A whinge about excess water usage!!!!

[Spectre]

Wylie

Just as a query, have you turned off the taps and the running water inside the house and then gone to check the meter outside if its still running?

If it is then you might have a leak somewhere along the line...?

And I share your thoughts. I heard somewhere along the line that with the big unit blocks the consumption cant be measured per unit and the govt cant enforce anything as it is the building that is metered not the individual units.

Meanwhile, I've just lost the 6th palm tree out front and have to get a backhoe in to tear out the front garden and the old roots.

But at the end, you get that... being a drought.

 

[Ausprop]

Ausprop, here in WA our tennants have, and always will pay for excess water usage. Its written into the lease. After one tenant didnt pay the bill and we copped the interest, we now have the PM pay the account and then the tenant is billed. It works well for us.

A few years ago l did question the water usage allowance for households [WA] and l was told that the usage allowance was set many years ago.
It really does not allow for the apliances of todays house hold.
There would be very very few households who would not have to pay excess water.
But we all have to do our bit.
cheers yadreamin

Yadreamin - check your bills mate, they don't give you nuthin for free no more! been like that for some years I think.


Boatboy - I think you can only do that at the end of the tenancy? This place was sold so the bond was just retained as is.

 

[BoatBoy]

Yadreamin - check your bills mate, they don't give you nuthin for free no more! been like that for some years I think.


Boatboy - I think you can only do that at the end of the tenancy? This place was sold so the bond was just retained as is.

Absolutely correct, but at least you get the $$$ back.

Better late than never.

BB

 

[BoatBoy]

From the RTA QLD web site

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/faq_during_a_tenancy.cfm?item=74.00



FAQ - During a Tenancy
Return to FAQ list

What are lessor's obligations with regard to water?



Lessors have always been responsible for paying for water used on the premises. Before changes were made to the Act in 1998 lessors could ask the tenant to pay for excess water. The changes to the Act did not substantially change this position. The changes clarified that the lessor is responsible for a reasonable amount of water used on the premises and require the tenant to pay for water used above that amount if the premises are individually metered.

The changes to the Act were necessary due to the introduction by local councils of different water charging methods. Water charges have traditionally been incorporated into the rates paid by the owner of the premises and have been recovered by lessors in the rent payable by the tenant. Therefore, unlike other utilities, there is no direct billing relationship between the council and the tenant.

In a five-unit complex can the lessor split the water bill five ways?

No. The Act says that the lessor may only pass on some of the water charges if the premises are separately metered.


With all our IP's we pay the first 365 kiloliters, any additional payed by tenant.

This is in a 2005 T/A, so thing's may be Different again now.

BB

 

[yadreamin]

Sorry my mistake Ausprop, l should have said the Tenant did not pay the account on time so we copped the interest. But the Tenant did pay eventually.
cheers yadreamin

 

[Ausprop]

yes a complete transfer of responsibility from the user to the land owner! surprising they dont do the same with phone, power and gas. imagine how much lost revenue these utilities could pick up if they pinged the owners for all this stuff.

 

[Glenn]

What happens in the other states in regards to water charges?

In Melbourne water rates are based partly on property value and partly on water usuage.

In Hobart there is just one gigantic bill that covers council rates, water etc.

In Launceston excess water is charged for separately and we pass this onto our resi tenants.

What is the deal in the rest of Australia?

Hi GoAnna,

In WA, there is a section on the lease form that allows the landlord to state an amount, if any that he/she is willing to contribute to the water cost during the tenancy.

Water usage bills for tenanted properties still are in the name of the property owner.

What we do is communicate the fact at the time of writing the lease that we will pay for all water charges during the tenancy and then recover the tenant portion of the costs at the end of the tenancy. This is usually included in a letter when either responding to the tenant giving us 21 days notice that they wish to leave the property or us giving us 60 days notice that we wish them to vacate.

