2008 US Presidential Election

Pretty much spot on.

For what it's worth, I think Osama will win. But then again, Gore won in 2000 and Kerry won in 2004 but the Republicans stole both elections, so we'll see.

Mark

I hope you're right.

The problem is, over here it's not compulsory to vote, so the most likely voters are the more educated and in touch with the economics of the Country (republicans). These peole are VERY unlikely to vote for a black man, and probably not for a woman.

The votes that Obama needs (black Americans) traditionally are very under represented at voting day, so unless he can convince them to get off their backsides and vote, he's got buckley's.
 
The votes that Obama needs (black Americans) traditionally are very under represented at voting day, so unless he can convince them to get off their backsides and vote, he's got buckley's.

They're underrepresented (at least in the last few elections, can't comment on before then, haven't done any research pre-2000) because the voting is rigged by the Republicans. They use tricks like sending out false voting information, providing outdated vote card punchers which don't work, making claims that people can't vote because they are felons (when they aren't), deliberately holding up voting queues (people waiting for 8+ hours in line), absentee votes getting 'lost', etc.

If you're interested in looking into this further, you should be able to find some information on Greg Palast's website at www.gregpalast.com

Mark
 
They're underrepresented (at least in the last few elections, can't comment on before then, haven't done any research pre-2000) because the voting is rigged by the Republicans. They use tricks like sending out false voting information, providing outdated vote card punchers which don't work, making claims that people can't vote because they are felons (when they aren't), deliberately holding up voting queues (people waiting for 8+ hours in line), absentee votes getting 'lost', etc.

If you're interested in looking into this further, you should be able to find some information on Greg Palast's website at www.gregpalast.com

Mark

Could be true. I wouldn't doubt any of it. There isn't a straight shooter in the whole State of Washington DC. Obama is the best of a bad lot in imho.

Thanks for that, but sorry if I gave the impression that I'm interested in their Elections Mark.

Far from it.

Lots of hot air and posturing, personal attacks and lying contests.

You can't escape it here. :mad:
 
Who thinks that team Schwarzenegger/Shriver will somehow someday (after country of birth is not a problem) will be Pres/First Lady.

I think they are an amazing, powerful combination - I have followed them as a couple out of pure interest at the combination they are for years and years.

I just see them rise higher and higher into the political stratosphere. Governor of California is surely not the highest position Arnie would be satisfied with.

What's his next option in politics I wonder ?

(By the way - hi all I'm a new poster as of today - I've asked a question regarding a sporting facility opportunity that I would love some opinion on) - if you can be bothered it is in the general property investment thread. No responses yet - and I want some urgently.:)
 
I'm surprised by the number of Hillary Clinton supporters here, as she really doesn't stand for the change that she espouses in her soundbyte speeches. Obama is a bit the same, though he is the best of the Democrats, now that Dennis Kucinich has unfortunately dropped his bid for the White House.

Bush has done more damage to the US than any "terrorist" could hope to achieve, and so what they really need now is a real change from the principles they had adopted in the early 20th century with regards to monetary policy and foreign policy. Hence, the only candidate on either side that holds any real hope for the US is Republican hopeful Ron Paul. It's a real pity that the media has labelled him a long shot and pretty much ignored him - plus, the public is not active or sympathetic enough to care and do their research before voting. Many people vote based on name recognition or on unimportant crap like gender and race.

Solving problems has to be done on a different level of thinking than the thinking that created the problems in the first place, and that is why a Hillary presidency will not give the country the change it so needs. Einstein told us this. Heck, Hillary voted for the war in Iraq!

Democracy is a failure unless the voting public are truly informed and care.
 
Obama vr's Osama has a nice ring to it. :)

My theory, and I am way more cynical than most;

Osama is long since dead, and the US Govt/War machine is simply trotting his name out now and again to keep the fear factor up, concocting false tapes and supposed sightings etc at regular and planned intervals; to give them just cause to keep their profit-making war going.
 
My theory, and I am way more cynical than most;

Osama is long since dead....

Imho if OSB was dead and they had proof (I mean proof proof, not WMD in Iraq proof) then they'd be crowing about it.

Remember, GHWB copped alot of flack for not getting Saddam - nevermind that it actually wasn't their intention back in 1991 (of course GWB did eventually get him).

