17 year olds

[RumpledElf]

Hehe a friend's 16yo son got a girlfriend and was given The Talk and condoms.

Their example was close to home too - his lazy 28yo elder brother, who has a then-7yo daughter and still lives at home with his parents (who do all the kidminding while he plays WoW).

He's 18 now and no kids! But a broken tooth from drunken scuffles.

 

[Lil Skater]

OK, I stayed calm, and channeled the energy where I felt it would be most effective.

Consequences:
- iphone taken away
- internet restricted
- he got his P driver's license today, and was to be granted use of one of the cars. that's canned until October.
- grounded from social events
- additional chores
- banned from watching his two favorite tv shows for a month
- $300 from his wages will go towards professional carpet and lounge cleaning.

Lol! He got away easy! I remember when i was 13, i decided to go get my belly button pierced (without permission of course!) i was grounded for 3 months, and not a normal grounding or a weak one.

Went something like this:

No phone (home and mobile), no TV, no boyfriend to come to mine and i was not allowed to see him, no friends, no after school anything except training and i had to be home by around 3:20pm as i walked, no computer including internet, i had to take out the piercing - which my friends re-pierced for me the next day (ouch!) but i removed it because i didn't want to get in more trouble, basically i was taken back to the 1800s.

Gradually things started being removed, in the order that i cared about least.

Difference was, i told my parents as i felt guilty!!! Since then i've gotten a few more piercings (possibly an understatement - you be the judge) but my parents have either known or it was a piercings of my ears.

On a similar story however, when i was 17 i went to a friends 18th birthday and had a few drinks, my sister turned up unexpected and i was "hammered" she told my parents ( ) but i didn't get grounded, but i remember them telling me how disappointed they were in me - that was worse than any grounding.

Coming from an 18 year old, i think you have to develop that close relationship with your kids early on to avoid unwanted nasties like this, unfortunately i haven't gotten very close to my parents until i was probably 17.

I won't go into the details of my younger teenage years - but if this is the only problem you've had, you had it easy. Yes it was wrong, yes he deserves to be punished, but you should always let him know that he can come to you and be open..I only wish i knew this years ago, it would've made a lot of difference in the years that i did a lot of stupid stuff.

As stupid as this sounds, perhaps talk to him again and revise your punishment, give him a bit more rope - after all he is an "adult" soon and needs to make mistakes, with this rope see what he does, if he chooses to abuse this privilege then it's too bad and back to the original plan, if he doesn't then you know he has learnt his lesson.

 

[weg]

I take it he won't be having an 18th .

20+ people is a lot when they've been drinking copious amounts inside the house, hours on end.

After putting it as you have I think I'd be furious too. Are you sure you were calm when talking to him .

I must be a bigger softy than you because even though I think the consequences are fine, having most go till October is too long a period for me to impose.

Still he won't be doing it again, that's for sure... well, not in your house anyway.

 

[Strannik]

that aint no 7 person party....that amount of alcohol would have killed 7 people.

kids are getting soft these days....

 

[moyjos]

Still he won't be doing it again, that's for sure... well, not in your house anyway.

THAT is the biggest worry.............
while i was concerned and extremely angry with my kids over stepping "party boundrys"

I always invited the kids to our house for "Saturday night" on the thought that at least they are here not someplace else (too bad for the other parents that may have wondered where there kids were)
We were lucky in the fact that we had a double garage converted rumpus room that meant there was plenty of room partys without TOOO much disruption for us.

Also parties were lockdown...... no one in without an invite....we used to play "Velvet Rope"sometimes (literally..had a sister-in law in the bank who borrowed some ) kids thought it was hilarious

 

[Ajax]

I'd be a bit worried about his mates drinking Malibu and Midori.
(There were a few girls there I'm sure).

They look to be pretty hard drinkers..fair bit of bourbon and rum. Not all beer.

The next door neighbour to me lets his 17 year olds have friends over using the garage at the back of the property (sort of like a teenagers clubhouse). They stay up very late drinking (up till 3.00am at times). In a way he is doing a good thing as the kids are learning to be responsible all by themselves..but learning the hard way. He knows where they are. And they seem to have formed very good friendships.

