2 Bedroom House - Inner City Melbourne

If I got a one bedroom flat in Toorak I would have had to pay at least double of what I paid.

Also I'm not a fan of one bedroom units.

We may have got the cheapest 5 suburbs in Melbourne when we invested, but I think where we bought will not be in the 10 cheapest suburbs for long as it's near the bay and has Eastlink near by and the new freeway being built.
 
I find it hard to believe that the median house price in Toorak was only 700k in 1999.

If it was, not knowing what the median house price is now, it could be argued that Toorak is now overpriced.

I know Doveton was under 100k in 1999 and is now close to 300k today.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=...median+house+price&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

I couldn't get the article up because I had to pay, but it was apparently $755,000 in 1999. The median of Toorak houses fluctuates as you know, given the distorted prices it often fetches, but it seems to be hovering around the $3mil mark on most statistics.

You may think it is overpriced, but in 10 years time, you may be saying 'I couldn't believe the median in 2010 was only $3mil'.
 
Hey Deehwa

I see what you are saying - most people can afford almost anywhere, should they be looking at prices from over ten years ago. The fact of the matter is, ten years ago, they didn't have the earning capacity to service a loan of $700k, because income was lower (and let's not forget interest rates of 18% I think? I'll have to look that up).

Hindsight is 20/20, my point is, no one can see the future, or predict what their earning capacity will be to service a particular loan in X years. It's all well and good that people say "oh I wish I bought in Toorak 11 years ago because it was much more affordable". It would be interesting to crunch the numbers, comparitive to median house prices, to see if the % difference is the same from 99 to 2009 - think you'll find that Toorak is just as 'unaffordable' now, as it was in 99. In ten years, i may well be saying "I wish i'ld bought one of those 3 mil toorak places in 2010" , but there is no way on earth I could borrow, let alone service, a $3mil property.

cheers
AV
 
Hmm the point about wages vs prices is this. Prices tend to move faster than wages in these capitalist societies.

Today the average salary's probably around 60k now. That average price in Toorak is, let's say $3m.

In 1999, the average Toorak price was $750k (ie 1/4 of $3m). But average salries in 1999 were not $15k (ie 1/4 of $60k) yea?

So the issue is the salaryman's buying power has diminished, and that's what things like GDP PPP measure. Buying the same place now is a lot harder than buying back then and will probably keep getting harder. So I'm probably going to make a move for certain suburbs sooner rather than later.

That's just what happens in capitalism and globalisation. As you open up your shores to foreign investors and as the rich-poor divide get bigger, the few select wealthy will drive up prices to the point where even the middle-class struggle. But the alternative is probably a basket case economy.
 
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=...median+house+price&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

I couldn't get the article up because I had to pay, but it was apparently $755,000 in 1999. The median of Toorak houses fluctuates as you know, given the distorted prices it often fetches, but it seems to be hovering around the $3mil mark on most statistics.

You may think it is overpriced, but in 10 years time, you may be saying 'I couldn't believe the median in 2010 was only $3mil'.

From
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=sp&s=vic&u=toorak

toorakmedianhouseprice.jpg
 
So,

Average Australian Wage in 2001 = $31k
Average Australian Wage in 2009 = $63k

Toorak Median 2001 = $1,245,000
Toorak Median 2009 = $2,160,000

I would say that is pretty much in line with my last post. Just as unaffordable now, as it was in 2001.
 
Deehwa

RE data only goes to 2001, could you maybe just try to do down the sarcasim a little? Forumite was only trying to assist in providing some hard data. You've already posted that the 1999 data requires funds to purchase.

Yes, it would be good to get the proper 1999-2000 data. If anyone has it, it would be much appreciated.
 
Be good to get the 1999 figure, as that was one significant boom.

Posted by our obsession in this thread:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=552276&highlight=brighton+altona#post552276

....and just for fun, decade median house price growth for some of these suburbs, 94-05 and 97-08.

