An upcoming granny flat build thread

[menty]

Hi guys, I have an upcoming possible granny flat build at the rear of my investment property and I would like to use this thread as a worklog to track both progress and for everyone to express their opinions and thoughts. Im not sure this is in the right section, so please move it to the appropriate section if necessary.

I have read through many of the granny flat threads on the forum and one of the initial reasons I got this block was that it was large and met the SEPPs for a granny flat build.

Finance
Currently, I have an ANZ loan with a variable rate. I am paying principal and interest . Iv read that ANZ doesn’t really ‘support’ gf builds, so I will be speaking to my mortgage broker about my options there. I do have enough money in my offset account to fund the majority of the build, however I believe it would probably be more worthwhile to borrow as much as I can.

My block
My block of land is quite large, being approximately 708m2. I believe it is approximately 13m wide. As you can see in this bad Google maps photo, it is a long block, with a school next door, and an ‘angled front’ –

Here is a relatively bad photo of the front of the house. As you can see, it is weatherboard. There is a carport on the left of the house and a driveway.

The reason I am posting these photos is for you to see that the block is sort of narrow. I had initial intentions of pathing a concrete or gravel path to the rear where the granny flat was and moving the carport behind or in front of the house. However, I am now not sure if this is a viable option and if it will be worthwhile. This is only an investment property after all. I would definitely install a fence though. Also, is a shed necessary?

Currently, the front house is being rented out at $450/week (this is cheap). Similar houses in the area rent anywhere from $475-500/week. The granny flat could potentially rent from $250-300 per week at a guess. (2162- Sefton)

Pre granny flat suggestions
I have been in contact with Brazen from these very forums on and off over the last few months and am probably now only ready to commit. I have been reading his posts with keen interest, especially this one
http://www.grannyflatapprovals.com.au/news/granny-flat-prices/#comment-160

Just running through his site, I would hazard it costs 90-100K to get a granny flat up and running. Id like to build a 60m2 2 bedroom gf – still unsure whether to include a patio or not. I know for a fact that I want a proper front door and wooden floorboards/tiles though. I also want to maximise the space of the place. What I am unsure of is the extra inclusions, and if it is worthwhile for a tenant. Ill run through my thoughts quickly:

Externals-
Facade: I would like to keep weatherboard cladding in a similar colour to the front house.
Roof: Concrete roof tiles in a similar colour to the front house
Wall height: Is it worth the extra 2.2K to go for high ceilings? It would make the place look bigger though.
TV antenna: necessary? Most people have a TV so I think so. $260

Internals-
Cornices: I think the 100mm cornices will be fine, it doesn’t have to be fancy
Skirting: standard 80mm

Doors-
internal doors: Hollow cores, to keep costs down
Swinging internal doors: i don’t see a point
Glass sliding door: 1.8m standard
I don’t see the option for a front door.

Windows-
Aluminium windows standard.
Vertical blinds are $1650. Not sure if I can get it cheaper?
Bathroom- Now we all know how important a clean bathroom is
Ceramic toilet suite and 900mm glass shower standard.
Tiles can go 2.1m or to the roof for an extra 600$. I have tiled to the roof in the main house, so Im unsure of this.
Also not sure if I should choose the clothes dryer option. Maybe I can pick up some cheap kitchen and bathroom stuff from graysonline

Bedrooms-
I would probably go wood or tiles, with 2 built in robes (as space is at a premium here)

Kitchen:
The kitchen would remain standard, either with a tiled or wooden floor. I would probably make up connections for a dishwasher and have the standard electric oven

Electrical:
I assume most houses would need an AC system now? A reverse cycle one is 1380, so that doesn’t seem too expensive. Would I even be able to get it for cheaper?

All up, this adds to about 95K according to the estimate. I also have a possible builder who actually lives down the road from me, so Ill also get his opinions too.

And one last thing. When do I do valuations and get depreciation schedules made up?

 

[devank]

Finance
Currently, I have an ANZ loan with a variable rate. I am paying principal and interest . Iv read that ANZ doesn’t really ‘support’ gf builds, so I will be speaking to my mortgage broker about my options there. I do have enough money in my offset account to fund the majority of the build, however I believe it would probably be more worthwhile to borrow as much as I can.

