Advise Needed: What to do when your partner looses the Sleep at Night Factor
- Thread starter always_learning
- Start date
Hi I am back from a short family holiday to the souther area of Japan Kagoshima
Note the mountain in the background...well its not a mountain, its a smoking volcano, note also that people build houses on the side it of it... 1988 was the last time it rerupted.
I read thru twice each of the responses. To clarify I dont think Mrs AL is anti-investing, just anti-debt. Did I read a post saying that a certain accountant on this forum, buys IPs one IP at a time and pays them off 100% before the next...well Mrs AL would agree with this 100%. Investing OK, doing it with finance is bad.
I like to see debt in the way a bank does, a bank would see debt as good ( depositors money is debt the bank must repay) if you are putting the debt towards higher yeilding activities (ie bank lends it to others at a margin). I think borrow at 6% and generate 12+% Internal Rate of Return ( capital growth+rental income) is the most risk free way to Get Rich Slow (IMHO), I dont really care about the period of finance, so long as the finance is manageable and backed by quality assets generating income.
I think Kristine's quote that we should own 1 property 100% debt free would do wonders for Mrs AL's thinking. Currently she says after 12 years of marriage we have even more debt than when we got married (true), naturally I say "Dont worry about the debt...just look at the assets".
Tibor, hits the nail on the head, my wife thinks I have a good job for a stable respected IT company, but this can evaporate faster than you can say "restructure, outsource or bad quarter ", we must look after ourselves lets face it at 36 years old my IT carreer is more than 1/2 way.
Now there is nothing I would like more than sitting down with my wife and having a open free discussion about investing goals and reasons why, safty measures, risk exposure...unfortunately these quickly degenerate into my wife worrying about "When we go bankrupt, after the bank sells all our property will they make me <insert terrible senerio> (sell a kidney, work as a prostitute, make our children pay back the debt, go to jail)?"...does work. Meeting other investors would result I am sure in "Well they are rich and earn good income, but we are poor." Basically I love my wife, I also love the concept investing for a brighter future. However at the end of the day, investing for me is a means to an end...having more time and better time with my family, being a rich investor without my family is not something I could accept.
I relate to what Mitch says, the Mrs Always Learning is busy with 2 kids and me feeling overwhelmed with managing the house kids and expenses paticularly when the day to day expenses consume my salary 100% (but note we do save upfront $2K/month, meaning we sometimes we consume all the remaining salary). My income is not bad, so rather than taking 2 OS holidays a year, my investing activities more or less means taking 1 OS and 1 domestic vacaiton/year and driving a 5 year old Honda Civic rather than buying a new Merc. The Always Learnings princesses are not scrounging thru the garbage bins at McDonalds for 1/2 eaten cheese burgers.
think what Mitch does is best way forward, basically keep my wife basically informed but take her out of the loop as far as active involvement, signing for finance, trustee for the family trust etc. So the AL plan for 2004 will be to take one of the IPs (probably the one owned in joint names) and pay it off 100%, put the certificate of title on our wall in our house somewhere. This will make a big hit to my LOC, but it will leave me will enough funds to keep investing the slow and steady way towards my 10 year goal to retire in 2012 with assets of $5M (2002 dollars) generating at least $250K a year in income.
Thanks again everyone for your advise I look forward to removing the stress of "investing" from our relationship next year.
I read thru twice each of the responses. To clarify I dont think Mrs AL is anti-investing, just anti-debt. Did I read a post saying that a certain accountant on this forum, buys IPs one IP at a time and pays them off 100% before the next...well Mrs AL would agree with this 100%. Investing OK, doing it with finance is bad.
I like to see debt in the way a bank does, a bank would see debt as good ( depositors money is debt the bank must repay) if you are putting the debt towards higher yeilding activities (ie bank lends it to others at a margin). I think borrow at 6% and generate 12+% Internal Rate of Return ( capital growth+rental income) is the most risk free way to Get Rich Slow (IMHO), I dont really care about the period of finance, so long as the finance is manageable and backed by quality assets generating income.
I think Kristine's quote that we should own 1 property 100% debt free would do wonders for Mrs AL's thinking. Currently she says after 12 years of marriage we have even more debt than when we got married (true), naturally I say "Dont worry about the debt...just look at the assets".
