5 year fixed rates thread

This whole thing about rapidly rising rates sounded whacky from the outset.

I agree!

My simple investor view is this:
  • let market drive demand/supply
  • dont mess with fundamentals
  • FHOG messed with fundamentals
  • FHOG increased demand at bottom
  • all stuffed
The RBA is not to blame. It was Treasury who boosted the FHOG market in the stimulis and left RBA to be the grim reaper when it moves rates up. We now have a FHO boom that appears to be translating into a property boom. In some places like Sydney Inner it is justified. Other areas it is very weak.

We now have the (ironic) problem of our own sub-prime!:rolleyes:

Low income home owners, enticed by easy money, buying homes with no deposit, with the prospect of job losses just when rates are going up!

RBA is trying to stop this bushfire but unless some pain is restored, it will end in a crash. I am so concerned I am tempted to sell my FHO territory IPs and take some easy cash and avoid the slump......l am sitting on 30% CG in only 2 years after being cf neutral.

Peter
 
I am so concerned I am tempted to sell my FHO territory IPs and take some easy cash and avoid the slump......l am sitting on 30% CG in only 2 years after being cf neutral.

Peter

I went through similar thoughts Peter.....but before Lehman's blew up.

I missed the 'capital preservation' the FHB vendor bonus would have delivered, but I felt pre GFC, the fundamentals would not support further strong cg, so liquidated to move capial where it was more in demand. The gains I lost in the vendor bonus, I made up in gold trading.

re rate movements, I think any strength in our economy is dependent on China. And I am not sure China's recovery is built on a rock.

There's so many excuses for the RBA to manipulate consumer sentiment at the moment, I wouldn't put it past them to raise rates this year, even though the medium to long term fundamentals probably don't support it.
 
RBA states consumer demand!

Hello All

Catach today AFR and they advise the RBA gov has clarified what will be central to rate rises and that is household spending.

It is page 1 and page 8 but I cannot link as AFR is not free viewing.

The gist is this:
  • consumer demand had emerged as key to shaping rate decisions
  • board affirmed next move wouldverylikely be up (we accept that)
  • concerned (any rise) too early would choke of confidence
  • RBA will not have clear data on post stimulus spending until late Sept
Essentially the same many of us have been saying here. Time to fix is gone, time to stay variable is now. If you cannot go over 7% then fix now.

Peter
 
gee those nutjob conspiracy theories of mine don't sound so....well, nutjobby now.

i reckon the RBA will raise rates, realise the mistake and have to save face by not raising them again until 2010, when the next big US sell off begins.
 
Even if the variable rates were raised to the level of the current fixed five year rates, isn't it possible that fixed rates could remain about where they are? Not so long ago the fixed rates were nudging up under the variable rate. Could it happen again?
 
Is it possible that higher fixed rates are being introduced beyond actual funding costs to turn people off fixing their home loans, which gives greater flexibility or possibly profitability for the banks in the next cycle? I know the RBA would probably prefer to have everybody on variable rates as it makes their policy changes more effective.

The Banks keep banging on about "increased funding costs" but in the US you can fix for 15 years at around 5% at the moment. Their US prime rates are 3.25.. Even adding 2-3% on that for fat profit doesn't explain our 8.x% long-term rates. And LIBOR is still shrinking, not rising -- chart: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/cbuilder?ticker1=US0003M:IND

Are the banks blatantly lying to our face and taking us for a ride on fixed rates?
 
Is it possible that higher fixed rates are being introduced beyond actual funding costs to turn people off fixing their home loans, which gives greater flexibility or possibly profitability for the banks in the next cycle? I know the RBA would probably prefer to have everybody on variable rates as it makes their policy changes more effective.

The Banks keep banging on about "increased funding costs" but in the US you can fix for 15 years at around 5% at the moment. Their US prime rates are 3.25.. Even adding 2-3% on that for fat profit doesn't explain our 8.x% long-term rates. And LIBOR is still shrinking, not rising -- chart: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/cbuilder?ticker1=US0003M:IND

Are the banks blatantly lying to our face and taking us for a ride on fixed rates?

No.........
 
Even if the variable rates were raised to the level of the current fixed five year rates, isn't it possible that fixed rates could remain about where they are? Not so long ago the fixed rates were nudging up under the variable rate. Could it happen again?

Yes, Fixed rates can be under variable, this happended only 1 year ago. We are at the other end at the moment. Expected growth is being factored in.

I amd pro fix and at the moment there is no benefit to do so.

Peter
 
To move on slightly.......

Today 5 yr fixed rates are ~7.5%.

If you were offered a fixed rate of 6.25% for 5 yrs TODAY, would you fix ?

If yes, then why didn't you fix at that rate 6 months ago ?
 
To move on slightly.......

Today 5 yr fixed rates are ~7.5%.

If you were offered a fixed rate of 6.25% for 5 yrs TODAY, would you fix ?

If yes, then why didn't you fix at that rate 6 months ago ?

GOOOD question, hard to say. Personally, no.