I used my offset money to build. Then somehow my ANZ mortgage manager showed that as 'extension' instead of dual occ and increased the value of the property and gave me the money what ever possible. Spent about 100K and got about 50K from the bank at the end.

of narrow. I had initial intentions of pathing a concrete or gravel path to the

All that would cost money

Currently, the front house is being rented out at $450/week (this is cheap). Similar houses in the area rent anywhere from $475-500/week. The granny flat could potentially rent from $250-300 per week at a guess. (2162- Sefton)

My main house was rented for $500.00. After the granny flat was built I reduced that to $480.00. Granny flat is renting for $350.00. So I think you can expect if little more.

Just running through his site, I would hazard it costs 90-100K to get a granny flat up and running.

My turn-key build cost was initially 97K. Actual final cost was $112K.

I know for a fact that I want a proper front door

Wall height: Is it worth the extra 2.2K to go for high ceilings? It would make the place look bigger though.

Would you get extra $3.00 per week because of this?

Vertical blinds are $1650. Not sure if I can get it cheaper?

What is standard then?

Also not sure if I should choose the clothes dryer option.

Why bother? If it breaks then you need to fix them!

The kitchen would remain standard, either with a tiled or wooden floor. I would probably make up connections for a dishwasher and have the standard electric oven

So dishwasher & oven are not included?

I assume most houses would need an AC system now? A reverse cycle one is 1380, so that doesn’t seem too expensive. Would I even be able to get it for cheaper?

You may be able to get it for less.. but I would simple get them to do it so one less thing to worry about.

And one last thing. When do I do valuations and get depreciation schedules made up?

I think it should be fine within the financial year. Once all done, get few photos and write out what brand/model appliances you got and send them to 'depreciator' from here. I finished mine in July.

 

[Blurbman]

Hi Menty,

I am just finishing up our 2br GF at the moment and working on the landscaping but it looks like you have thought most of the issues through well.

We also had our existing loan through ANZ but as with a lot of banks they will only lend 80% for a second dwelling on a property. We had enough money to build it though so we will just get both houses valued at the end and re-draw if necessary.

We have gone for the extra high ceilings and they make a big difference. While it may not equate automatically with extra $, it will make attracting tenants, and keeping tenants easier. It just feels bigger and when you are talking 60sqm, this is important.

As i said, we are getting valuations at the end once things are completed. I talked about the depreciation schedules with Scott from Depreciator on somersoft, and they recommended getting two separate schedules. One for the old house, and one for the new. My existing place was pre-1985 and so they were done on the paper. As it will be a new build for the GF you should have all the prices and so the depreciation report would be done on actual costs. Make sure your builder is happy to provide you with the costs of all the build items so you have the material for the report.

 

[neK]

We have gone for the extra high ceilings and they make a big difference. While it may not equate automatically with extra $, it will make attracting tenants, and keeping tenants easier. It just feels bigger and when you are talking 60sqm, this is important.

I think this sums it up. But every investor has their own opinion. I dont look at the fact the increased ceiling height gets me more rent, but in my opinion it can help reduce the vacancy time of a property because the granny flat doesnt feel like a shoebox, hence making it more attractive.

 

[brazen]

I have been in contact with Brazen from these very forums on and off over the last few months and am probably now only ready to commit. I have been reading his posts with keen interest, especially this one
http://www.grannyflatapprovals.com.a...s/#comment-160

Well I'm glad people are reading my articles
Im NOT the builder. I use a series of trusted builders and that ensures my clients get treated well and priced fairly.

The overall price has to include:
1. Approvals- approx. $5,500
2. Site Preparation- Any excavation? Sewer issues? Demolition and/or Tree Removal?
3. Finals- Letter box, TV Antenna, Clothesline, internal Fencing, Tree plantings, Retaining Walls/Garden beds, driveway extensions or footpaths.


I always identify these for the client at the beginning so that they can budget for them before they begin.

 

[devank]

Letter box, TV Antenna, Clothesline, internal Fencing, Tree plantings, Retaining Walls/Garden beds, driveway extensions or footpaths.

Plus
- any damages to the main house tenants
- Bins

 

[brazen]

Plus
- any damages to the main house tenants
- Bins

These are ongoing costs, no?

