Another Newbie gatecrashes...

Hello everyone,

Firstly, I just wanted to introduce myself and say thank you! I have been obsessively lurking SS forums for the past few months, and like a sponge, have been absorbing every single post every single day. I have observed my mindset and strategy completely change since coming here, so thank you.

I recently turned 30, spent much of my life living in housing commission and felt ashamed for it. I was the first in my family to ever go to University and now I'd like to be the first to buy property. I earn 81k a year and will be getting a 3k pay rise later this year, plus an additional 5k from contract work. I have managed to save a 33k deposit over the last year after spending the better part of my 20s travelling Asia and Europe. Not a single regret, however. I don't have any credit cards or personal loans, except for a significant HECS.

I now rent in South West Sydney but spent a large proportion of my life in Melbourne. I have a foggy long-term "buy and hold" strategy that involves initially buying IO (using an offset account) cheap, established 2 bd apartments in West/South West Sydney and eventually, Melbourne (North/East) and after growing, graduating onto houses across Sydney, Melbourne and even Brisbane and Adelaide. A lot of people say they'd like to earn 100k pa from rental properties, so I might just up my stakes and say I'd learn to earn 150k pa so I can help out my family :D I have a partner who earns 76k, but unfortunately, we do not have the same financial goals at this stage, so I'll be doing it alone.

I haven't spoken to a broker yet, but that is definitely on the agenda. I thought that I should save some more money first before speaking to a broker. I will definitely have 42k by April.

My first property will be my PPOR. The NSW areas I have been looking at are close to home and include....

2 bedroom Units:

Fairfield - rental yield closer to 7%, high rental demand, fair amount of growth, well connected to public transport and shopping centre. Identified as a potential growth area in the Sydney strategy.

Liverpool - 50% are renters, good yield, shopping centre, transport, schools and identified growth spot as part of Sydney's strategy, lots of future government investment.

Guildford - proximity to Merrylands and Parramatta. Inspected a great 2 bedroom place here. Good rental yield but unsure about long-term growth. RPdata shows that prices regressed significantly and have slowly crept up but not to the same extent as surrounding suburbs.

Cabramatta - I have my reservations about living here. Experienced 60% growth over the last 5 years, good rental yield, markets, well serviced but prices have ballooned quickly. How much growth in the short-term is left?

What are your thoughts about each of these areas? Any other suggestions or feedback about anything else I've written is very welcome. I have a lot to learn!

Similarly, I hope to post a lot more along the way and hopefully help others in return...

Thanks for reading! ;)
 
In general, you're in a pretty good situation in terms of income, age, savings, planning.

However:



Why?
Thanks for your feedback, alexlee. I appreciate it. Part of my reasoning would be to have the 15k pa we pay in rent could go towards the mortgage instead.

The other reason - and I could be mistaken here - is that a couple of SS posters say that they live in their PPOR properties for a couple of years and this helps reduce the overall CG tax they have pay before they rent out their properties.
 
Thanks for your feedback, alexlee. I appreciate it. Part of my reasoning would be to have the 15k pa we pay in rent could go towards the mortgage instead.

The other reason - and I could be mistaken here - is that a couple of SS posters say that they live in their PPOR properties for a couple of years and this helps reduce the overall CG tax they have pay before they rent out their properties.

Renting is usually cheaper than owning. Renting + buying multiple ips will beat owning just one property, especially over the long term.

Yes, you can reduce the cg by having a couple of years of ownership cgt free. But you need this to last at least until you die. You might not sell for 50 years. Also it only works on one property at a time, and every time you sell there are other costs and you lose future gains on that property. There are times when selling makes sense, but rarely in the early stages and a partial cgt edemption won't be much of a factor.

The problem with thinking 'i'll live in it to save cgt' limits your thinking to one property.
 
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Definitely agree with alexlee. You may want to right up a pros and cons for owning a ppor first, if at all.

No right and wrong, I personally found for me that renting and investing in ips was more financially rewarding.

Cons being I have no place to call my own, pros being financial advantages and im not at a point I know where I want to settle down at yet.

Have a good look at your goals and ask 'will this purchase get me there'. It is hard to see the details at the start. Your investment style and goals will evolve and become more sophisticated over time. You have a stronf start, clear goals will help keep you on your journey.

Hope that helps.
 
Whilst saving on cg tax is a benefit, the gains you will make by renting and investing (and therefore being Bke to borrow more money) will significantly outweigh your cg savings
 
You have another benefit to living in your own place. Rents will tend to rise over time, whereas mortgage payments will vary only with the interest rate. After some years you will probably be paying less to live in your own place than a rented place. The only mortgage I have on my house now is a loan which was used to buy IPs.

It will be up to you to work out the financial advantages and disadvantages. Detail the two options in a spreadsheet.

You do have rates and maintenance to pay on your own house. But you also have security- you won't be asked to move on- and a place which you can customise if you want.

You are able to use your own house as security for more borrowings just as much as you can use an IP.
 
Another issue that areas that make a nice PPOR are are often not those that make good investments.

Final issue: do you really want to be a landlord?
 
Thanks for your responses everyone. This is definitely food for thought and something that I hadn't thought about before. Like geoffw wrote, I think I'll use a spreadsheet to work out the best option. I should also mention that my partner has offered to pay rent if we move in together. Nothing significant, around 5k pa to help out. I'll factor this into the equation, too.
 