WHY? I still believe, we are in for a L recovery and todays fixed rates are based on overestimated signs of recovery. However in 2 years itme I would take 6.5% for five years as I think it will take that long to get the a sustainable 6.5%.

I am probably totally wrong.

Peter

PS I need to clarify that I only pay 5.1% at the moment so I am talking about an increase of 1.4%. If I was paying 5.7% I would take the 6.5% now.
 
I'm taking my lead on rates from the Chinese, Indian, and Brazilian stock markets.....as is the bond market it seems.

How are they going :confused:

________________________________________________________________


NZ based below, but worth the read

which-mortgage-fixed-rate-best/

ASB, ANZ, and National Bank increased their 2 Year through to 5 Year mortgage rates last week. Generally the 1 Year Rate is down at around 5.40% and the 5 Year is up around 8.20%-8.30%. That is almost a 3% difference in rates! Rates going up is likely to stir some level of fear amongst those closely following rates. I’ve been reading a few other blogs related to interest rates and some comments are enough to scare your pants off. DON’T PANIC!!!

Quick Summary

I’m still fairly relaxed about rates. My view is still to split your mortgage into multiple parts and fix using short-term rates (floating through to 18 month fixed.) Based on my forecast of mortgage rates you will SAVE between 8% and 20% on your interest costs by using consecutive 1 year fixed rates rather than a 5 year fixed rate. This post explore “how” in more detail

In Reality - what is a Fixed Rate?

There is no debate that eventually interest rates will go up - we are at the bottom of an interest rate cycle. With a fixed rate you pay a premium now for a set period of certainty. However, you will not avoid higher fixed rates altogether. In 3-5 years time your fixed rate will mature and rates will be significantly higher than today. If you are simply trying to avoid higher rates later on - ask yourself will my fixed rate achieve this or simply delay the inevitable?

Whether you take a 3 year fixed rate or 3 consecutive 1 year rates, in 3 years you will be at the same point - with a maturing fixed rate. So the question is what strategy saves me the most interest over those 3 years? (I think the 1 year!)

With a Short-Term Mortgage Rate you will pay less Interest.
Given that fixed rates only provide limited certainty, and that as outlined above there are other ways of building certainty, the big question is under what option will I pay less interest? This depends on (1) how quickly you are paying off your mortgage and (2) how quickly mortgage rates increase.

Using some cool mathematics we can calculate how quickly rates need to increase for the 5 year fixed rate to be considered good value. These rates are shown below as Implied Future Rates (Grey). We have shown these against my view of how future rates will track (Orange.)

See site for chart

If rates pan out as I expect then you’ll pay up to 20% less interest using short-term rates. On a $400,000 mortgage that equates to an extra $32,000 off your mortgage in 5 years time. Based on my view of interest rates I consider the fair value for a 5 year fixed rate to be 6.95%. (Back in February when it was below this level we recommended fixing for 5 years but have since been calling shorter term fixed as offering better value.)

Even if rates increase faster than I expect (green scenario) you’ll still be better off using short term rates paying up to 8% less interest over 5 years.

Just looking at the rates/calculator

At 5.5% on a $1,000,000 Loan over 25 years, the IO payments will be $4,583 p/mth

At 6.5% on a $1,000,000 Loan over 25 years, the IO payments will be $5,416 p/mth

At 7.5% on a $1,000,000 Loan over 25 years, the IO payments will be $6,250 p/mth

At 8.5% on a $1,000,000 Loan over 25 years, the IO payments will be $7,083 p/mth

At 9.5% on a $1,000,000 Loan over 25 years, the IO payments will be $7,916 p/mth

How high do we see them going?
 
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How are they going :confused:

tnx = 10 year us treasury note
bsesn = bombay sensex index

tnx%20bse.gif
 
To move on slightly.......

Today 5 yr fixed rates are ~7.5%.

If you were offered a fixed rate of 6.25% for 5 yrs TODAY, would you fix ?

If yes, then why didn't you fix at that rate 6 months ago ?

Yes, I would happily fix at that rate today if I had the option.
I did fix what I could when the rate was just slightly below that.

I remember in mid-2008 with variables at their peak, how I wistfully longed for the 5 year fixed rate of 7.15% that I had missed out on some 12 months earlier. So it was an easy decision to take up a rate that was around 6.25%!
 
Thanks Winston

Its still pretty choppy in those international waters

SSE Composite Index
 

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this is a trend that has been commented on a lot recently and expected to continue.
I don't know about that one,this time last year the cash rate was 7.25% today it's 3%,oil us a barrell one year ago was $112.00 now it's in the low 70$$$ range,10 year bonds are not much different 5.9 down to 5.6,gold up from $792.00 -one year ago $950.00,and with that room to move the rates may go up a lot quicker that most think imho, this time last year the ASX was in the 5039 range,,willair..
 
when do you see macro forces getting back to 'this time last year'?
I've never been any good at precise forecasting,but it can only go 2 ways from this stage,if you listened to some punters Gold was going to be above $2000 an once,and the ASX was going into the low 2500 mark
your portfolio would have been hammered sideways if you went down that path, i still think it's going to be a slow upward trend from this stage,but that can change overnight:)..imho willair.
 
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