A question for the women.

[rugrat]

I don't care if it is because of 'traditional' gender roles - it is still patronising. DH would be just as PO if they treated him like an idiot or ignored him. I think that it isn't wrong to be able to expect people to treat BOTH members of a couple as thinking contibuting human beings, certainly at least until they have proven otherwise.

Maybe I am unusual - I don't know - All the women I associate with are intelligent people (or at least reasonably so), regardless as to whether they are SAHM's or hold full time jobs, who are able to understand finances, etc - at least to a basic degree. Those in relationships aren't wall flowers, who choose to leave those matters solely to their partners - even those who may sometimes appear defferential or quiet to the general public.

I really think noone should ever underestimate a woman's influence.

Personally I am always surprised (and then annoyed) when I encounter such attitudes, because I am not even close to what may be decribed as 'quiet' or a 'wallflower'. Although I have heard myself described as blunt and intimidating.

 

[weg]

Perhaps. My experience of "conservative" households where such rules are still in play are conservative Christian households who have chosen the SAHM thing, and the flip side is that it's understood that the house is the woman's domain and she is trusted to run it her way. The man has what you might call a right of veto, but part of respecting the woman as wife and mother (in the old fashioned sense) is respecting that unless he strongly disagrees, it's up to her.

Perhaps this is how it appears to you (your perception) as an observer of households that are Christian and/or sahm. It is very hard to pick up the exact dynamics of dominance between a couple let alone a group of couples even when they share similar paths.

This is where I think wrong assumptions are often made and in particular with sahm. I'm sure if rugrat worked and dressed in less casual attire (think neat office wear) the bank manager may have thought and behaved differently. If rugrat or all your friends got jobs tomorrow would they be different?

Many sahm are dominant and assertive within their relationship and make decisions regarding finances but you are not likely to be aware of it unless you live with the couple.

 

[Pushka]

To be honest I havent really had too many problems with this. The only time I had an issue was with 'Cool or Cozy' who flatly refused to come out and quote for insulation if my husband wasn't present. So I flatly refused to deal with them. I tend to do all the house repair negotiations, money negotiations, contracts etc and sometimes the repairs go astray but suspect that is more to do with finding a good tradie than because of gender issues. I never exit the house in anything less than good quality jeans/shoes (the trackies and runners are for home/gym) but I dont wear much make up at any time. The babies, sadly are long grown up.

 

[deejay]

Perhaps this is how it appears to you (your perception) as an observer of households that are Christian and/or sahm. It is very hard to pick up the exact dynamics of dominance between a couple let alone a group of couples even when they share similar paths.

I was talking about people I know, not every SAHM and/or conservative Christian family in the world. We're a slightly-less-conservative-Christian, SAHM-for-ten-years family ourselves. And I do know how their dynamics work - they discuss it freely.

This is where I think wrong assumptions are often made and in particular with sahm. I'm sure if rugrat worked and dressed in less casual attire (think neat office wear) the bank manager may have thought and behaved differently. If rugrat or all your friends got jobs tomorrow would they be different?

I do think how you dress makes a difference, and it probably should. It sends a signal that "I'm here to do business." That doesn't mean you have to show up in a suit, necessarily (although I would in some markets). Usually just nicely done hair and makeup will be enough. But people can only make their best guess of what you're there for based on how you present yourself. It's naive to think they'll see everyone the same. Especially if the husband shows up looking like he's there for business and the wife doesn't. That sends a very clear signal about who's taking the job seriously.

Does that mean that you can't buy a house if you're dressed down? Hell no. And I don't think you should dress up necessarily if you're battling the limits of time and space and getting three little ones dressed as well. But you might have to swat away a few annoying misconceptions along the way as a result. That's life. If a guy showed up in trackies and his wife was in a suit, I think in 95% of cases they'd talk to the woman, so it isn't one-way.

 

[lizzie]

i have to laugh - in our house i am the one who does the ordering, gets the quotes, organises the tradies etc - and because hubby and i have different surnames, he often gets referred to as mr (my name).

really peeves him off. he just can't go "whatever" as i do when get call mrs (his surname) and he kicks up a bit of a fuss. rather old fashioned in that manner.

