Advice for some heavily borrowed 25 y/o's?

Hi All,

I've not really posted about my personal situation before - and have focused on dishing out my $0.02 to others :). Now seeking some thoughts...

Here's our position:

My partner and I are both 25, and have a combined income of $127K before tax and we have:

1. IP - St George IO loan of $292K - paid $292K 3 years ago, probably worth about $340K now - waiting on a valuation to come through to hopefully capture some equity here.


2. PPOR - Have just had this valued at $600K, have upped NAB/homeside IO loan from $225K to $480K, bringing it to 80% of recent val to avoid LMI.

The only real equity we have is on the IP, as we actually owe $650K on my PPOR (the other $170K is owed to my parents), the bank doesn't know about this. We disagree with the recent val, (duh) - we are mid painting, have no landscaping etc, and it looked pretty crap when they came through. We are confident that we can sell it for $650K if we need to, and once finished it should value at that mark or above.

We have made bad decisions that contributed to not much (if any) profit on the PPOR reno, however we also have a self contained area of the house with two boarders bringing in $360/week - so we have been living in a very nice house for 2 years, quite cheaply. Factoring this in, we are ok with selling it and breaking even. It would work out cheaper than renting for that time.


So, how long before we can re-value the PPOR and hopefully get it increased. Will a bank consider a new valuation 2-3 months after the last one? Obviously the house will have changed and therefore be worth more, but is there an exclusionary period on valuations?

Next bit is that we made a verbal offer on an IP today (yet to be accepted, but plausible). It would be our dream PPOR in a few years, due to size, position, street etc. We LOVE the house.

The offer we made was $700K. This means we would need a deposit of $140K to avoid LMI, which we don't have. We could potentially borrow this money from family, but only very short term. The new house would definitely value at contract price based on land val, and is extremely run down.

We figure we can jump in, rip out carpets, paint, rent it out and get it valued again almost straight away. We think the value will jump, once the valuer considers the work done since the previous valuation - but how plausible is this idea? I know we could add 100K in 'market' value with elbow grease in a very short, busy window, but what about valuer's value?

In short, we will need to beg for more money from family to scrape together a deposit to keep us under 80% across the board - and I would like to be able to pay them back within 6 months - ideally 3 months.

How much distance do we need to put between settlement and a new valuation before we can break that glass ceiling of 'contract price'?

Any thoughts?

Matt
 
Why are you avoiding LMI if it is able to get you what you want? You can do it on the IP as the LMI would be a lot cheaper for the smaller sized loan.
 
matty,

My bank allows no less than three months between valuations so I'd say that time may vary between lenders.

Your eagerness is a great characteristic for an investor to have but you have to be careful that it isn't your undoing. Every book says the naysayers will lose while the rich take chances and profit but even that plan seems a little risky for me - and I am a huge risk taker.

All it requires is for the valuer to have a bad day, you or your partner to suffer a completely accidental but expensive injury, a crappy selling agent, slow property market, inability to do the work in your proposed timeframe, budget blowout once your back's against the wall, or some other nothing incident for you to miss an interest payment and have people starting to peer in your direction. Then you have the family borrowing to contend with however access to capital is what investors need so perhaps it's all falling into place for you.

Perhaps I'm getting off topic now but my advice would be to stay within your means, as very improbable events can occur at extremely inopportune times. If you're set on selling your PPOR, maybe do that before buying property #3.

If you decide to go ahead with it, the best piece of advice I can give is to request, from the bank, for a different valuer to do the second valuation, once you've finished the reno, as the first one may just add an estimate of your costs onto their original valuation.

Keep us updated on how it goes.
 
You are 25 years old and married, I reckon it is about time to stand on your own feet and, no matter how generous your family, not rely on them to finance borrowing beyond your means. "Begging" from family should not be part of your financial plans.
Marg
 
Banks usually don't like to revalue inside of 3-6months.

But if you have done extensive renovations that's reason to request a re-val. I have heard of some banks charging for the valuation in this case.

You need to be armed with some compareable sales come valuation time, it's all good saying this is what it would sell for... but you need to be able show properties which have actually SOLD and are COMPAREABLE.

