Accounting Fees - what should I expect to pay
- Thread starter Humphrey
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How deep is your pocket, or how much a greedy accountant can get away with. I found there is such big variation, not easy to find a fantastic accountant charges reasonable fees (by my standard) though. Those greedy ones will say you get what you pay.
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Many times the money you pay doesn't reflect the quality of the service. I now have a fantastic accountant and her fees are very reasonable. I used to pay $3500 for a trust, PAYE returns for my wife and I, and the service and standard were not half as good. I also have a fantastic solicitor, her fees are also very reasonable, compared to the solicitor who charged me by the minute.
I assume that's a joke about H&R block! you get what you pay for and rather than looking at how much you pay your accountant - look at how much they get you back. Better to pay them $200 per hour to get you back $10k than $50 p/h to get back $5k.
Sorry I'm not being very specific on rates etc but it really does vary. Find an accountant that understands IPs.
Also do your own research and don't assume your accountant knows everything.
Sorry I'm not being very specific on rates etc but it really does vary. Find an accountant that understands IPs.
Also do your own research and don't assume your accountant knows everything.
Why is an accountant who charges (what you consider high) greedy? What you think is high is probably cheap for someone else. It really annoys me when people like yourself expect to get good or excellent advice for relatively little.
Legislation is continuously changing and accountants and lawyers need to keep up. It's not like they walk out of University at 22 and never have to study anything ever again. It costs money to do all of this.
You point fingers and call people 'greedy' but it is people like yourself who expect something for nothing (or very little) that are greedy. Here's a newsflash for you buddy - accountants and other professionals are not charities. Someone has to pay for that education. Considering that YOU are the one that benefits from it, why shouldn't it be you that pays for it.
You don't like that? Fine. Go and see some rinky dink bloke in the suburbs who doesn't know squat and see what happens if the ATO coming knocking on your door one day.
Thats a very open question Ethann!
How much you should pay depends on what kind of service you are expecting to get.
Compare your question to ....... "how much should you pay for a meal in Sydney?" You can go to McDonalds and pay $5 but I wouldn't call that a meal.
Just like you can go to a cheap accountant and pay $150 an hour, but I wouldn't call that advice.
It all comes down to what you call "decent service"
Anyone that is good at their job will charge accordingly. It doesnt matter if they are an accountant, a boilermeker or a professional athlete. Its got nothing to do with greed, its called demand and supply.
How much you should pay depends on what kind of service you are expecting to get.
Compare your question to ....... "how much should you pay for a meal in Sydney?" You can go to McDonalds and pay $5 but I wouldn't call that a meal.
Just like you can go to a cheap accountant and pay $150 an hour, but I wouldn't call that advice.
It all comes down to what you call "decent service"
Anyone that is good at their job will charge accordingly. It doesnt matter if they are an accountant, a boilermeker or a professional athlete. Its got nothing to do with greed, its called demand and supply.
Interesting question and unfortunately not a simple answer. I've just sold out of a large practice as many are aware and now working for myself. The biggest issue for accountants (and a lot of professionals) are recoupment of costs and then making a profit.
For the smaller person, like myself now, I can charge a lower rate per hour because my overheads are lower. I've got more qualifications in tax than most accountants and as far as value for money goes I think my clients are getting a good deal. However on the converse side it means I am limited as to who I can take on and do work for. Sure I could hire new staff, etc but then we get to the real issue for those that do. Recoupment of costs and making a profit. For a larger firm employing an accountant with 3 years + experience will cost at least $90k plus super (well in Sydney anyway). Then you have the rent, training, etc etc all on top. That is why you end up getting charged $300 per hour plus. Because otherwise the firm doesn't make a profit.
Now the challenge then is finding a smaller practice with a well qualified accountant in charge. If you do the service will be just as good (sometimes better), advice competent and fees cheaper. On the converse side if you get too big then that person may have to let you go because of time constraints. Similarly those sort of people can be in high demand because you get the best of both worlds but then the doors close quickly.
Anyway that's my thoughts from having been involved in a larger practice and now a small one (very small one haha). The supply vs demand is very real and I have seen some very bad advice from firms charging at the cheaper end. On the converse I have also seen some bad advice from firms charging over $300 per hour and very poor customer service.
Do your research. Find an accountant that isn't too big with high overheads, be fair to them in their time (not fair to be charged a cheaper fee and then bombard them with emails every week and expect that advice to be for free) and stick with them if you have a good relationship.
Looking forward to other people's thoughts.
For the smaller person, like myself now, I can charge a lower rate per hour because my overheads are lower. I've got more qualifications in tax than most accountants and as far as value for money goes I think my clients are getting a good deal. However on the converse side it means I am limited as to who I can take on and do work for. Sure I could hire new staff, etc but then we get to the real issue for those that do. Recoupment of costs and making a profit. For a larger firm employing an accountant with 3 years + experience will cost at least $90k plus super (well in Sydney anyway). Then you have the rent, training, etc etc all on top. That is why you end up getting charged $300 per hour plus. Because otherwise the firm doesn't make a profit.
Now the challenge then is finding a smaller practice with a well qualified accountant in charge. If you do the service will be just as good (sometimes better), advice competent and fees cheaper. On the converse side if you get too big then that person may have to let you go because of time constraints. Similarly those sort of people can be in high demand because you get the best of both worlds but then the doors close quickly.
