Just following through your numbers, you are suggesting that you would look at this property only at a purchase price of $635,000, ie 855K less the hold costs of 220K = $635K?

cheers

paulie

 

[grossreal]

hi paulie
no even at 485 it doesn't stack up on my calcs
can send you a lend on it at your values and I have doen it a 140 build and we build here at 170 to 180 but very low level of fittings you can get down to these levels.
heres one of my spread sheets it must get to builder profit margin of 21%
email me at [email protected] if you have problems with the excel sheet.
this sheet is not to be sold or plagerised and i wont come back and delete this thread ( oh well I might)

 

[muney]

Hi All,

Thought I would throw this up and see what, if any interest is out there, and before you all ask, yes I am a Real Estate Agent.

I am soon to be involved in selling a 2,896sqm development site, with R15/R40 zoning (max potential of 13 units - but given design constraints probably only get 11 units of of this site) in Armadale, WA for $795,000. The owner will consider an October 06 Settlement - ie 4 to 5 months away.

The property is 200metres as the crow flys from the railway line, but at least a kilometre from the main armadale station and Armadale shopping precinct. All services are available except the sewer, which is not connected to the property, according to the Water Authority it will cost $115,000 to bring the sewer line in to the property from the cross street.

IMHO the best use of the site will be to create 11 - 3 bed 2 bath villas with a 36sqm double garage and approx 104sqm of living space in each home. A Similar development of villas has just been sold off the plan in an adjoining street for $295,000 - $305,000 via another real estate office.

Other than the address, which I will release as soon as the owner signs the listing agreement, what else would you like to know?

Paulie

hey paulie..u dont work for ray white in armadale do you..youve got the 2 sites side by side ones a 18 site and ones a 13 site??..
i looked at this site and at 72k per site is expensive..BUT the main problem was the sewer AND the site is not an R40 but an R15/R40 which means that council will decide on the day weather to zone it anywhere between R15-R40..so it can be as low as R15 and then your cost per site would be way too high and you would become next to bankrupt..dont want that now do we??
whats your view on the new re-zoning happening down at brookdale??

 

[paulie]

hey paulie..u dont work for ray white in armadale do you..youve got the 2 sites side by side ones a 18 site and ones a 13 site??..
i looked at this site and at 72k per site is expensive..BUT the main problem was the sewer AND the site is not an R40 but an R15/R40 which means that council will decide on the day weather to zone it anywhere between R15-R40..so it can be as low as R15 and then your cost per site would be way too high and you would become next to bankrupt..dont want that now do we??
whats your view on the new re-zoning happening down at brookdale??

Hi Muney,

No I do not work for Ray White Armadale, I work for First National in Forrestfield. But I do know very well the two sites at 9 and 11 Gladstone you are talking about, which I believe are now sold. The property I was spruiking to somersoft readers was number 24 Gladstone, and it is now sold for full price - $795,000.

Yes there is and was an issue regarding sewer, in that it is not connected to the property and would have to be brought in from a cross street, hence my previous post re the initial estimated costs from the Water Corp.

Muney, I will be delicated here, you have been grossly misinformed if you think the Shire can arbitarily pick a zoning anywhere between R15 and R40 depending on the day. Please take the time and pick up the phone, or better yet drop in to the shire and have a chat to the planning officer, and I am sure you will very quickly understand the reasons for the dual zoning from the Shire's point of view and what you would need to do in any planning application - or sub division application to be guaranteed to receive the highest density.

Cheers


Paulie

 

[muney]

paulie,
you didnt answer my last question..what are your thoughts on the re-zoning of brookdale?? and how is the market going in and around armadale and seville grove? we have purchased a 11 acre block in brookdale hence me asking..waiting for the re-zoning to happen hopefully early next year by the ARA..have nothing to compare how much house and land packages would be worth in 2 years down the track..yes we are the developer and builder for these H&L packages

 

[paulie]

paulie,
you didnt answer my last question..what are your thoughts on the re-zoning of brookdale?? and how is the market going in and around armadale and seville grove? we have purchased a 11 acre block in brookdale hence me asking..waiting for the re-zoning to happen hopefully early next year by the ARA..have nothing to compare how much house and land packages would be worth in 2 years down the track..yes we are the developer and builder for these H&L packages

Rezoning in brookdale is still a little up in the air, Alana MacTiernan has set a date around Nov to formalise what the new zonings and estate developments requirements will be, then another date in Feb 07 for implementation of these changes, but it looks like it will be R20 zoning at this stage, hence 500sqm blocks. Assuming R20 came through you would lose about 25% of your site to roads and public open space, allowing for a maximum of 64 lots to be created (estimate) on an 11 acre site. The lots would be worth today in the $140K - $160K range, House and Land packages for typically standard 4x2's would be sold off the plan in the $350K range today.

The market in and around Seville Grove is great prices still moving up as their is a lack of stock for sale, Armadale whilst suffering the same problem is up in the air a little bit as the latest zoning changes filter through to the market, alot of properties in Armadale can benefit from the R15/R25 rezoning, and the land around the townsite and railway as you already know has the R15/R40.

Cheers


Paulie

 

[muney]

The lots would be worth today in the $140K - $160K range, House and Land packages for typically standard 4x2's would be sold off the plan in the $350K range today.

