Anti Union homies

[tobe]

its alot easier now for workers to accumulate capital since unions made the basic wage more than a subsitance income. I congratulate you none the less on your move from worker to capitalist, and eshewing Bali holidays.

My comment above re salt mines was obviously tongue in check. There werent many, or dare I say any workers saving enough capital when they were working salt mines for subsitance wages 7 days a week.

After the union movement gave them the weekend off, some of the industrious ones might have taken a second job on sundays that helped them accumulate enough capital.

 

[Intrigued again]

After the union movement gave them the weekend off, some of the industrious ones might have taken a second job on sundays that helped them accumulate enough capital.

No all you needed in the good old days was an industrious union. check these out.

•The appropriate union convenor had to be given five days' notice before a contractor could be engaged to work on site. The company often needed to engage a contractor to carry out work (e.g. construction), which was outside the scope of work carried out by the workforce generally.
•Together with this there was an arrangement for "side by side" overtime. Where a contractor performed work on the site, the company's employees were required to be paid as if it were they who had performed the work. (13)
•Another practice was the requirement that staff should not carry out the work of wages employees, a requirement that was insisted on rigidly by the unions. Some examples of this will be given in describing the events of May 1986, which led Robe to change the management and industrial relations policy on 31 July 1986. The basic grounds for it were that the unions did not want staff people carrying out the tasks of wages workers who were on strike but, as will be seen, it went much further than that.
•The overtime roster system required that individual workers be called out in turn for overtime. Where a worker missed his "turn", that worker would be paid for the hours worked by the person who actually did the overtime. This was extended to mean that if one person got overtime during a given period, then everyone else should be entitled to it as well regardless of whether the work was there or not. On occasion it resulted in numerous workers being paid for overtime not done, under threat of black bans. (14)
•Closely related to the overtime rosters arrangement was the policy of "one job -- one call out". This meant that when a worker was called out on overtime to do a job he was paid a minimum of 4 hours overtime. If 3 jobs were required to be done, even though they might take a total of 15 minutes, the worker would be paid for 4 hours at double time for each. (15)

http://the-white-picket-fence.blogspot.com.au/1992/08/power-switch-at-robe-river.html

 

[The Fence]

its alot easier now for workers to accumulate capital since unions made the basic wage more than a subsitance income.

Ok, so how come we still have workers on wages that keep complaining that housing is unaffordable?

After the union movement gave them the weekend off, some of the industrious ones might have taken a second job on sundays that helped them accumulate enough capital.

Oh, there it is, the answer I was looking for.

Either that and or double fantastic union made wages plus some weekend work makes housing affordable, or some of these great wages earners are simply wasting money on stuff they dont need instead of saving for a house?

 

[tobe]

Ok, so how come we still have workers on wages that keep complaining that housing is unaffordable?



Oh, there it is, the answer I was looking for.

Either that and or double fantastic union made wages plus some weekend work makes housing affordable, or some of these great wages earners are simply wasting money on stuff they dont need instead of saving for a house?

the answer depends on your perspective.

Some might say housing is unaffordable to young people today because like in the olden days, just like the company shop increased their prices when wages increased, the market now increases prices when our modern wages increase (or interest rates decrease etc).

Others might argue they are just as unaffordable as they have always been, its just the young of today are too soft to do the hard yards of forgoing luxuries now for a payoff later of owning their own home.

yet others might say its because the babyboomers had everything handed to them on a platter, and they havent let go yet, and are planning on SKIING with it anyway (rather than the generational property transfers we have seen in previous generations). While they are sitting on 4 bedroom houses in the inner rings, their children are priced out, and too busy paying off their Hecs debt, the gap bulk billing no longer covers etc etc.

 

[BayView]

Others might argue they are just as unaffordable as they have always been, its just the young of today are too soft to do the hard yards of forgoing luxuries now for a payoff later of owning their own home.

This one is of special relevance to me, being an old b@stard who was there when it was "the old days"...

I don't believe young folk are soft, but the choices weren't there back in the old days.