 

[Dazz]

I tend to do all the house repair negotiations, and sometimes the repairs go astray but suspect that is more to do with finding a good tradie than because of gender issues.

We had a large difficult tree in the backyard that needed removing a couple of years ago. I was busy at work so my wife arranged 3 lovely and kind treeloppers to come around and give a quote to her during work hours over the space of about a week.

Quotes were $ 1,350.00 and $ 1,450.00 and $ 1,600.00

FTFAJ.

I called up the same guys to come around again on the Saturday morning, making sure they bumped into one another as they passed in the driveway, and this time I met them out the back with my overalls and boots on, with my chainsaw in hand, saying if the quote wasn't a proper one this time I'll chop it down myself and they'll get nothing.

Best came back at $ 650.00 and it was gone the next day.

For the same reason, the wife doesn't interact with any of the industrial Tenants, she's too nice a person and would get rolled every time. When the truck drivers and bobcat drivers and panel beaters are all women, then it will work.....but until then....

 

[weg]

I was talking about people I know, not every SAHM and/or conservative Christian family in the world. We're a slightly-less-conservative-Christian, SAHM-for-ten-years family ourselves. And I do know how their dynamics work - they discuss it freely.

I thought it was more than a handful you were referring to. Sorry if that offended.

It's just that many would assume... Christian and sahm = husband makes important decisions..... sahm = less important than husband.

I've got to mention this because it's the first thing that sprang to mind after reading the Christian sahm quote. The only conservative Christian sahm I know is a big built woman a few cms taller than her husband, very domaneering, and clearly states her mind at all times. God fearing in her case would mean God fearing her (not to mention REA or bank managers) .

 

[Rockstar]

I met them out the back with my overalls and boots on, with my chainsaw in hand,

The gun was in the other hand eh?

 

[Rockstar]

Hi, I went to look at a commercial property and was asked "Where's your husband?

KY, and all this time I thought you were a guy.

Sorry bout that, RS

 

[deejay]

God fearing in her case would mean God fearing her (not to mention REA or bank managers) .

That quote made my day. Just sayin'.

 

[Minxdamanx]

I've never had a problem with anything house related - either purchases or tradies or insurance or any of that stuff. I do all the running around and Mr Minx just signs where he needs to. That doesn't mean that he's not involved in the decisions as he most definitely is - but just busy and happy to let me do the dealing and nagging.

However where I've found the problem is anything car related - purchases or repairs, now that whole industry seems to have a problem dealing with a woman! Thank goodness that our son is a mechanic and can explain things to me beforehand so I don't get fed some rubbish line. Infuriating!

 

[rugrat]

I do think how you dress makes a difference, and it probably should. It sends a signal that "I'm here to do business." That doesn't mean you have to show up in a suit, necessarily (although I would in some markets). Usually just nicely done hair and makeup will be enough. But people can only make their best guess of what you're there for based on how you present yourself. It's naive to think they'll see everyone the same. Especially if the husband shows up looking like he's there for business and the wife doesn't. That sends a very clear signal about who's taking the job seriously.

Does that mean that you can't buy a house if you're dressed down? Hell no. And I don't think you should dress up necessarily if you're battling the limits of time and space and getting three little ones dressed as well. But you might have to swat away a few annoying misconceptions along the way as a result. That's life. If a guy showed up in trackies and his wife was in a suit, I think in 95% of cases they'd talk to the woman, so it isn't one-way.

2 points -

1) DH works in a suit (an expensive one). I look after the kids in 'casual' (not daggy) clothes. My 'work' clothes (aka, suits etc) do not fit atm, as I have just had a baby 3 weeks ago. I am hardly going to buy some new ones so this type of person 'might' take me a little more seriously. As for hair, mine is short - can only wear it one way. Make up - I only wear the stuff to weddings. Either way I am presentable, no tracky dacks here - I consider my dress to be of 'canberra standard.

2) DH dresses in casual gear on the weekends, when we do most of our 'talking' to people - so we are often dressed to the same standard.

Also this attitude doesn't happen everywhere, just with some ignorant fools.

 

[deejay]

Either way I am presentable, no tracky dacks here - I consider my dress to be of 'canberra standard.