Tibor, hits the nail on the head, my wife thinks I have a good job for a stable respected IT company, but this can evaporate faster than you can say "restructure, outsource or bad quarter ", we must look after ourselves lets face it at 36 years old my IT carreer is more than 1/2 way.
Now there is nothing I would like more than sitting down with my wife and having a open free discussion about investing goals and reasons why, safty measures, risk exposure...unfortunately these quickly degenerate into my wife worrying about "When we go bankrupt, after the bank sells all our property will they make me <insert terrible senerio> (sell a kidney, work as a prostitute, make our children pay back the debt, go to jail)?"...does work. Meeting other investors would result I am sure in "Well they are rich and earn good income, but we are poor." Basically I love my wife, I also love the concept investing for a brighter future. However at the end of the day, investing for me is a means to an end...having more time and better time with my family, being a rich investor without my family is not something I could accept.
I relate to what Mitch says, the Mrs Always Learning is busy with 2 kids and me feeling overwhelmed with managing the house kids and expenses paticularly when the day to day expenses consume my salary 100% (but note we do save upfront $2K/month, meaning we sometimes we consume all the remaining salary). My income is not bad, so rather than taking 2 OS holidays a year, my investing activities more or less means taking 1 OS and 1 domestic vacaiton/year and driving a 5 year old Honda Civic rather than buying a new Merc. The Always Learnings princesses are not scrounging thru the garbage bins at McDonalds for 1/2 eaten cheese burgers.
think what Mitch does is best way forward, basically keep my wife basically informed but take her out of the loop as far as active involvement, signing for finance, trustee for the family trust etc. So the AL plan for 2004 will be to take one of the IPs (probably the one owned in joint names) and pay it off 100%, put the certificate of title on our wall in our house somewhere. This will make a big hit to my LOC, but it will leave me will enough funds to keep investing the slow and steady way towards my 10 year goal to retire in 2012 with assets of $5M (2002 dollars) generating at least $250K a year in income.
Thanks again everyone for your advise I look forward to removing the stress of "investing" from our relationship next year.
Always_learning,
It sounds like your wife doesn't understand the 'good debt/bad debt' distinction. A copy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad or a few games of cashflow could do wonders.
I have a strong belief (based on watching the relationships of friends & family) that a marriage where one partner owns the finances and the other is told only what they need to know faces a number of major issues.
Firstly the non-financially aware partner becomes a 'serf' or servant to the other partner. They never feel financially secure or can commit themselves dully to the relationship with their partner - instead fall into a subsidiary role of caring for children/home or working long hours to justify their involvement in the relationship.....Love & the primary purpose of the relationship (companionship of equals) can easily be misplaced.
Secondly in cases of bereavement or disability, if the non-financially aware 'partner' is thrown into a position of having to manage the finances they can easily be swamped & do not have the skills to make the best decisions. Conman prey, bankrupcy bait.....
Finally, respect between partners and the ties which bind them together can easily weaken in a situation where roles become stratified - he manages the money, she's the housekeeper......where does this lead when interests diverge and people grow apart....what happens after the kids leave home?
Also I'd be cautious about the statements you are making about your wife's attitudes. How do you know for certain that putting your wife in contact with other investors or educating her will only make her feel destitute & helpless?
Something said to her by another individual in one of these meetings, or a sentence in a book or something in the gameplay could be that AHA! factor she needs.
This wouldn't be the first time that one partner made assumptions about the other that were totally wrong
Surrounding your family with successful people has a strong possibility of leading your partner to feeling more of a success.
You are rich. You have a great family (I'm sure), a strong career, you are able to save $2K per month - many people don't earn this much!!!!! You own (or at least control) a decent sized and growing asset base backed up by a solid investment plan which will lead you to financial freedom.
If your wife sees herself as poor then there is a significant dissonance between her worldview and the reality of the situation. She definitely needs that financial education to understand how well off she is!!!!
As Jas's sister just said to me 'It not necessarily about trust, but it's natural to be nervous when you don't understand what your partner is doing with the money as it her future too!" (in punkier terms)
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Originally posted by Aceyducey
Always_learning,
It sounds like your wife doesn't understand the 'good debt/bad debt' distinction. A copy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad or a few games of cashflow could do wonders.
She has read the book (in Japanese) but wasnt impressed by it. Whilst we are in Japan super in OZ is not being added to, and I have to contribute 20 years to the pension system of Japan (which is totally bankrupt BTW) before I can get 1cent back.