There was no 5 years interest free deal from Harvey,
There was no credit card
There was almost no technology to spend you money on with the never-ending monthly payments (Internet service, mobile phone, Iphone, etc.)
Car loans were hard to get, and prohibitive - unlike today where they practically drag you into the dealership and give you the loan out of their office.

So, it was easier to spend less on cr@p that the ads tried to convince you you simply couldn't do without....easier to save.

Folk simply worked, saved, bought their cheapie first home with a P&I loan at 80% lend - it was modest and not new - and saved for second hand furniture.

This is not the mainstream activity these days from what I have seen.

yet others might say its because the babyboomers had everything handed to them on a platter, and they havent let go yet, and are planning on SKIING with it anyway (rather than the generational property transfers we have seen in previous generations). While they are sitting on 4 bedroom houses in the inner rings, their children are priced out, and too busy paying off their Hecs debt, the gap bulk billing no longer covers etc etc.

As above, these folk started small and without, then worked and traded up to the better house.

 

[Angel]

''Unions, from the people that brought you the weekend''

Whether they have now gone to far in their demands, or whether they havent gone far enough, or whether they are no longer relevant, they did bring us the weekend.......

Sorry, the Churches brought you the weekend. It was called the Sabbath and has been around for three thousand years or more. Just to add some more colour to the discussion, did we know that Unions were originally trade guilds started by churches to take care of poor workers and their families in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries?

Christians are expected to take care of the widows and orphans. It is right up there with Pay Caesar his dues (taxes) and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[The Fence]

Gotta agree with all BV has said above, very well summed up.

We hit the kudos button.

 

[Nemo30]

Just to add some more colour to the discussion, did we know that Unions were originally trade guilds started by churches to take care of poor workers and their families in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries?

As part of some family history research, I've been doing some research into the poor law union workhouses in Ireland in the 1840's. Until recently I had no idea how bad things really were.

I'm really grateful that I live here and now.

 

[Aaron Sice]

um, it wouldnt have a special name like 'sunday trading' if we didnt have the weekend. And the weekend came from the union movement.
.

give it ten years.....seriously.

no one calls it "Saturday trading" anymore, do they? working a Saturday is a given.

food for thought.

 

[BayView]

give it ten years.....seriously.

no one calls it "Saturday trading" anymore, do they? working a Saturday is a given.

food for thought.

It's not a given in many industries.

Almost all employees are made aware of the need for them to be available to work on weekends before they start a new job.

Why? Because it is not something everyone wants to do, and this is proven by the fact that almost all wage earning jobs are paid a higher rate for weekend shifts....it's a carrot that hopefully entices them to say they will do it.

Otherwise they probably wouldn't.

Some - like nurses - actively seek out these weekend shifts because of the better pay rates, leaving hubby at home to manage the kids, and then have days off during the week to manage the kids while hubby works. But it's a choice; not a given.

In my previous life in golf, it is understood that you have to be available to work weekends and public holidays because these are the premium days for golfers - the busiest days.

But, the staff are paid more for those days, unless there is an agreement in place to pay them more as a flat rate which encompasses the various shifts.

In my current life in the automotive industry, I have only had a couple of the staff who were interested in working on a Saturday morning; the rest said no - even thought they get time and a half for the work.

 

[BayView]

Sorry, the Churches brought you the weekend. It was called the Sabbath and has been around for three thousand years or more. Just to add some more colour to the discussion, did we know that Unions were originally trade guilds started by churches to take care of poor workers and their families in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries?

Christians are expected to take care of the widows and orphans. It is right up there with Pay Caesar his dues (taxes) and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And yay, verily, did God, on the seventh day, invent golf, and he thus went forward and played it.

And God was pleased.....

Actually; he wasn't because he can't seem to cure his slice with his driver, he 3-putted four holes, and it took 5 hours for the round.

"Spare a Talent for an old ex-lepper".

 

[lizzie]

Others might argue they are just as unaffordable as they have always been, its just the young of today are too soft to do the hard yards of forgoing luxuries now for a payoff later of owning their own home.