Things were stricter for me. However it didn't stop us drinking to excess behind parents backs.

If it was my kid I wouldn't say too much...maybe just that some of them are drinking hard spirits (and they need to careful about that as it is probably easier to become an alcoholic drinking spirits than beer). In a way its good to see he has a lot of friends. If it really was only 8 mates drinking together they are total p*ss heads.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Appreciate your input Lil Skater. I think your Mum did the right thing when she saw the body piercing.

Ajax, yes he has a lot of friends. But that doesn't mean a lot. There's a very loose definition on what a friend is at that age. It isn't as if they've stood by each other through good and bad, nor have some sense of duty to each other. It's probably more accurate to say he is popular....I'd prefer he was popular with the right types. He's a bit of an adrenalin junkie and needs better impulse control....not a top academic student, but might just get into civil engineering if he focuses.

His popularity goes to his head a bit and he can be pretty cocky. When I was that age, anyone cocky usually got it punched out of them. things seem different now, as the seniors at his school (same private anglican school I went to) just don't seem to fight, so I think they get a distorted impression of what the world is like......a sheltered upbringing where they don't learn to pull their heads in.

Anyway, what a 24 hours. And I'd never have known if the reasonably new gas hot plate lighter had been where it was supposed to be.

 

[Strannik]

you would've found out next time you would take the rubbish out

 

[Aaron Sice]

i'd say well handled there, WW. round of applause is in order.

i'm seeing a human side to the poster.

it's nice!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

you would've found out next time you would take the rubbish out

Probably not Stran. They had all the alcohol stuff covered with pizza boxes, which I had expected they'd chow into.

i'd say well handled there, WW. round of applause is in order.

i'm seeing a human side to the poster.

it's nice!

For various reasons Aaron, I rarely talk about family and relationship stuff on the forum. It is after all, searchable via google. And keep in mind there's a lot of resentment towards property investors by many younger people who feel frozen out of the market. This has already been an issue for several forumites.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

OK, I stayed calm, and channeled the energy where I felt it would be most effective.

Consequences:
- iphone taken away for good. has to go back to using a more basic phone.
- internet restricted to study time. no downloading of itunes and movies for the rest of grade 12. no msn messenger or other chat.
- he got his P driver's license today, and was to be granted use of one of the cars. that's canned until October.
- grounded from social events until October except for sport, school, and his job 2x 4 hour shifts.
- additional chores and responsibilities at home.
- banned from watching his two favorite tv shows for a month - Top Gear and Bear Grylls Survivor show.
- phone the two closest neighbours and apologise (though they say the fracas could have been worse)
- $300 from his wages will go towards professional carpet and lounge cleaning.

OK, the story goes thus:

Half a dozen mates arrived Thursday afternoon about lunch time, and a drinking session started shortly after. The soccer game was later that night. A few SMSs and hours later, there were 20 people here (which I think is a nice round UNDERESTIMATE). 17 guys and 3 girls so the story goes.

After the soccer game, about half of them went home, and the other half slept the night, and hung around until lunch time.

We asked if there was any more he wanted to add, or did he want to change the story. He said no. I decided to ask a few specifics:

- who bought the alcohol.
- how many were 18yo or older
- how many weren't from school
- how many heavy drinkers were there.
- how much did you drink and who was keeping an eye on the house and property while you were tanked
- did the girls drink heavily. did the three of them stay the night.
- how many got behind the wheel and drove home in the middle of the night.


I then presented a list of the total alcohol at the party as per the empties in the bins, and asked him to divide that by 20 people, and did he want to revise his story.....which he did, at which point we said we'd heard enough.

In answer to some of your questions
- he is the youngest of two. the other is 19.
- he was warned that only the friends he mentioned could come.
- he was told a quiet night watching the soccer was fine, and it was ok for his mates to stay the night, as long as they respected the house in general, and especially the expensive persian rugs, off white carpet, and leather lounges in the tele room.
- the only specific consequences he was warned of beforehand was that he'd be grounded and would not get the use of the cars after getting his P plate.
- My parting words before we left to go away were: "We've given you a long piece of rope. Don't hang yourself with it"

That sounds well handled. The punishment will bite over time.