Another issue that areas that make a nice PPOR are are often not those that make good investments.

Final issue: do you really want to be a landlord?


Thanks, Vaughan. The areas that I've been looking at (SW Sydney) certainly aren't blue chip areas but I'd be prepared to compromise in the short-term.

Do I want to be a landlord? It's a question that I couldn't answer with 100% confidence right now since I'm just starting out. However, I'm willing to give it a shot and see. With all things in life, there are always different options, such as using a PM or asking a family member, if I didn't want to handle that side of business. But right now, the idea seems of being a landlord seems exciting, interesting, challenging and at times, probably a complete headache.
 
Thanks, Vaughan. The areas that I've been looking at (SW Sydney) certainly aren't blue chip areas but I'd be prepared to compromise in the short-term.

That's the good thing about IPs: you won't be living in them. You could fund your way into a blue chip PPOR using IPs in cheap areas, cities you'll never live in, etc.

Do I want to be a landlord? It's a question that I couldn't answer with 100% confidence right now since I'm just starting out. However, I'm willing to give it a shot and see. With all things in life, there are always different options, such as using a PM or asking a family member, if I didn't want to handle that side of business. But right now, the idea seems of being a landlord seems exciting, interesting, challenging and at times, probably a complete headache.

Nobody buys IPs because they want to play landlord. I've heard people say that even the property itself is just a tool to get financing. If you're going to grow a big portfolio, I'd suggest using PMs from the start. Involving family is messy. Getting used to using PMs means you can buy wherever, and it's scalable.

While you don't regret the travel, you ARE 30. Get going. It's not going to get any easier to save money or invest.
 
Gov incentive

If you still decide to buy ppor first, make sure you are looking at it as your investment ie don't overcapitalise , it is very easy to get your emotions taking over. It is all about the numbers! This will hopefully allow you to save more money/ build equity to invest in further ips in the future.

Also, not sure if there is still stamp duty exemption or any sort of fhog in NSW still but you could look into buying something and live in it for 6 months and renting it out as IP after. During your 6 months stay, you could do some minor renos which will allow you to release more equity for ip number 2 in the future.

Cheers
Bez
 
Hi there, just from my own experience i am 32 and have a wife and baby and can see the advantage of having my own place (PPOR). However if I was single or have no kids I would probably rent and invest. Having your own place comes with a lot of costs such as regular maintenance costs especially if you have a house and land, council rates, strata costs if its a unit or apartment, insurance costs etc etc.. So provided you are not too picky and the numbers work for you its probably better renting and if it gets too expensive, you are free to move.
 
That's the good thing about IPs: you won't be living in them. You could fund your way into a blue chip PPOR using IPs in cheap areas, cities you'll never live in, etc.

Nobody buys IPs because they want to play landlord. I've heard people say that even the property itself is just a tool to get financing. If you're going to grow a big portfolio, I'd suggest using PMs from the start. Involving family is messy. Getting used to using PMs means you can buy wherever, and it's scalable.

While you don't regret the travel, you ARE 30. Get going. It's not going to get any easier to save money or invest.

Wise words, alexlee.

I've had a quick look at the figures - PPOR vs IP+Renting and you're right. Just using rough figures (mortgage repayments/strata/maintenance, etc), I could be as much as 9k better off each year if I continued to rent while holding onto an IP. So my strategy now is to buy IPs and then eventually use my IPs to move into a PPOR.

I hadn't even considered it before. Thank you! :D I'll be making contact with a broker (from this forum) this week.

I have another question. Given my age and the Sydney market, do you think it'd be feasible to begin looking for another IP as soon as possible? Within a year of my first IP? Perhaps I'll have a chat to my mortgage broker about this further.
 
Having your own place comes with a lot of costs such as regular maintenance costs especially if you have a house and land, council rates, strata costs if its a unit or apartment, insurance costs etc etc.

Doesn't an IP have the same costs? An IP may in some circumstances also have land tax.
 
If you still decide to buy ppor first, make sure you are looking at it as your investment ie don't overcapitalise , it is very easy to get your emotions taking over. It is all about the numbers! This will hopefully allow you to save more money/ build equity to invest in further ips in the future.

Also, not sure if there is still stamp duty exemption or any sort of fhog in NSW still but you could look into buying something and live in it for 6 months and renting it out as IP after. During your 6 months stay, you could do some minor renos which will allow you to release more equity for ip number 2 in the future.

Cheers
Bez

Hi Bez, thanks for your advice.

I have just begun inspecting properties and you're right in that it's quite easy to let your emotions take over if you think that the property will one day be your home. I think if I were adopt the perspective that this is purely an IP, which it will be, as alexlee and others have suggested, it would really help take the emotion away. It has to be a financial decision at the end of the day.

As it is a financial decision and the idea is to buy multiple properties over the next 10 years, I have set a small budget for my first two properties. I have no choice but to stick to this if I want 2 IPs within the next year or two. Thankfully my preference (financially and aesthetically) isn't for new properties with 3 toilets and a swimming pool :D
 
Have a look at South Wentworthville villas & townhouses.

Hi Rixter, I'll definitely do more research in this area. By the way, a month ago, I read your threads "We've done it again" etc, and was really inspired by your long-term strategy. I also saw your post on your success re: purchasing a Wentworthville property. Nice one :D
 
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