Oooh, that surprises me. I've lived in Sydney and Canberra (and a few points in between) and my experience was that Canberra was much less sexist due to the high proportion of senior public service women. In that case I'm shocked, amazed, and glaring at the ignorant fools with you.

 

[our obsession]

Rugrat:

A question for the women.


Have any of you women felt completely patronised by (not all) but quite a large number of (usually male) people that you have to deal with when investing in property? You know, brokers, bank staff, REA's, solicitors, etc.

No. Professionals at their jobs, helpful, and we kind of know of each other, regional communities, tribal folk/small world....I enjoy doing business with them.

I think the toughest RE was female, bought some land off her not long ago. I just mimicked her "talk" back to her and we got on fine.

 

[lisag]

let me debrief

yes i have experienced this quiet often.. It gives me the S&^&Ts.
I now deal mainly with other women in the Tax accountant / MB & where ever else i can, no I haven't swapped sides / teams, I am just fed up with this attitude. When I turn up to "meetings" with 4 children in toe, ask and what income is hubby on I reply, and then so your at home with the kids?? why is that presumed, I respond no and let them know by how much more I earn then hubby, so yes i am the main income earner!! I know it doesn't matter in retrospect, but get with the times!!
I was brought up in a farming family & only child, so I did my share of hard work and for the non exsiting sibling share!! Who mentioned earlier about boot overalls and that GUN..
ok thanks people feel better now!!

 

[Y33]

Try living in another country that thinks foreigners can't speak their language. I have stood in some shops for 10-15 minutes before someone will attempt to take my order or ask what I want. Most of the time I want to do something official they always want to know where the better half is too confirm it is okay. The better half will often just ignore them until they speak to me.

 

[Piston Broke]

It happens to everybody!
It's just that women keep whinging about every single incident for years, and form associations about it.
That's life, get used to it.

 

[Xenia]

I thought the question was "do you patronise men when you talk to them about business or investing"

I was going to answer "oh oh, maybe, feel a bit guilty here, should make a conscious effort not to...."

Do I ever feel patronised?
NO!

From time to time we have to deal with some unreasonable and disrespectful people in business both men and women. I like to choose who I work with, I believe in abundance and just refuse to work with disrespectful and disloyal people in life.

When you get rid of the nasty ones you make more room for nicer people to come through and most people are!

 

[tourist]

As an older female, in the past I have been extremely frustrated by attitudes, particularly in banks, but these days I don’t see it too often. Real estate agents normally read the situation quickly and talk money to me and show hubby the shed. Accountants and bank staff are normally ok but then I wouldn’t hang around too long if they were patronising.

Work is a different matter though and it isn’t as easy to change jobs. I have often had to put up with patronising men mainly from management or IT areas. I am, however, patient and persistent and I would eventually get what I needed from them and I wouldn’t feel at all guilty if I sometimes had evil thoughts and wished they would fall off their chair and break a leg. The patronising person is underestimating the person they are working with and I admit have sometimes used this to my advantage.

Now that we are older and don’t dress up too much I find we are both often ignored in shops. Last week we walked around DJs and we had to almost grab a young salesman by the scruff of the neck to get his attention to make a purchase. I like to make them work a bit harder when they do this and we changed our mind a couple of times and dithered just because we could.

 

[wylie]

I like to make them work a bit harder when they do this and we changed our mind a couple of times and dithered just because we could.

That's funny . He was probably seething inside thinking you are a dithering old couple, while you were having a laugh inside at being able to do it .

I found at around 40 I started to disappear in the shops. The only consolation I suppose is that the 20 year old serving will be 40 one day .

I find no problems with REAs, but I know most of the local ones so they know that I do the looking, and phone hubby to say "please sign the contract that will be faxed through in a minute or two".

The worst was when I was about 40 and a 45 year old woman would not arrange for someone to come out to measure up for a carpet unless my husband would be home as well. Before that, I asked the price of a very expensive sisal and she said "Oh, I don't think you could afford that one". I was dressed reasonably well and had three kids with me. Before she even acknowledged my presence in the store, she was serving someone else. Instead of excusing herself and saying to me "I will be with you as soon as I can" she totally ignored me.

After about five minutes of looking about while I waited for her to even make eye contact, I thought "enough is enough" and let my kids climb all over her sample stands. She noticed that .