Any see the Nathan Birch interview with Kochie on Sunrise?

Yes, the Force is strong in Nathan.

I suppose it's a lot like most things in life- it is the perception of value. This forum has a wealth of free advice for any Newbie- yet many people want to divest themselves of responsibility in their decision making process. I'm paying someone therefore I should get something in return. If it goes wrong I'll blame Nathan. That's all very well but it was the investor who loses the dough. Blaming Nathan isn't going to bring it back.

I'm not a big fan of buyer's agents or what I understand to be Nathan's strategy- but it may work for other people. The 10k with respect is better spent on a deposit in my view.

I can't recall the last time Nathan posted here- I recall he was quite active and built a profile here- and indeed obtained some clients it would seem. The knowledge is now pay-to-access which is a good little wicket I suppose. As a lawyer I get much of this commercially confidential info free from my clients so I suppose I may have a negative view on paying for tricks of the trade.

Personally I don't buy into the whole behind the scenes referral thing with Agents- I've probably referred 4 properties in the last year to agents I know will get the best price for the seller. In fact I spent an hour on Friday (free of charge) telling an old lady who had signed up with an agent how to keep him honest and not to sell before holding at least 1 open house so we don't get any agent shenanigans. All this effort for a $650 conveyance (I make much more on my litigation practice) probably loses me money- but as I see over and over this world seems to be those with knowledge and deception gaining advantage over the na?ve and trusting.

On a lucky day I get to sue the wrongdoers and make their life a misery- but those days are few and far between.

Ultimately people have to be comfortable with their moral compass. The scary part is that some people delude themselves as to the true direction of their compass.
 
Featured in YIP April 2014.

Westmead - unit - 1997 - 135k (420k)
Baulkham Hills - house - 2001 - 335k (750k)
2012
Earlwille QLD - 2 units @ 200k and 190 k (290k and 230k)
Clifton beach - 3 units at 183k each (275k, 275k, 295k)
Tamworth - house - 116k+20kreno (200k)
Ourimbah - 4 townhouses @ 202k each (300k each)
2013
Pt Macq - 2 units @ 234k and 259k (250k, 280k)
Moree - house - 30k+15kreno (110k)
Northmead - house - 490k+60kreno (630k)
2014
Hurstville - unit - 625k (670k)
Moree - 3 houses (mentioned as on 1 block of land) - 30k, 30k, ? (60k, 100k, 180k)

Total price 4,126k; total value 6,215k

Adding those figures, it shows a total purchase price of $4,126k, with a "current value" of $6,215, equity of $2,089

Take away the two properties purchased in 1997 and 2001 (which is before she met Nathan), that becomes $3,656k and $5,045k equity of $1,389 - a difference of $700k. Thats pretty big in my opinion.

Now to question these values even further (which I now see what Kochie may have been getting at).

Moree property puchased in 2013 for 45k. Valued at $110k. Mind you Nathan can't even sell his property for $89k.
Now for the 3 properties on 1 block, there's a question mark for the 3rd figure cost price, yet thats valued at $180k?
Moree - 3 houses (mentioned as on 1 block of land) - 30k, 30k, ? (60k, 100k, 180k)
And truthfully, until the property itself is subdivided, its not worth the value of 3 homes (let alone the prices quoted for what they are supposedly valued at).

The issue with all this is the rosy picture being painted by Nathan.... its not right.
 
I copied those figures from YIP magazine. I reckon that out of those last three Moree houses, only two are in one land. Only one purchase price was mentioned so I inserted a "?"

Btw, only buying price is mentioned. Not the loans itself. As that couple started with some equity, it is possible that they used their initial equity and equity released from new purchases as their deposits and buying costs. That way it is possible that the actual loans are higher than the purchase prices mentioned. If so there won't be a 2M equity.
 
Be careful of buying in regional areas they need to be reasonably large and witha diversified economy to on sell places at a later date. Whilst some claim that over 100 properties...I would be more impressed if they were in capital cities. Having them in small regional cities might give you CF....it will hurt if you had to sell in a hurry.

Wise words indeed. If folks insist on buying rural, they need to go in with their eyes open, the less gearing the better.