Anyway that's my thoughts from having been involved in a larger practice and now a small one (very small one haha). The supply vs demand is very real and I have seen some very bad advice from firms charging at the cheaper end. On the converse I have also seen some bad advice from firms charging over $300 per hour and very poor customer service.
Do your research. Find an accountant that isn't too big with high overheads, be fair to them in their time (not fair to be charged a cheaper fee and then bombard them with emails every week and expect that advice to be for free) and stick with them if you have a good relationship.
Looking forward to other people's thoughts.
Thanks for all the replies. I realise that I asked a fairly general question and that accounting is a broad topic with different levels of skill and expertise. Perhaps I could have asked what people consider a low rate or a high rate. Based on the feedback so far it seems like a rate of $100/hour would be considered cheap, $200/hour middle of the road and $300+ expensive (of course some specialised advice is expensive by it's nature).
Any comments?
Any comments?
Ethann
Given you are in Sydney that is pretty spot on
Given you are in Sydney that is pretty spot on
That's great advice Mike. Very sensible and I'm sure if you pitch the same honest advice to your clients, you'll have them lining up for miles.
On the whole, I believe people aren't after freebies but the do want to know the advice they are getting is current and reasonable.
Good luck with your business.
Don't call me buddy cause I am not.
"greedy" was probably a wrong choice of word, what else in life annoys Mark Laszczuk of the world, don't PI double 5 over it, lighten up and chill out, sunshine.
fyi now I paid less for 2 yrs tax returns including a trust (I prepare everything the accountant only has to review), vs the $3500 per year in the past, excellent services, no mistakes, and I get more back in tax refund.
You can pay through the nose if you have money to burn, not me. I shop for best value for my money.
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Some good points on the move.
Nothing wrong with doing your own returns. Visit the ATO website, download the latest. Ring the ATO (diarise their name , date etc). Befriend an accountant if you have to. Buy the latest Master Tax Guide.
Request private binding rulings - the busier you keep the ATO the less resources they have for audit
Nothing wrong with doing your own returns. Visit the ATO website, download the latest. Ring the ATO (diarise their name , date etc). Befriend an accountant if you have to. Buy the latest Master Tax Guide.
Request private binding rulings - the busier you keep the ATO the less resources they have for audit
Don't agree....I use one of the so called Rinky Dink accountant in the suburbs.
Ultimately, it comes down to how well they managed their overheads. Having worked for a very large accounting firm....you get much better quality and service off a seasoned suburban accountant rather than a large firm who employees kids who know very little who they charge out at $350/hr plus.
I pay aqbout $600 pa for my tax affairs....she has some investment properties herself...she does not know everything but she is all i need. I am on top of most things.
Why would I want to go to so called top accountant who is going to fob me to some kid???
Also.....no offence....but I have yet to meet a Financial Planner who has added value to me. They all want to sell me a rather generic financial plan for $1500-$3000. Mostly they recommend Managed Funds who have equally imcompetent and overpaid Fund Managers.
As for the ATO coming knocking....keep it above board....pay your fair share of tax and all is okay. I had a friend who got involved in some tax minimisation schemes marketed by a Financial Planner from a reputable firm. Last I heard he had to sell his house to pay the deductions back and the interest.
Ultimately, it comes down to how well they managed their overheads. Having worked for a very large accounting firm....you get much better quality and service off a seasoned suburban accountant rather than a large firm who employees kids who know very little who they charge out at $350/hr plus.
I pay aqbout $600 pa for my tax affairs....she has some investment properties herself...she does not know everything but she is all i need. I am on top of most things.
Why would I want to go to so called top accountant who is going to fob me to some kid???
Also.....no offence....but I have yet to meet a Financial Planner who has added value to me. They all want to sell me a rather generic financial plan for $1500-$3000. Mostly they recommend Managed Funds who have equally imcompetent and overpaid Fund Managers.
As for the ATO coming knocking....keep it above board....pay your fair share of tax and all is okay. I had a friend who got involved in some tax minimisation schemes marketed by a Financial Planner from a reputable firm. Last I heard he had to sell his house to pay the deductions back and the interest.
Well after numerous accountants, I finally found a good one!
And she costs me around $300 per year.
I have the occasional email query throughout the year (no charge) and she just charges me once at tax time after I do most of the work in terms of what receipts are for which property etc etc.
I basically do all the general numbers for the year, and she checks them and takes care of everything else like depreciation amounts and so on.
And she costs me around $300 per year.
I have the occasional email query throughout the year (no charge) and she just charges me once at tax time after I do most of the work in terms of what receipts are for which property etc etc.
I basically do all the general numbers for the year, and she checks them and takes care of everything else like depreciation amounts and so on.
I have gone through a few accountants and now have one I'm happy with.
One simple piece of advice from this accountant has saved tens of thousands of dollars. So I'm happy. I'm not actually sure what they charge in comparison to others, but I'm am way ahead.
We do have two businesses, two private tax returns and an SMSF.
One simple piece of advice from this accountant has saved tens of thousands of dollars. So I'm happy. I'm not actually sure what they charge in comparison to others, but I'm am way ahead.
We do have two businesses, two private tax returns and an SMSF.
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