Writing leases is one time when I ensure communication is very thorough and very direct. I do this away from my wife and kids, away from the tenant's work place, away from the tenant's family in a quiet place....I make lots of eye contact and ensure that the following points are understood.

1. Payment of rent at the times specified by the lease agrrement is the most important part of the agreement between tenant and landlord.

2. Communication between tenant and landlord should be immediate if there is an issue that either party wishes to discuss.

3. Neighours have the right to peaceful enjoyment of their home and are friends of the landlord.

4. Maintenance issues will be responded to very quickly.

5. 5% of the water cost will be paid by the landlord in liue of maintaing any gardens. All water costs will be paid by the landlord during the tenancy with the tenant's share deducted from the bond at the end of the tenancy.

I write my leases with only 1 person's name on them as the lease holder...having more than one allows them to attempt to defer responsibility to someone else.

Good hunting

Glenn

 

[Dazz]

I make lots of eye contact and ensure that the following points are understood.

1. Payment of rent at the times specified by the lease agrrement is the most important part of the agreement between tenant and landlord.

.......

5. All water costs will be paid by the landlord during the tenancy with the tenant's share deducted from the bond at the end of the tenancy.

In theory sounds great Glenn, especially if the tenant plays the game as per your rules.....but what if they don't ?? What happens if they nod their heads, duly obey your rules and make all the right noises at the start, and they fully understand your expectations that you've laid down....but then.....once they are in, they decide to ignore you and start playing by their rules ??

You've only been able to extract a max of 4 weeks bond (limited by legislation) and a max of two weeks in advance (limited by legislation).

The place is rented for an average $ 300 per week, and so the Govt Dept keeps $ 1,200 to call upon.....in theory....if the tenant agrees to sign the release form.


In reality, it may turn out you've been unlucky, and they decide to play the game by their rules instead of yours, things start looking pretty grim.

They refuse to pay rent, and drag proceedings out, ignoring all written communications, for a good 4 months, before being physically evicted by the bailiff....after you finally win judgement at the tribunal.

When you finally get possession back, you realise they have done $ 13,000 worth of damage to the house, and just for giggles they left the 5 water taps in the house running full bore on for the past 3 weeks prior to eviction.

The 4 week bond is looking pretty inconsequential at this stage, and you still haven't got 100% guaranteed access to that yet.

I'm sure Landlord's insurance will cover the lot and you'll be not a penny poorer for it.


Anyway, in theory your plan, like so many others, sounds good - if they play by the rules.

 

[wylie]

Hi Glen.

I think your plan is good, and pretty much how we operate, but one thing I do differently is make sure every person living in the house is on the lease because if the person on the lease moves out, you have one or more people living in your house you have no legal hold over them, no name on a lease.

We actually had this happen last year, where two young men leased a house from us. They invited a third in who the knew from they gym. The original two were great, but the third chap was home all day and just caused a few loud music issues, and his girlfriend was there all the time, and speeding in the street issues. The police were notified and because the original two were nice young men, I suggested they break the lease, that I would not penalise them for doing so, and that they didn't want to be tarnished in the eyes of the police because they made a bad choice of a flatmate.

RTA backed us up in that they had actually breached the lease, but not knowing the third chap, we didn't want to cause friction where it was not needed, so didn't play the breach card (which would have seen them out in two to three weeks anyway). Doing it the way we did, allowed them to find another house, and they were very grateful.

They all three moved the same day, third chap went elsewhere, original two to a new place locally, but if that third chap decided to dig his heels in and not move, we had no contract with him.

All was okay but it could have gotten tricky because with him there, but not on a lease, it would have made it harder to get him out.

Wylie

 

[Dazz]

You come across in not always the most desirable manner.

Timmy - I have no wish to "come across in a desirable manner".

All we ask is that you tone down the (you're going to be offended by me saying this, but I can't think of a better word) arrogance.

Timmy - I'm not offended by your comments. As I pointed out to you months ago, sticks and stones mate. Your words don't offend me at all....and never will.

Have a pleasant Sunday.