 

[western_sydney]

What about telephone connections?

 

[brazen]

What about telephone connections?

That's covered in your build price.

 

[devank]

That's covered in your build price.

Is that the connection from the street to house? or just a wire running from outside to the inside terminal?

I believe builders generally mean the later but we assume the full connection

 

[western_sydney]

That's covered in your build price.

Out of interest what sort of cable do they run and to where? Especially in cases with Granny Flats set behind an existing house.

Assume it wouldn't include the cost of running an additional connection underground from the street?

 

[menty]

I don't think I would bother with telephone connections if it is too expensive, as most people use mobiles nowadays anyway.

However, I guess it would be useful if someone wanted to say put in an adsl connection.

On that note, how does one wire up power? From the main house or the front ?

Also, I'm having second thoughts about putting Aircon in, and just having fans. Aircon would be more prone to having problems, I'm not too sure if tenants are after Aircon or not. It can get hot in summer

 

[brazen]

POWER: Connection comes from front the house to the granny flat. A new meter is placed within the existing meter-box, so the Energy provider measures that every quarter. Sometimes the supply wiring is too thin (less than 3mm I think) and when this is the case, a new wire must be run from the pole or underground junction to the box (meter) and then onto the granny flat via a conduit.

DATA/PHONE: The Electrician will provide the wiring internally and to the exxternal point of connection by Telstra or someone with the appropriate license to connect phones to the street. Telstra usually does this part for free anyway for new connections.

GAS: A meter is bought from AGL at around $55 and the builder will pay AGL to hook it up- it's only about $160.

STORMWATER DRAINAGE- Is connected to the closest downpipe if the property has gravity-feed to the street. If no, and the property falls to the rear, either a dispersion pit is dug underground with overflow from the rainwater tank to this pit (the pit is usually 4m x 0.6m x 0.6m deep and must be min. 3m from all structures, tree trunks and boundaries) OR connection to an existing Drainage Easement is made (this is ideal) OR if the slope is not great (generally, max. 500mm fall from kerb to finished floor level) a 'charged system' can be used. This is also a relatively cheap solution because it just uses gravity.

SEWER: Connection to the property's existing 'private line' is carried out by the plumber. He sketches the new connection line and hands it to Sydney Water. Note: Country Council's own their own Sewer Infratructure and they have their own varying rules regardng proximity and cost for connection to their systems. With building close to/adjacent to Sewer, I wrote and article (with a clear picture) showing how proximity is charged by Sydney Water. The closer you get to it, the more you pay. The depth of the Sewer mains is critical in the calculation: http://www.grannyflatapprovals.com.au/news/granny-flat-sewer-help/
If you find it's helpful, Google+ it please

 

[western_sydney]

DATA/PHONE: The Electrician will provide the wiring internally and to the exxternal point of connection by Telstra or someone with the appropriate license to connect phones to the street. Telstra usually does this part for free anyway for new connections.

I think they will change something like $299 for a new/additional connection - based on my conversation with them. And then you actively need to be on a plan - not sure if there is a minimum contract period that applies. As a result of this I haven't connected mine up and it will be the responsibility of the tenant if they wish to connect it. There's a data cable running to the location of the first phone line that comes into the house proper.

 

[menty]

Update time.

As a sewer runs across the rear of my property, I got a location map to pinpoint how much room we had to play with

Hopefully I can still build well outside of the zone of influence.

Also visited a few PMS in the area today. Going rate for the front house would be $470-480. Rear house $350-370

Afternoon edit:
I have found a builder and will most likely be signing contracts on Monday. The granny flat can indeed be built, and it will have a huge rear yard too.

I can fit 2 car spots. The side access will be used for both houses but I will move the current carport to the front of the granny flat. This is more cost effective as the carport has to be dismantled anyway for the Bobcats to come in and to pour concrete. There will be a car park spot for the front house at the rear of the house. There will be 2 slabs of concrete ready for 2 small sheds for the front and rear house.

Here is a rough sketch we just drew.