ALTONA: change 94-05: 191% ............97-08: 213% ..Growth Per Annum for 97-08: 12.1%

ALTONA NORTH: 94-05: 172%................97-08: 227% ..GPA 97-08: 12.6%

ALTONA MEADOWS: 97-08 only: 138% ..GPA 97-08: 9%

ARDEER: 94-05 change: 126%.........97-08: 150% ..GPA: 9.6%

BRAYBROOK: 94-05: 236%...............97-08: 266%..GPA:13.9%

BRIGHTON: 94-05: 203%.................97-08: 256%..GPA: 13.5%

CARLTON: 94-05: 114%..................97-08: 211%....12%

CARLTON NORTH: 97-08 only: 183%....11%

ELWOOD: 94-05: 204%.................97-08: 234%.....12.8%

ESSENDON: 94-05: 192%...............97-08: 231%.....12.7%

HAMPTON: 94-05: 220%...............97-08: 289%.....14.6%

KENSINGTON: 94-05: 185%............97-08: 198%....11.5%

MENTONE: 94-05: 185%................97-08: 227%.....12.6%

MORDIALLIC: 94-05: 182%.............97-08: 246%.....13.2

SANDRINGHAM: 94-05: 169%..........97-08: 188%.....11.1%

SEDDON: (less than 10 sales)....94-05: 218%....97-08: 207%....11.9%

SPOTSWOOD: 94-05: 232%..........97-08: 242%........13.1%

TOORAK: 94-05: 175%..................97-08: 210%......12%


Source: Victorian Valuer-General Statistics 94-05 and 97-08.
 
So,

Average Australian Wage in 2001 = $31k
Average Australian Wage in 2009 = $63k

Toorak Median 2001 = $1,245,000
Toorak Median 2009 = $2,160,000

I would say that is pretty much in line with my last post. Just as unaffordable now, as it was in 2001.

Going back to what I said about the median Toorak house price being $755,000 in 1999. You can also see the median Brighton house price was $490,000. Using this as a basis, it would be fair to say the average Armadale, Canterbury house was mid $400K’s and following on Kew/Hawthorn/Camberwell be either in the high $300K’s or low $400K’s. The next rung would probably be something like Glen Iris, Surrey Hills and Mont Albert which would be around the mid $300K’s and as we work around these figures, you can see it was quite affordable in 1999. Nowadays, all the above suburbs have median house prices WAY above the $1mil mark. It would be even more affordable had I discussed the unit prices in those above respective suburbs.
What is important to note, and this is more a capitalist argument, is that over time, the rich becomes richer, and as what Deltaberry said, the rich-poor divide gets greater and greater. Hence, the growth of premium assets, whether that be property, or businesses gets exponentially out of reach for the majority of the population. Whilst in some sense, it was true that even a $400K house was a hefty price tag in 1999, it was still purchasable and not beyond the means of a large group of Australians.
I guess the best way to alleviate this is pretty much follow what Deltaberry has been preaching and that is buy within your means, and target those ‘suburbs’ which is anticipated to become even more out of reach to even the middle class (and thus, achieving positive abnormal growth). If that means buying an apartment/flat or unit in a premium suburb (and don’t tell me you guys can’t afford that, considering half the people on SS have multiple houses in Melton, Werribee/Hoppers) then so be it.
 
Deehwa

RE data only goes to 2001, could you maybe just try to do down the sarcasim a little? Forumite was only trying to assist in providing some hard data. You've already posted that the 1999 data requires funds to purchase.

Yes, it would be good to get the proper 1999-2000 data. If anyone has it, it would be much appreciated.

Ok, I agree the tonality was probably not appropriate. Sorry Forumite!
 
If that means buying an apartment/flat or unit in a premium suburb (and don’t tell me you guys can’t afford that, considering half the people on SS have multiple houses in Melton, Werribee/Hoppers) then so be it.

Shouldn't we be comparing median house price in an outer suburb with median apartment price in an inner suburb, for any comparison and analysis to be valid?

Most of the time, people have been talking about median house price and relative growth of inner versus outer suburbs, forgetting for the same budget you can only buy an apartment in the inner suburb.
 
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