I have a strong belief (based on watching the relationships of friends & family) that a marriage where one partner owns the finances and the other is told only what they need to know faces a number of major issues.
My marriage is not perfect. We have issues like many/most marriages. What if one partners doesnt WANT to be involved in the little details, finance applications, doing the numbers etc. It is not "dont worry your pretty little head about the man's job", but "let me do the leg work and I will discuss it with you before any major event"
Firstly the non-financially aware partner becomes a 'serf' or servant to the other partner. They never feel financially secure or can commit themselves dully to the relationship with their partner - instead fall into a subsidiary role of caring for children/home or working long hours to justify their involvement in the relationship.....Love & the primary purpose of the relationship (companionship of equals) can easily be misplaced.
Mrs AL is no serf, I think you believe that financial management skills equals wishing to investing in IP. My wife understand finances and has a B.Bs business degree and the japanese equivalent of a accountancy license. She loves the micro stuff, ie writting down day-to-day expenses etc. she is a great saver. She just doenst like debt, unfortunately investing in IP to best effect needs finance.
Secondly in cases of bereavement or disability, if the non-financially aware 'partner' is thrown into a position of having to manage the finances they can easily be swamped & do not have the skills to make the best decisions. Conman prey, bankrupcy bait.....
She would sell all investment properties and return to her parents house, later buy an apartment in Japan, put the rest in the bank and spend it on my 2 daughters education. Ie revert to the standard japanese middleclass plan. I would just hope she would maintain our childrens relationship with my family in OZ.
Finally, respect between partners and the ties which bind them together can easily weaken in a situation where roles become stratified - he manages the money, she's the housekeeper......where does this lead when interests diverge and people grow apart....what happens after the kids leave home?
I would love to say my marriage is all about sharing and caring in all things and that we can talk thru all problems and come to a mutual agreement. But after 12 years there are some areas that best left alone and I would say cannot be "fixed", eg. issues about my mother and my desire not to work until I am 70. So if I say, well since we cannot agree about my "she hates me, she never liked me" mother and investing even after 12 years, so lets just divorce would be totally ignoring all the great things about our marriage. I just accept there are good things and bad things, perfect things and imperfect things in my marriage. I always think it is better to focus on the good, focussing on the bad just makes the bad things seem bigger and the good things seem weaker.
Also I'd be cautious about the statements you are making about your wife's attitudes. How do you know for certain that putting your wife in contact with other investors or educating her will only make her feel destitute & helpless?
Note that in Japan I have yet to meet anyone who wasnt a doctor or dentist earning mega dollars who actually invested. My wife is full of TV stories from japan of "investors" who have lost everything.
Something said to her by another individual in one of these meetings, or a sentence in a book or something in the gameplay could be that AHA! factor she needs.
When we get back to Australia, I will try again I am almost sure it will go like this "Lets go out to meet new people involved in investing, it would be fun to meet new people" my wife would say "I am not interested you go and I will stay home and have a miserable time alone". Naturally a Japanese woman in OZ involved in investment properties successfully would be someone I would really like to introduce to my wife. In japan owning investing property is very abnormal, and after the big bust in the early 90's it has the perception of risk, fear and impending doom.
This wouldn't be the first time that one partner made assumptions about the other that were totally wrong
My wife has a free will and can and does change her mind quite quickly if she wants. It can be quite amazing at times
Surrounding your family with successful people has a strong possibility of leading your partner to feeling more of a success.
After working, school for the kids, shopping, visting relatives very little time remains in our family. All her friends husbands are doctors/dentists or work for presigous japanese companies (and never come home before midnight) I dont.
You are rich.
No, rich to me means financially independant, meaning I would be able to live a reasonable lifestyle based on the income generated out of my investments, not income. I cannot do that yet, but my 10 year plan would if successful allow me to do it
You have a great family (I'm sure), a strong career, you are able to save $2K per month - many people don't earn this much!!!!! You own (or at least control) a decent sized and growing asset base backed up by a solid investment plan which will lead you to financial freedom.
Sounds nicer than it is
If your wife sees herself as poor then there is a significant dissonance between her worldview and the reality of the situation. She definitely needs that financial education to understand how well off she is!!!!