Cheers


Paulie

Paulie..i think your way off with your prices mate!..can you please show me any evidence of new house and land packages (4x2) going for $350k?? let me know as i will buy 10 straight away!!

here is some land which has sold:

http://www.reiwa.com.au/Lst/Lst-Res...817BC181C-01-Jun-2006-03:24:15:983&Id=2119559

some sold house and land packages..$397k & 415K

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...f=10&p=10&snf=rbs&cu=fn-rea&rs=0&fmt=&header=

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...&t=res&ty=&snf=rbs&ag=&cu=fn-rea&fmt=&header=

ok if your still not convinced..here are some second hand homes going around the $415k range!!

http://www.reiwa.com.au/Lst/Lst-Res...817BC181C-01-Jun-2006-03:25:35:139&Id=2073277

http://www.reiwa.com.au/Lst/Lst-Res...817BC181C-01-Jun-2006-03:25:35:139&Id=2107906

with the above just cut n paste..
so please paulie..show me the facts that they are worth what your saying they are worth..for christs sake you can get 3x2 villas in armadale which have just about all sold for $315k and your talking $350k for a 4x2 on its own green titled block????

 

[paulie]

Hi muney,

Chill out, cool down, have a coke and realise you are comparing your apples to my oranges.

I gave you my conservative guesstimate prices for Brookdale - being a completely un developed suburb with a majority of rural only properties which still has yet to have any zoning officially put in place to allow development.

I didn't quote values nor prices for Seville Grove & Armadale, I just gave you my opinion of the suburbs relative strength at the moment, you really gotta read a little better big guy before you shoot your mouth off.

Your little cut and paste excercise makes me laugh. I haven't the energy nor the patience to show you the errors of your comparisions, nor where your calculations are blatantly wrong.

Good luck with Brookdale, i hope you get the prices you are dreaming of.

Paulie

 

[BruceW]

Brookdale LWTF

Muney,

Keep in mind there is quite a stigma associated with the Brookdale name in WA revolving around the LWTF (Liquid waste treatment facility). I think it was around 2003 when it was all over the news. Residents complaining of headaches, schools closed, government studies etc. Reports of heavy metal spills etc.

Regardless of the actual location, and the outcomes (and subsequent closures) it was all over the media. My guess if you played word association with any WA resident and said 'Brookdale' they'd come back with something along the lines of 'Toxic Waste'.

http://portal.environment.wa.gov.au/portal/page?_pageid=157,1466944&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

Regards,

Bruce

 

[muney]

Hi muney,

Chill out, cool down, have a coke and realise you are comparing your apples to my oranges.

I gave you my conservative guesstimate prices for Brookdale - being a completely un developed suburb with a majority of rural only properties which still has yet to have any zoning officially put in place to allow development.

I didn't quote values nor prices for Seville Grove & Armadale, I just gave you my opinion of the suburbs relative strength at the moment, you really gotta read a little better big guy before you shoot your mouth off.

Your little cut and paste excercise makes me laugh. I haven't the energy nor the patience to show you the errors of your comparisions, nor where your calculations are blatantly wrong.

Good luck with Brookdale, i hope you get the prices you are dreaming of.

Paulie

well if it makes you laugh so much..try putting up then?? show me suitable comparable sales around the figure you have just shown me..i dont find it that hard..it only took me the best part of 5 mins to come up with that..im sure there are other examples out there..
put it this way..suppose i came to you and i told you i had 10 house and land packages for you to sell for me..what can you show me to prove to me what these 10 houses are worth..simple enuff???
this i would like to see..
u talk about errors..show me the errors AS well

cheers

 

[muney]

Muney,

Keep in mind there is quite a stigma associated with the Brookdale name in WA revolving around the LWTF (Liquid waste treatment facility). I think it was around 2003 when it was all over the news. Residents complaining of headaches, schools closed, government studies etc. Reports of heavy metal spills etc.

Regardless of the actual location, and the outcomes (and subsequent closures) it was all over the media. My guess if you played word association with any WA resident and said 'Brookdale' they'd come back with something along the lines of 'Toxic Waste'.

http://portal.environment.wa.gov.au/portal/page?_pageid=157,1466944&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

Regards,

Bruce

there are alot of stigmas associated with alot of suburbs where the government is initiating urban renewal..take midland for example..an area known to be for its crime and natives..i guess the same thing can be said about armadale too..BUT there are new infrastructure going in..new shopping centres, train stations, hospitals..to encourage new "cities" and for people to come to these mini cities for work and play etc..
i sold apartments in midland for record prices in feb this year..and this in an area with its fair share of "stigmas"

 

[Rixter]

My guess if you played word association with any WA resident and said 'Brookdale' they'd come back with something along the lines of 'Toxic Waste'.

I agree. Being a Perth resident thats the first thing that came to mind.

 

[muney]

paulie?? im waitinggggggggggg

 

[ArJay]

“All human wisdom is summed up in two words; wait and hope...”
Dumas....

 

[D.T.]

muney, how bout u try growing up a little. Paulie has done nothing but provide countless posts full of invaluable insights that normally need prying with a crow bar from any other real estate agent.

Cheers,

 

[Beef_Hooked]

Sensitive areas

Jeez get out the red ink. Funny observation, whenever the property market is starting to resemble 17th century holland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania ), people become very sensitive about the value of their holdings.

It is currently less offensive to suggest to your friends that their children are a waste of oxygen and even add that their partner is a dud choice that only a moron would become involved with, than to dare hint any opinion that their far flung 3 brm fibro is not worth the xxx sqwilllion dollars they keep telling you it is.

 

[Ausprop]

just reviewing this post...this site is looking cheap now!

 

[Celeste]

The market in and around Seville Grove is great prices still moving up as their is a lack of stock for sale, Armadale whilst suffering the same problem is up in the air a little bit as the latest zoning changes filter through to the market, alot of properties in Armadale can benefit from the R15/R25 rezoning, and the land around the townsite and railway as you already know has the R15/R40.

Hi Paulie

Glad you confirmed my reading of the market around saville grove, my current 2 projects are in between saville and champion lakes (any idea on release dates of champion lakes?).

I noticed since I purchased them that the no. of for sale signs have dropped right off. Excellant.

Oh by the way did you get my email re Maylands?

Celeste