 

[Amadio]

You handled it well WW, imo.

I once went to a parole officer's meeting with a repeat offender whose dad had died and his mum couldn't handle him (I was accompanying the mum for support).

The parole officer was a wise old bloke and he said - you know - kids just don't know their limitations, but they actually feel secure when they do know.

He said that it's the parents' job to be a brick wall. Kids will try to barrel through that wall, fly over it, dig underneath it, but a parent needs to stand absolutely rock solid so that they know where the boundary is. If a parent gives in and the wall crumbles, not only does the kid now have a difficult time understanding the limitations in civilised life, but the sybmbol of a parent who cares has also crumbled.

And one more thing he said - sometimes the kid needs that brick wall so that he can tell other kids, - no, his dad said no and there's no way that he will disobey that because of the consequences. In other words, you are the kids' excuse not to do something he basically doesn't want to do in the first place, but peer pressure is being exerted so hard that he is struggling to find a way out. That brick wall comes in mighty handy.

Don't mean this for you WW - you obviously have a handle on it - but maybe this will help younger parents as their kids approach their teens.

 

[skater]

And one more thing he said - sometimes the kid needs that brick wall so that he can tell other kids, - no, his dad said no and there's no way that he will disobey that because of the consequences. In other words, you are the kids' excuse not to do something he basically doesn't want to do in the first place, but peer pressure is being exerted so hard that he is struggling to find a way out. That brick wall comes in mighty handy.

This is very true. I know there have been times where both of my kids have done this.

 

[joanmc]

That is so true Amadiio.
We had about 20 16 year olds at our house on the weekend for our sons birthday. We made it clear to him that if we found alcohol on anyone we would be calling their parents to remove them no matter how late it was. So he could tell all his friends not to bring any because his mum was being so horrible about it. It put the blame on me and he could still be "cool".
we have a large place on 5 acres so we also have a "no roaming the streets policy" once they are here they stay here. When they get 18 they can drink and we always have extra blankets and pillows so that anyone can stay here overnight. our daughters 18th we had bodies everywhere! BUT at least noone had been a drink-driving statistic!

MY mum's thoery is if you can get your daughter to 18 without a baby and your son to 18 alive you consider it a success.

 

[Player]

Conformity sometimes rules unfortunately

Excellent learnings for the young (nearly) man. Mr. Wolfe, your response has hit where the hurt may encourage some forethought when he entertains such a notion again.

As other's have posted, could have been worse.....think that Corry Worthington goose from outer S/E Melbourne. The soccer party isn't on youtube is it? Has Max Markson been in touch?

Seriously, I couldn't add anything more to what's been covered. Can I just say, that I wouldn't lessen his punishment or your stance or you'll lose face. He still needs to understand that the tail doesn't wag the dog (at that age at least).................but, I'm sure you already have that stance

Peer pressure, certainly is a more complex web of emotion and confusion than when you and I were that age. There is so much more complexity and distraction (and chemical dangers) for them to involve themselves with, that to go against the grain must seem difficult at that age.

Tell him that to be independant and detached fron the herd (where it's needed such as this type of behaviour) shows true courage. The opposite of courage (sometimes) isn't cowardice; it's conformity.

Whenever you catch him doing a responsible act/duty in the near future without prompting by his yourselves, be sure to reward that behaviour by either (if it resonates with you) returning one of the withdrawn privileges or introducing a new small token reward. As well as attaching pain to the negative, it is empowering to add reward to desired and positive responsible actions.

Well handled in any case and thanks for sharing via this thread; it's brought out some opinion that I'm sure would benefit most parents who have similarly aged teenagers.

 

[RumpledElf]

Ah, punishments.