It's hard to keep up with the Tanaka's when he is a doctor earning mega dollars and comes from a rich family and their parents gave them their spare house as the wedding present. So realative to such people we are poor. Also many of our foreign friends are on full expat deals and huge salaries as they are company presidents or VP's a definite step or three up from me.
As Jas's sister just said to me 'It not necessarily about trust, but it's natural to be nervous when you don't understand what your partner is doing with the money as it her future too!" (in punkier terms)
Our finances if restructured have in my opinion would exceeded my wife's view of the good life. Basically we could sell all IP, buy and own outright our own house in Japan or a very nice one in OZ, get a Benz in the driveway and spend all my income on educating the children and nice holidays, whilst I go to work for the next 30 years put away some more savings, she would return to full time employement in 2 years further boosting our income stream. To be honest its not bad, in fact it is a reasonable good plan. My plan ie the goal of financial independance takes some more doing, harder work and lets face it more risk. So reality is that the problem is between what is in my opinion a good plan (debt free middleclass life) and a better plan (true financial independance)
Cheers,
Aceyducey [/B]
Always_learning,
That's a very open post. Thanks for your sharing.
I've been thinking about your post, and I've wondered about it.
I did have some well off unhappy people in mind- see the thread Lucky bugger
Is it worth while for you to seek a compromise strategegy, where you could divest something for a short term gain, while putting off your own goals a little?
I know it's contrary to what has been said in this forum quite often- but if it means that your wife is more comfortable, it may be worth while?
I would not suggest at all selling up and committing yourself to work for the next 30 years. But, hey, I've got a max of 15 years myself, so I've got to go a little harder.
Perhaps the family peace and happiness would be worth one IP for a couple of years?
Sorry, a rather heretical thought for this forum
That's a very open post. Thanks for your sharing.
I've been thinking about your post, and I've wondered about it.
I did have some well off unhappy people in mind- see the thread Lucky bugger
Is it worth while for you to seek a compromise strategegy, where you could divest something for a short term gain, while putting off your own goals a little?
I know it's contrary to what has been said in this forum quite often- but if it means that your wife is more comfortable, it may be worth while?
I would not suggest at all selling up and committing yourself to work for the next 30 years. But, hey, I've got a max of 15 years myself, so I've got to go a little harder.
Perhaps the family peace and happiness would be worth one IP for a couple of years?
Sorry, a rather heretical thought for this forum
geoffw,
Your point is very valid. When I read the original post one of RK's
comment came into my mind, When you an dyour partner do not share teh same risk profile, it makes it much harder to achieve a goal. This makes sense very much to me as one's partner should be the most important part of the TEAM. In any team work it can only succeed easily if the entire team pulls together for a common goal. RK says while it is not impossible to achieve the goals, it is definitely much harder. His wife is a rich person on her own right and she stated when she became financially independent from RK, their relationship has actually strenghened as a result of it. I have to agree with them fully. I am sure there are all sort of couples on this forum, some of them work together for a common goal, in other relationships one has the interest and the drive the other lets him/her the 'knee knocking fear' to held them back and they might even try to influence their partner. Definitely not an easy thing to solve, especially that relationships ar emore important than money, especially good ones. Unfortunately at the same time money (or rather lack of it) is the single cause of most family arguments. Maybe we just want / expect too much from life and can not accept what our elders did. Whatever is the reason, it is not easy, but I also know that I do not wish to work until 65 and then expect a nice lifestyle on the pension. If this is the best I can do, bugger it!
Tibor
Your point is very valid. When I read the original post one of RK's
comment came into my mind, When you an dyour partner do not share teh same risk profile, it makes it much harder to achieve a goal. This makes sense very much to me as one's partner should be the most important part of the TEAM. In any team work it can only succeed easily if the entire team pulls together for a common goal. RK says while it is not impossible to achieve the goals, it is definitely much harder. His wife is a rich person on her own right and she stated when she became financially independent from RK, their relationship has actually strenghened as a result of it. I have to agree with them fully. I am sure there are all sort of couples on this forum, some of them work together for a common goal, in other relationships one has the interest and the drive the other lets him/her the 'knee knocking fear' to held them back and they might even try to influence their partner. Definitely not an easy thing to solve, especially that relationships ar emore important than money, especially good ones. Unfortunately at the same time money (or rather lack of it) is the single cause of most family arguments. Maybe we just want / expect too much from life and can not accept what our elders did. Whatever is the reason, it is not easy, but I also know that I do not wish to work until 65 and then expect a nice lifestyle on the pension. If this is the best I can do, bugger it!