OSB, on the other hand, takes his place on the FBIs Top 10 most wanted fugitives - and I'm quite sure they don't want to shake his hand and pat his back....



It would require a constitutional change.

I think that was suggested in one of his movies?

I think it was a Sly Stallone movie, actually...

Though it's ironic that in a nation that was founded on immigration and that owes so much to immigrants, specifically excludes them from the top job.

Fwiw, to be eligible to become POTUS you need to be a (a) a natural born US citizen, (b) at least 35 years of age, and (c) have resided in the US for at least 14 years.

M
 
..Though it's ironic that in a nation that was founded on immigration and that owes so much to immigrants, specifically excludes them from the top job.

Immigration seems to be an issue that the US has a continuing problem dealing with.

LAA, being over there, you may be able to give a more balanced view on whether the immigration issue will be an important one for the election? The Republicans always make a fuss over it , but is that resonating in middle America?
 
Immigration seems to be an issue that the US has a continuing problem dealing with.

Part of the problem might be that the US Government doesn't adequately recognise the contribution that many immigrants make to everyday life in the US.

I'm not talking about the minority who are smuggling drugs across the border in Texas, but I am talking about the vast majority who are just trying to find and work towards a better life.

M

ps. Never been to the US but spoken at length on the topic with my Chiro (a US citizen) and the much-better-half (she lived in Texas for 5 years).
 
Immigration seems to be an issue that the US has a continuing problem dealing with.

LAA, being over there, you may be able to give a more balanced view on whether the immigration issue will be an important one for the election? The Republicans always make a fuss over it , but is that resonating in middle America?

Sadly, it appears that the Govt doesn't care.

All the Govt needs to do to fix the immigration problem here is DO THEIR JOB. In every town on selected corners there you will see 50-100 Mexican men and boys waiting around to pick up some labouring work from a passer-by with a truck. Everyone knows what's going on, but that doesn't stop the construction bosses from giving them $50 cash for the day. If the Govt was serious, they would turn up with a convoy of State police with trucks, round 'em all up and demand to see credentials. Anyone without a SS number or passport; ship 'em back to Encinada, or throw 'em in jail for breaking the law. But they never do it.

There are enough rules in place to deter the stampede, but there is very little prosecution going on in the Country. There was a case of a Businessman being sued a few weeks ago because he insisted that all his staff be able to speak English to be hired. Not a racist slant at all; just a fair request, given that the main language in the Country is English, and he has the right to stipulate rules as the employer. The Govt can easily impose hefty fines on businesses who employ undocumented workers, but no-one ever gets prosecuted. So, this guy is in trouble for trying to do the right thing and make an indirect stand.

There are even well documented cases of Mexican women crossing the border on foot to have their babies in San Diego Hospitals (and other Statessuch as Arizona nad Texas), just so they can stay in the Country because their baby is an American Citizen. The Hospitals know that they are doing it, but can't refuse to help them as the women wait until they are in advanced labour, then run in the front door.

In my opinion, and I'm just an outsider looking in, the whole immigration thing from the Govt's point of view is not a concern. I don't think it is exclusively a Republican attitude; it is a Congress/Washington attitude.

I think that they simply lip-service the Nation about doing something to fix it, even though the Nation is very upset about the situation. The immigration issue raises it's head from time to time in the Election campaigns, but the Republicans very quickly distract the campaigns with talk of same-sex issues, gay rights and anti-terrorism etc, and personal mud-slinging matches with the Democrats, rather than addressing the real issues that people are concerned about on a daily basis; education, healthcare, wages, housing.

Why? Because it would appear that Govt in this Country is heavily influenced, if not controlled, by Corporate America. Their goal is to maximise their profits for their shareholders however they can.

George Bush promised some 300 miles of border fencing (big deal) when we first arrived in Sept '05. Still no fence. Two border control guards are in jail, after being found guilty of firing on illegals who were drug-running at the border last year.

One of the biggest costs of any corporation is wages, and with so many immigrants, both legal and illegal, willing to work for next to nothing, there is no incentive for any reform to occur.

In our 2.5 years here, I have seen very, very few "WASP" people working in low income jobs. Pick any industry you like; construction, agriculture, take-away food, home maintenance, service, retail, hospitality, transport etc. They are almost exclusively staffed by immigrants and Blacks.