Showed my partner this thread and he had a complain that he never got the same level of punishment as his sister. She takes the family car without permission and smashes it or goes to a party at 15 and has drunken monkey sex on the lawn and gets off virtually scot-free, he doesn't do a small chore around the house and gets 6 months hard labour. Rinse and repeat for his entire childhood/teens - she was the party animal, he was the nerd in the basement.

Now he has huge issues stemming from this ... literally a case of sit on the shrink's couch ... "tell me about your mother".

 

[Sunfish]

Tell him that to be independant and detached fron the herd

I'm a little detached from this discussion. Mine have never been suckers for peer pressure and have never abused my trust.

I gave No 1 son my old V8 Falcon for his first car, knowing he would not kill himself or anyone else and I was right. I COULD say I would like to see more ambition, but hell, can't have everything.

 

[Perp]

I can remember how little impact it had when my parents asked me not to drink, when I perceived it was all about what they considered appropriate behaviour. Teenagers largely don't care what their parents think is appropriate, unfortunately.

But when I understood that it was about protecting me, I was far more likely to comply. So, for example, I used to drink quite a lot, but I didn't drink-drive, and I wouldn't go in a car with anybody who'd been drinking, because my parents had made it very clear to me how easily I could ruin my life if I did. (I think if I'd also heard more about date rape and other social consequences, I wouldn't have drunk anywhere near so much, but no matter...)

I agree with others that the lying is the worst part; he needs to know that he's going to have to work hard to win back your trust, and that he wouldn't have been punished as harshly if he'd 'fessed up before you discovered what had happened.

Then I'd try and convince him that you're motivated by concern for his welfare, not just wanting to control his behaviour. Perhaps get him to sit through this episode of Australian Story, and ask him whether he thinks Brenton Chaplin wishes that he hadn't been drinking on that fateful night.

The point is that Brenton Chaplin didn't see what the potential consequences were, and didn't expect it to happen to him. Teenagers' brains aren't fully developed and they don't have the life experiences that we do. Your offspring need to know that your primary motivation in all the rules that you set is to protect them and optimise their functioning, not to ruin their fun, and then they're more likely to comply, even if they don't understand why you've set a particular rule.

Good luck, and well done. Thanks for sharing your story with us, WW.

 

[wylie]

We had a huge ruckus here yesterday with the 14 year old because we wouldn't allow him to hire and watch Borat. I have only seen ten minutes of it, and thought it was gross. Apparently the second film is worse

He is just hitting the "terrible teens" and asked me if I would like him to be bullied at school because he is the "only" one who has not seen it. I reminded him that the two boys we took to the beach this weekend for two nights (one of whom goes to his high school) have not seen it, neither have my brothers' sons (to his knowledge) and that he could blame his "horrible" mother for not allowing it. Better still, just don't discuss it. Noboby has to know he hasn't seen it.

He and I ended up yelling at each other, because he would not stop talking about it. We sent him to his room to cool down and clean it up. He stormed out the back door and rode off on his bike. Meanwhile, I confirmed with the other mothers that they would have been unhappy had we allowed them to see it without their consent. They are like us, knowing that they can see it at a friend's place, but preferring for them to wait as long as possible to see such rubbish.

When he came back, we grounded him for the rest of the day. He apologised later and we are back to normal. I realise that now we have made Borat seem even more appealing to him, but too bad. There is enough time for him to see horrible, sleazy movies when he is a bit older. He has seen way more action and 15+ movies than his brothers saw at his age. With a seven year age gap you either separate them for movies, stop the older ones watching anything other than Bambi, or the younger one sees more than they would see if they were the oldest child.

I'm curious to know of those who have seen Borat and Bruno, whether you think a 14 year old boy would enjoy them, or should be allowed to see them. When we first started discussing this yesterday, before the ruckus, my 18 year old son said the movie was pretty gross, his girlfriend said she was not interested in seeing Borat. She saw Bruno with my son and said he squirmed all through it.

 

[imonmyway]

Well handled, stand your ground on the punishments though I think its important for them to teenagers to know someone is in charge. He will probably do the same thing again but clean up properly after himself and his mates which is probably all that this is going to teach him.