In some cases you will find the 2nd valuation for the renovation after the purchase will go back to the same original value... When this happens I've found the valuation to be on the conservative side.... Say buy for $500k valuer knows you have only spent $20k so only increase the valuation by a similar amount, when what you have spent is irrelivant, it's all the compareable. When this happens it's time to request a different valuer, or bank :)
 
You are 25 years old and married, I reckon it is about time to stand on your own feet and, no matter how generous your family, not rely on them to finance borrowing beyond your means. "Begging" from family should not be part of your financial plans.
Marg

;) very well said
 
You are 25 years old and married, I reckon it is about time to stand on your own feet and, no matter how generous your family, not rely on them to finance borrowing beyond your means. "Begging" from family should not be part of your financial plans.
Marg

Hi Marg, whilst I appreciate your candour, it's not the type of constructive strategy feedback I was looking for.

For what it's worth, any money that we borrow from 'family' is actually borrowed from a family trust, looked after by my mum and uncle. They are very generous and have lent us money to help us better our financial position.

Any money loaned to us from the trust is done so on commercial terms, and the trust is currently earning 6%pa on its lend to us. They have been happy to lend, as they know the market and know that what we are trying to do is in reality low-risk.

The only reason I'm concerned with refinancing to pay the trust back quickly is to ensure that other family members are able to access the same 'leg up' that I have been fortunate to have. The trust is finite, and I don't want to hog the available funds indefinitely, so I was looking for opinions on how to deal with the lenders and valuers to get maximum dollars with minimum fuss.

Matt
 
Matt

Out side what others have said . You're much further ahead than most 25 year olds , so well done.

I wouldn't be worried about LMI . IF 90 % with LMI gets you over the line go for that .

Some families are more supportive than others . We've borrowed money off our parents , we've lent money to our kids and if it helps them get ahead , I have no problems with that . What I do have a problem with is kids who think they are entitled to things without putting in any effort.

Cliff
 
Couple of things

1. You say you have fallen in love with the property you put an offer in but I assume your buying as an Investment home. There is an issue here.

2. What is your cash flow like? I.e. do you have enough to cover everything?

3. Selling to breakeven is never good because your will most likely loose if it isn't a sellers market.

4. Sounds like you are doing reno's to build value. Which is great however, if you are emotionally tied to the house this can affect the real value. I.e. the actual street value of the renovated house vs your perceived value of the renovated house to you.

I would suggest going back to the drawing board and take some time out. Work out what your goals are and build a plan to help you get there. As others have told me running before you can walk will end up with you falling over.

Hope that helps :)
 
Hi Sean,

We are buying the house as a PPOR. We plan on living there long term. The would consider renting it out up front if it put us in a better position to borrow, however the goal is to be moved in within 18 months. We?ll be excited to get a deal signed now, even if we can?t make it our dream house straight away, as it?s a long term keeper.

20 years living a few hundred metres away from this house, and 5 years in real estate tells me that this new place is right for us. If we were looking at it for investment only, we wouldn?t be emotionally involved.

We have the cashflow to support all our loans, my issue is that I want my loans at the bank, and not on the family trust books.

We will probably end up selling our current home, and I anticipate a small profit of maybe up to $50K. Certainly not a profit that reflects the amount of time and energy we put into it, but a necessary compromise if it means we can get into the new place and avoid $50K in mortgage insurance.

Matt
 
Come back to the thread to update us when you revalue etc.

I hope you get the sums you are after & maybe add some before and after pics.
 
You are 25 years old and married, I reckon it is about time to stand on your own feet and, no matter how generous your family, not rely on them to finance borrowing beyond your means. "Begging" from family should not be part of your financial plans.
Marg

Well said.

Live within your means.
 
Well said.

Live within your means.

What do you mean 'live within your means'?

I think you might just be saying it because it sounds like it should be good advice. Almost all of the posters here rely on borrowed money to get ahead - is that within their means?

Our means are sufficient to maintain our loans in the above situation. I don't understand the push-back from some people on these forums.

My question was in relation to the bank's view of our situation. My partner and I are very stable, insured, definitely not having any surprise children etc. Lenders do not always understand that we are much lower risk than other 25 year old couples, and I was looking for thoughts on strategies to get past this stumbling block.

Matt
 
Order multiple vals

Hi Matty,

If your issue is equity and not servicing, then try ordering multiple up front valuations from different lenders, and look at switching your loans over to the lenders that give the most favourable valuations. The fastest way to do this would be through a mortgage broker as we've got the ability to request these up front prior to you lodging an application.
Failing that, top up each of your loan to 90%, cop a little bit of mortgage insurance but at least get your deposit together.
Finally, don't forget about stamp duty which is another $35-$40k on top.

good luck!

nath
 
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