I often here that these jobs are staffed by immigrants because the white folk won't do them; but the reality is that the white folk won't work for $7 an hour (or less) with no penalty rates and no holiday pay. Walmart is perhaps the worst offender, but EVERY national "chain" business does it. Construction, factories and farming are also very big.

One of our friends in L.A has no less than 7 people to do work around the house; 3 house cleaners, 3 gardeners and 1 pool guy. The entire bill for the week for all 7 people is less than $100 per week; it is not a lot of money for this family. The workers are all Mexican. Are they all legal? Our friend doesn't care; he gets his entire house looked after for pocket money.

Last weekend, we took our son to a sticker factory just on the outskirts of San Fran. It is a family business started by a WASP mother on her kitchen table 40 years ago. Now, her son and herself run it; they are the CEO and CFO. It is a multi-million dollar business. We did a tour of the factory, and in an hour spent in that facility, I did not see one "American".

The reality is that while Corporate America can get away with cheap labour, they will never work hard to improve the wage structure here, and with such influence on Capitol Hill, the Govt aren't in a hurry either. So, in effect, they are turning a blind eye to it all.

Professional and specialty jobs still do well, but many middle-management jobs are being shipped overseas or have already.

Mark_B:
It is true that many of the immigrants from the south are hard working, solid contributors to the community. But they are all too willing to work for next to nothing, and while this is the case, and without a strong union presence, they are unwittingly holding back the rest of the population, and the Country is letting them.

The pattern has been set; lower wages, less benefits; people willing to work for peanuts, unions have lost their power, and it will be very hard to change it.
 
Imho if OSB was dead and they had proof (I mean proof proof, not WMD in Iraq proof) then they'd be crowing about it.

M

Would they? He is far more use to the "War Machine" alive than dead.

Do you really believe that a bunch of guys living in caves with a few rifles and hand held grenade launchers is going to evade the massive size and technologically superior US Army for all these years?

The other possibility, I guess, is that he is alive and well, the US Govt know where he is, know he is no threat and still use him for some occasional propaganda to feed to the sheep.

How else can they perpetuate the "War on Terror" if he's gone and Al Qaeda are splintered and ineffectual? You can't keep fighting a war without an enemy.

This whole Iraq charade is perpetuated through constant blame on the terrorists as a reason to be there.

It has also been proven that death squads were formed and armed by the US Govt to pit the Iraqis against each other; Sunni against Shi'ite and vice versa. "Divide and conquer" I believe the term is.

Everyone in this Country knows it was and still is only about the oil. If you want a fight over here; just say G.W is a great bloke.

I feel sorry for the kids over there fighting, and their families who have to grieve for them because of this total waste of time war.

I also feel sorry for the Iraqis; they are a great people, and absolutely don't want the Yanks there.
 
I'm glad Merovingian mentioned Ron Paul, he striles me as a candidate that talks honestly and more sense than most. In fact he really impresses me, I would vote for him.
Then Obama then Hillary, I find her "smile" off-putting.
 
Also, Ron Paul is the only cnadidate that I have heard say would bring the troops home. He says the war is un-constitutional and he would bring the troops home, if they want to fight a war then they have to formally declare war first.
 
Also, Ron Paul is the only cnadidate that I have heard say would bring the troops home. He says the war is un-constitutional and he would bring the troops home, if they want to fight a war then they have to formally declare war first.

Ron is popular that's for sure; mainly because everyone has had a gutful of the Bush admin, and the Democrats have so far been ineffectual since they gained control of Congress.

Sadly, he won't figure very high unless something miraculous happens I think. His profile is vey low at the moment.

Obama had an easy win at South Carolina, and for anyone who is interested, watch his speech after the results were delivered: http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&from=msnhome

It is very inspiring, and he has always been against the "Iraq oil grab" since day one.
 
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Ohio and Texas Democratic primaries in about 12 hours..

Ohio will be a line ball, but Texas will go to Obama. I think by Friday night Clinton will drop out and start begging Obama for the VP slot - an offer he will rightfully decline in favour of John Edwards, who he needs to court moderate evangelicals and other wingnuts in the South

Jamie.

PS Such is the groundswell for Obama that even right wing loonies like Rush Limbaugh are now begging people to vote for Clinton to keep Obama from the General Election.
 
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