Tibor
Gday Aceyducey,
lm a mechanic with 25 years in the trade.
My wonderful wife cant change a flat.
Is it a flaw in our marrage that l service and maintain our cars while she cant check the oil ?
that example isnt as important as houses but the principle is the same.
She chooses to leave the week to week running of our property business to me as l have the desire .Mrs Mitch is well aware of our position finanacily as l choose to let her manage the books (statements at tax time etc for the accountant ) ,and when it comes to that type of work its best to keep me well away.
Your point about ones untimely demise is very important and in our case my wife would only need to cash in my death cover to clear our debts and our renters would be fully paid off and as l use property managers l dont feel it would be panic stations in this regard
And after the kids leave home ?
Our youngest is 3 1/2 so thats a few years away
Regards Mitch
lm a mechanic with 25 years in the trade.
My wonderful wife cant change a flat.
Is it a flaw in our marrage that l service and maintain our cars while she cant check the oil ?
that example isnt as important as houses but the principle is the same.
She chooses to leave the week to week running of our property business to me as l have the desire .Mrs Mitch is well aware of our position finanacily as l choose to let her manage the books (statements at tax time etc for the accountant ) ,and when it comes to that type of work its best to keep me well away.
Your point about ones untimely demise is very important and in our case my wife would only need to cash in my death cover to clear our debts and our renters would be fully paid off and as l use property managers l dont feel it would be panic stations in this regard
And after the kids leave home ?
Our youngest is 3 1/2 so thats a few years away
Regards Mitch
Finally the moment arrived! I just started to read (already at Chapter 3) RK's sucecss stories. I recently just finished a similar one from JB which was also excellent.
What is interesting that in the preface RK explains quite clearly why his books are not "how to" books. He leaves that for others.
But for those who need that someone tell them "how to", the individual stories doing it, albeit it might need some "customisation".
What is also interesting that people very much using Rich Dad's principles (they also refer to other books and materials), while they are going on their own unique way to achieve their financial goals.
Sure, there will be people who will not like this book either, fine as far as I am concerned it is their loss. Maybe one day the "perfect how to" book will also be written. During that period of time I am enjoying and making the most of this one.
Merry Christmas everyone,
Tibor
What is interesting that in the preface RK explains quite clearly why his books are not "how to" books. He leaves that for others.
But for those who need that someone tell them "how to", the individual stories doing it, albeit it might need some "customisation".
What is also interesting that people very much using Rich Dad's principles (they also refer to other books and materials), while they are going on their own unique way to achieve their financial goals.
Sure, there will be people who will not like this book either, fine as far as I am concerned it is their loss. Maybe one day the "perfect how to" book will also be written. During that period of time I am enjoying and making the most of this one.
Merry Christmas everyone,
Tibor
Hi AL
Stop talking to her about property investing for a while. I know you think about it all the time, but maybe give it a break for a while within the family dicussions.
Let her buy everything she wants (personal stuff) within reason without mentioning the debt for a while. Forget about the debt within the family.
I used to sacrifice stuff for myself like getting a new comp or boosting the turbo
just so that my wife could get anything she liked. Eventually however I did both
My guess is that the debt is starting to affect you somewhat to a lesser degree but it's rubbed off on your wife in a much more severe manner. Start projecting an image that you ARE rich and comfortable. Forget about the POOR talk totally, I DON"T WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN.
From now on you are RICH and HAPPY and the debt DOESN'T bother you one single bit. Stop talking to her about savings, but keep an eye on them yourself QUIETLY
STOP talking to her about your goal to retire in 10 years, but stay focused on it yourself QUIETLY
You have to go into STEALTH mode for a while.
Regards
Investor
Stop talking to her about property investing for a while. I know you think about it all the time, but maybe give it a break for a while within the family dicussions.
Let her buy everything she wants (personal stuff) within reason without mentioning the debt for a while. Forget about the debt within the family.