 

[Glenn]

In theory sounds great Glenn, especially if the tenant plays the game as per your rules.....but what if they don't ?? What happens if they nod their heads, duly obey your rules and make all the right noises at the start, and they fully understand your expectations that you've laid down....but then.....once they are in, they decide to ignore you and start playing by their rules ??

You've only been able to extract a max of 4 weeks bond (limited by legislation) and a max of two weeks in advance (limited by legislation).

The place is rented for an average $ 300 per week, and so the Govt Dept keeps $ 1,200 to call upon.....in theory....if the tenant agrees to sign the release form.


In reality, it may turn out you've been unlucky, and they decide to play the game by their rules instead of yours, things start looking pretty grim.

They refuse to pay rent, and drag proceedings out, ignoring all written communications, for a good 4 months, before being physically evicted by the bailiff....after you finally win judgement at the tribunal.

When you finally get possession back, you realise they have done $ 13,000 worth of damage to the house, and just for giggles they left the 5 water taps in the house running full bore on for the past 3 weeks prior to eviction.

The 4 week bond is looking pretty inconsequential at this stage, and you still haven't got 100% guaranteed access to that yet.

I'm sure Landlord's insurance will cover the lot and you'll be not a penny poorer for it.


Anyway, in theory your plan, like so many others, sounds good - if they play by the rules.

G'day Dazzling,

I have been lookin' 'em in the eye for 10 years now and have collected every cent of rent that was due under my lease agreements. No bond has had more than $100 kept for damage to the premesis...this includes a 2 year period when 2 properties were let fully furnished to backpackers on a short term basis. Once, for 2 and a half years I lived in Sydney and had 3 rentals in Perth that I managed myself...the phone and internet are wonderful things!

A few things that I have learnt over the years about managing my own rental properties:

1. Intiution and gut feeling are wonderful screening tools

2. I have never read a bad rental reference...they are not worth the paper they are written on

3. Be prepared to concede ground on small things when your properties are increasing in value by more than you make from your day job

4. I have never met a landlord who became rich by ripping off tenants for their bond....give most of it back and get on with the business of gettin rich by holding the land under your houses

Cheers

Glenn

 

[Dazz]

Great stuff Glenn. Some good points there. Your screening processes must be robust. Aye, holding the land underneath is where it's at, no doubt. Good luck with it.

 

[Glenn]

Your screening processes must be robust.

Hi Dazzling,

My screening process is not technically robust and I have had some tenants not wish to fulfil their contractual obligations. I have learnt that getting angry with tenants rarely achieves anything when this happens...in this situation I communicate calmly and thoroughly, asking them questions like:

"what kind of relationship do you wish to have with me for the rest of the tenancy?"

"what sort of example do you wish to set for yourself for your life?

"is this the type of behaviour that you wish your children to emulate?"

"Do you want me to respect you?"

and my favourite....."I view the non-payment of rent as theft from my family"

Cheers

Glenn

 

[Joe D]

and my favourite....."I view the non-payment of rent as theft from my family"

Love that quote Glenn!

It reminds me of another one that can be used when negotiating a pay rise in your job ............................."I would be stealing from my family if I was to accept that (low) offer"

Cheers

 

[Ausprop]

update on my water usage situation - tenants just sent a short note to PM saying they wont be paying for excessive water usage sseing as the the retic was broken and was spewing water out on half of the verge. What they didnt mention was, that when the retic broke they didnt bother to tell anyone, flicked it off at the switch in the middle of summer, then when I wished to sell the lawn was nice and dead! I wonder if they would care to chip in for the lower selling price achieved?

I think they are just dark that I wouldn't chuck in a free alarm system prior to sale.

 

[Ausprop]

actually being offside with tenants really isnt good. my mate had an issue with water usage at a property so to get him back they ran a hose to the neighbours property and clocked up several grand in water use and did a runner!! there was of course the obligatory trash the joint and leave it in a state... almost cliche nowadays.