Im thinking the bathroom may be a little too small.
Will have windows in the North and south corners of the house for bedrooms. (NORTH is facing the bottom of the page)
Hopefully it won't get too hot

2x 3x3.6m rooms
3x4.5m kitchen area
3x7.4 'lounge'

Proper plans to come

A quick summary
Externals-
Facade: Weatherboard cladding in a similar colour to the front house.
Roof: Concrete roof tiles in a similar colour to the front house
Wall height: 2.7 high ceilings
TV antenna: Yes

Internals-
Cornices: 120mm ornate cornices
Skirting: 120mm skirting

Doors-
internal doors: not sure what they are, but they look nice
Glass sliding door: 1.5m. Should I go for 1.8m?
Front door: a nice one!

Windows-
Aluminium windows with flyscreens. powdercoated frames

Bathroom-
Ceramic toilet suite and 900mm glass shower
Tiles to the ceiling

Bedrooms-
2 Built in robes

Kitchen:
Standard kitchen
2 sink bowl
Gas oven and cooking.
Rangehood.

Electrical:
Ceiling fans
10 powerpoints.

Extra:
Lights
Tiles throughour
Bathroom heated lights and fans.
Towel. toilet racks
All connections.
Separate water and electricity meter.
Gas hot water system
Gas connection. The gas connection I am using is separate the the AGL line. We are using 2 LPG bottles at the rear of the house, which should last about 6 months each. When the tenants run out, they will need to call the gas company to refill it.

 

[menty]

Mocked up a few more designs tonight. This is the best I can come up with (not without issues).

1. I have drawn a side entry door, in order to face the 'lounge' when the door opens. There is only 1-2m pathway at the side entrance though, and Im not sure how it will affect the front of the house in terms of looks.

2. Bed 1 I have made 3600x3000 + robe. I also made a recessed vanity area in the bathroom so it appears bigger.

3. Bathroom is 1800x3000. Because I have a recessed vanity, id like to make it 1700wide and give that extra 100mm to the Master bedroom. Thoughts?

4. The hallway area between the 2 bedrooms is a mess. I feel like Im wasting space in Bedroom 2. By having the robe inset into the wall I get to make a linen closet though. After the walls are up, bed 2 will more than likely be 2800 or so rather than 3000

These are just my ramblings. Feel free to post your thoughts.

God this looks tiny

 

[brazen]

Hi menty,

It's not tiny- at least not for what your tenant will want. Ive designed granny flats where the main dwelling was only around 70-80 sqm, so it wont be a shock as such. If you REALLY want more room, you are allowed to add patios, verandahs, decks and 'shed extensions' etc to a granny flat. Take a look at this job we did in Seven Hills, which is 95 sq m:
http://www.grannyflatapprovals.com.au/seven-hills/

Your design looks pretty similar to my 'Grant' design here:
http://www.grannyflatapprovals.com.au/grannyflatdesigns/2-bedroom/the-grant/

There's a few variations of course, but the main thing is you really want a 'pseudo-hallway' so that your tenants aren't walking straight out of a bedroom and into the living room, no?

Perhaps you should go visit one of my builders to view a completed granny flat. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Cheers,

Serge.

 

[menty]

Interesting

They do look quite similar. Bedroom 2 does look tiny though being 2600x3450
Is that kitchen too small though? Being a U shape it might be taking up too much room?

 

[brazen]

Interesting

They do look quite similar. Bedroom 2 does look tiny though being 2600x3450
Is that kitchen too small though? Being a U shape it might be taking up too much room?

Yea, I agree but it's what Joe wanted. I think he is going to make 'good use' of that 30 sq m patio, so he wanted...well. yea.

 

[menty]

After speaking to a few colleagues at work, I would like some opinion regarding car park space.

In my original idea, the plan was to do the following:
1. Move the current carport up to the granny flat.
2. Main house parking at rear of house. (between granny flat and back yard of main house)
3. shared driveway

This way it would be possible to get 2 car parking spaces. I had a think about it and it might cause arguments between both tenants, especially if the front tenants just park there car in the side (front house is side entry)

My second idea was to just do the following:
1. Leave current carport where it is.
2. Granny flat to have street parking, or if they want, they can organise using the parking with the owner of the main house.
Would this cause less problems in the future?

Is it wortwhile sacrificing the carport for the granny flat or the main house? (Bear in mind the main house is 4 bedrooms). There is plenty of street parking though.

Wish I had the length for a double driveway.

I will try and mock this up tonight