I used to sacrifice stuff for myself like getting a new comp or boosting the turbo
just so that my wife could get anything she liked. Eventually however I did both
My guess is that the debt is starting to affect you somewhat to a lesser degree but it's rubbed off on your wife in a much more severe manner. Start projecting an image that you ARE rich and comfortable. Forget about the POOR talk totally, I DON"T WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN.
From now on you are RICH and HAPPY and the debt DOESN'T bother you one single bit. Stop talking to her about savings, but keep an eye on them yourself QUIETLY
STOP talking to her about your goal to retire in 10 years, but stay focused on it yourself QUIETLY
You have to go into STEALTH mode for a while.
Regards
Investor
Originally posted by investor
Hi AL
Stop talking to her about property investing for a while. I know you think about it all the time, but maybe give it a break for a while within the family dicussions.
I have !, believe me, dont want any more arguments
Let her buy everything she wants (personal stuff) within reason without mentioning the debt for a while. Forget about the debt within the family.
She half jokingly says "but we are too poor for me to buy, I have got socks with holes in them, my pants are ripped"...bla bla bla
I used to sacrifice stuff for myself like getting a new comp or boosting the turbo
just so that my wife could get anything she liked. Eventually however I did both
My toys are expensive. Nice feeling if it was possible.
My guess is that the debt is starting to affect you somewhat to a lesser degree but it's rubbed off on your wife in a much more severe manner.
Actually the opposite, I do think I try to keep debt where it belongs...in perspective, we have assets and we use finance as a tool to hold those income producing assets. She says "how can we every pay off more 1/2 a million dollars of debt", I am 35 years old and could never pay that off, I say "you dont have to, the tenants will pay it off or if we ever sell we will pay it off, the 1/2 million is backed by well over $1M of assets"..doesnt work, and after a months and months and months of worry now I am concerned, if there was a problem and we did loose money, that would, shall I say be a "big" problem for our marriage.
Start projecting an image that you ARE rich and comfortable. Forget about the POOR talk totally, I DON"T WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN.
If you need to talk with me again please do so thru my legal team...now it's time to check out my new indoor polo stadium.
From now on you are RICH and HAPPY and the debt DOESN'T bother you one single bit. Stop talking to her about savings, but keep an eye on them yourself QUIETLY
We dont have "savings" we have assets, a day-to-day bank account, money for the kids education...thats it! I even sold my shares to finance the current development.
STOP talking to her about your goal to retire in 10 years, but stay focused on it yourself QUIETLY
It is my dream, I tell the forum but few others, I told it to her once...suffice to say it was a mistake, to be honest it is a bit hard for a middle class japanese lady to say her husband "doesnt have a job"... and no way I could tell my goal to parents-in-law, they would think I had gone barking mad!
You have to go into STEALTH mode for a while.
I plan(ed) to invest 500K/year for the next 7 years, then wait 3 and then retire from employment and maybe start a business that I have some passion for. It would be great to trail around behind (like the poop trailing a goldfish) some of the professionals investors on this site. Anyway after the current development is finished, I will regroup, paydown one property 100% free and clear, and move forward.
Regards
Investor
Last edited:
my thoughts
AL,
I'm jealous - I love Kagoshima!! It made me want to get on a plane right away. I have been to japan 6 times, mainly to Kyushu. Sakura-jima was certainly smoking when I was last there. I think our car was covered in about 5cm of dust.
I think many of the problems you face are related to cultural differences. You have yourself - Aussie - mostly obsessed about real estate, and Japanese, with little concept of investing, particularly in property. and there is such a strong concept of maintaining honour, partly thru financial status. and also of being conservative, particularly financially. I think from memory, that Japanese are the most prolific savers in the world. So, it's difficult for you to work within that culture at investing.
I guess I think marraige comes first. So, whatever you need to do to keep that going, should be your priority.
I have a friend who is a property developer, who is very aggressive in his developing, but his wife is very anxious about it all. I think they have a limit, based on exactly what you say - what sort of debt can they have and she can still sleep at night. So, maybe you could decide together what level of debt is OK and work within that to minimise her stress. Perhaps you can review the levels each year or something to see if it's still OK.
I was going to suggest Cashflow, but you've tried that already. I found a lot of Japanese really liked playing Monopoly.
What motivates her - spending, saving, giving. I know we are really motivated by giving... so being able to give away $3000 from the proceeds of a sale of an IP to charity has really motivated us to continue on with our path.
I hope you can work it out together.