Ah yes ... at hubby's work - where they are on darn good mining wages - the retrenchment knife has recently been going thru.

We are sitting fine ... but many of his co-workers are suddenly looking with dismay at their mcmansions, boat, flash new car, caravan, holiday home etc - and the associated debt - with concern.

 

[BayView]

We are sitting fine ... but many of his co-workers are suddenly looking with dismay at their mcmansions, boat, flash new car, caravan, holiday home etc - and the associated debt - with concern.

Where are they?

I might be in a position soon to pick up a cheap boat, jet ski, McMansion as an IP, etc.

 

[DaveM]

Ah yes ... at hubby's work - where they are on darn good mining wages - the retrenchment knife has recently been going thru.

We are sitting fine ... but many of his co-workers are suddenly looking with dismay at their mcmansions, boat, flash new car, caravan, holiday home etc - and the associated debt - with concern.

Yeah I know of people who started in mining as first year apprentice sparkies on 100k+ and are earning a tonne as years went by and burning through their cash living the high life like its never going to end. Only to be be made reduandant and trying to figure out how they are going to be able to keep living the high life on 60k as a domestic sparky.

 

[tobe]

As above, these folk started small and without, then worked and traded up to the better house.

I'd disagree, babyboomers started with everything, and got more. Free university, free heathcare, a second income to help buy their house before this was priced in by the market, etc etc

 

[tobe]

Sorry, the Churches brought you the weekend. It was called the Sabbath and has been around for three thousand years or more. Just to add some more colour to the discussion, did we know that Unions were originally trade guilds started by churches to take care of poor workers and their families in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries?

Christians are expected to take care of the widows and orphans. It is right up there with Pay Caesar his dues (taxes) and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Churches brought us the sabbath, that was the break on a sunday morning. it wasnt the weekend, and it wasnt the 8 hour day.

trade guilds prior to industrialisation were tolerated because they were artisans, and part of the upper classes. It was simple protecting their 'capital', or specialist knowledge. What changed was industrialisation, which needed unskilled labour. When relatively unskilled labour began getting uppity, copying the guilds, things got ugly.

 

[BayView]

I'd disagree, babyboomers started with everything, and got more. Free university, free heathcare, a second income to help buy their house before this was priced in by the market, etc etc

Yeah, it was all cucumber sandwiches and G&T's on the verandah....

Started with "everything"?

What's "everything"?

Apart from free Uni, the rest was the same as far as I know and still is.

In fact; many didn't have a second income.

I suppose you could say that Medicare isn't free because of the levy, but hey; care factor - it's minimal for the vast majority.

A few high income earners might sook about it, but they have a high income to soften the pain. Life's a bitge.

It's the ones who never use it - like me - who get no value out of it, but I'm more than happy about that.

 

[geoffw]

I'd disagree, babyboomers started with everything, and got more. Free university, free heathcare, a second income to help buy their house before this was priced in by the market, etc etc

I had free uni, granted. But that was a time when only a minority went to uni. You had to do quite well at school to get in.

And many of the young men only slightly older than me got given free government jobs.

In Vietnam.

Only a change of government just months before I turned 18 made the possibility of conscription disappear for me.

In the meantime, there were no baby bonuses or first home owners grants. I have never qualified for a FHOG or stamp duty exemption.

I've just worked for what I now have, and took advantage of what opportunities there were there- which were much better than the opportunities my parents had, but not up to the opportunities today.

Each generation has had to work damn hard for what they get. But each generation gets more prosperous than the one before it. My grandkids will probably complain how much better their parents had it, while enjoying a level of prosperity well above what we have now.

 

[wylie]

I'd disagree, babyboomers started with everything, and got more. Free university, free heathcare, a second income to help buy their house before this was priced in by the market, etc etc

That is just complete ignorance of the real situation, and you know it.

 

[Crabnet]

And many of the young men only slightly older than me got given free government jobs.

In Vietnam.

I remember a friend of mine, his slightly older brother got one of those jobs.
But he ended up paying.


With his legs, which were blown off. My friend was inconsolable.