Penny
AL,
I'm jealous - I love Kagoshima!! It made me want to get on a plane right away. I have been to japan 6 times, mainly to Kyushu. Sakura-jima was certainly smoking when I was last there. I think our car was covered in about 5cm of dust.
I think many of the problems you face are related to cultural differences. You have yourself - Aussie - mostly obsessed about real estate, and Japanese, with little concept of investing, particularly in property. and there is such a strong concept of maintaining honour, partly thru financial status. and also of being conservative, particularly financially. I think from memory, that Japanese are the most prolific savers in the world. So, it's difficult for you to work within that culture at investing.
I guess I think marraige comes first. So, whatever you need to do to keep that going, should be your priority.
I have a friend who is a property developer, who is very aggressive in his developing, but his wife is very anxious about it all. I think they have a limit, based on exactly what you say - what sort of debt can they have and she can still sleep at night. So, maybe you could decide together what level of debt is OK and work within that to minimise her stress. Perhaps you can review the levels each year or something to see if it's still OK.
I was going to suggest Cashflow, but you've tried that already. I found a lot of Japanese really liked playing Monopoly.
What motivates her - spending, saving, giving. I know we are really motivated by giving... so being able to give away $3000 from the proceeds of a sale of an IP to charity has really motivated us to continue on with our path.
I hope you can work it out together.
Penny
This is probably completely off beam - it's just a gut feeling. I smell fear. It has nothing to do with property per se, it has to do with a sense of control and adequacy. In my experience they commonly have parents whom they loved dearly and those parents worked hard, had paid their house off and retired on the pension, debt free (Depressionitis, I call it). Alternatively, they have parents who were financially extremely successful and are very concerned that if they fail financially they will have "failed" as children in the eyes of their parents. They also often harbour an irrational sense of "pushing their luck". OK, everything is going well but things are too good, we should stop now. We are getting more than we deserve, haven't worked hard enough for what we have - bad karma. It doesn't matter how many numbers you put in front of them, or how rational the argument - it's not about the specifics. It's more fundamental - what are you afraid of. what is the thing you fear most? One of my friends is the son of Holocaust survivors. He is the first person in his family to own his own home. He has an LVR of about 20%, an excellent income but is afraid to borrow to invest in case he "loses his home". He's afraid to dream and it's crippling him. Sometimes they are small-time control freaks and hence debt of any kind is akin to relinquishing control - someone else has a piece of you.
It's taken us two years but he has finally agreed to put some money into some shares and is coming to grips with the fact that he might be able to buy another property. (He could actually buy about $1 million worth but let's go gently into that dark night. Let's teach him first to rage against the dying of the light!)
Of course, your wife will probably say this is complete rubbish and she may be right. But scratch the surface a little, you may be suprised at what is underneath. (Please don't take offence at this.)
It's taken us two years but he has finally agreed to put some money into some shares and is coming to grips with the fact that he might be able to buy another property. (He could actually buy about $1 million worth but let's go gently into that dark night. Let's teach him first to rage against the dying of the light!)
Of course, your wife will probably say this is complete rubbish and she may be right. But scratch the surface a little, you may be suprised at what is underneath. (Please don't take offence at this.)
Maybe not too far off the mark. Not depression, but of course in Japan they where bombed in WWII. Americans cluster bombed Tokyo, bombs that burst in midair spliting into hundreds of little firebomblets, naturally the bomblets couldnt penitrate anything solid like military compounds etc, however absolutely perfect weapon if your goal is to set fire to the little-people's wooden houses and if you are "lucky" causing fire storms and massive loss of life of the helpless cilivians women children the aged etc. And it worked!
As children my wifes parents lost everything, their house, all posessions, everything basically, except the clothes they where wearing. My father-in-law remembers sheltering at the river and watching the dead bodies float down. (the biggest bombing night in May 1945 300,000 died, 1000 times more than a more recent act of terror, 9/11)
Anyway my wife's parents do have a "thing" about loss and possessions. Naturally I have not experienced what they did, clearly they are highly sensitive to loss, money, property, anything really, and highly desire "security". Using the rich dad idea, they are not motivated to do better, they are motivated to be secure (in all things).
My wife I am sure is basically "we are ok, so why push it, why do you want 10 properties? (two is enough and it would be better to sell one of those), why do you want to be a multi-millionaire ?".