{deleted}
 
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When Steve McKnight purchased 130+ regional properties in Victoria many years ago he doubled his money and then sold the lot, not sure this will happen today unless there is some major development to push the prices up in a specific regional area.

When I research some regional areas in many cases the cash flow has been quite pathetic really, perhaps $3000 pa cash flow, but the trade off is you are buying inferior/older properties, I expect maintenance issues during the year could easily wipe this off. Not to mention the associated risks with vacancies, tenants etc.

All to their own, but personally I think there are easier ways to achieve better growth/cash flow.

MTR:)
 
When Steve McKnight purchased 130+ regional properties in Victoria many years ago he doubled his money and then sold the lot, not sure this will happen today unless there is some major development to push the prices up in a specific regional area.

When I research some regional areas in many cases the cash flow has been quite pathetic really, perhaps $3000 pa cash flow, but the trade off is you are buying inferior/older properties, I expect maintenance issues during the year could easily wipe this off. Not to mention the associated risks with vacancies, tenants etc.

All to their own, but personally I think there are easier ways to achieve better growth/cash flow.

MTR:)

In addition to Victoria I think the majority in Steve McKnight's 0-130 days came from NZ. 30-60 IP's purchased in one day ! $20K price ranges...I could be wrong...I bought the E-book version for $9 from memory some time ago & he stated he would NOT be attempting something like that these days if he had his time again.

Strategies like this, as MTR said...are not for everyone. For every success story, there are thousands that don't make it. Or face financial disaster etc.

Like always due diligence.
 
Yes, that is right.
Also he purchased many in the US (Florida), once again Steve McK doubled his money by buying low end feeder stuff, but don't do this at home kids unless you have Steve McKs contacts and his big $ to manage the risk.

MTR
 
Whilst some claim that over 100 properties...I would be more impressed if they were in capital cities. Having them in small regional cities might give you CF....it will hurt if you had to sell in a hurry.

very true sash
it would be more the quality as oppose to quantity that i think is important
I agree nathan has done well over the past, but it depends on timing of the market, wages and growth of the housing market, what might have worked well 10-15 years ago may not necessarily work now and the same methods may not be as fruitful as before. that being said, investing your money is important and nobody better manages it better than yourself.
 
I'm only a novice but if I was in the same position at Nek, one I think I'd limit it to a buyer's agent at a max $5,000 fee. That way you should be in front if they help to buy under-market. And two, I'd invest in some Property Reports to find the suburbs of choice for your strategy, like Hotspotting or RPData. Look at those values.

Three, I would ask ask ask local people what they consider good value suburbs and streets in the area (i.e. someone who is not going to talk it up). Locals know the ins and outs of security, transport, scruffs, shops, etc. Ask many agents/managers about rents, not just one.
 
Buyers agents fees are usually not negotiable.
Good buyers agents usually have a range of fees based on their services and they will discuss the ones that suit you. Ones who don't care about people will just flog you what they think they can get away with.

As for your other points all valid. However, it was not me that paid the fee to Nathan Birch. It was my brother in laws friend - and I've talked him numerous times (before and after he paid Nathan's fee). What he was after was a mentoring service.

What he got was an email saying "go check out this property". At least a buyer's agent would have gone to the property with you. He didn't even get that.
 
100% agree Melbournian...what is really wrong is how some people are dumping their cash in regional towns where it will be hard to get out. This is not going to be good. Liquidity is mostly in larger cities as they are more diversified in terms of their economies.

very true sash
it would be more the quality as oppose to quantity that i think is important
I agree nathan has done well over the past, but it depends on timing of the market, wages and growth of the housing market, what might have worked well 10-15 years ago may not necessarily work now and the same methods may not be as fruitful as before. that being said, investing your money is important and nobody better manages it better than yourself.


There question I would ask is why are buyers agents so special that they charge more than real estate agents. When I sold a unit a couple of years ago for 250k....the agent worked his ring off for 6k total. Why would you pay 10k for poor service? The other gripe I have is the arrogance of some buyers agents as they are member of an industry body. This body was set-up by buyers agents...and acts in the interests of buyers agents...do not be fooled. As I said before the person who is best to act in your interest is YOUSELF!
Buyers agents fees are usually not negotiable.
Good buyers agents usually have a range of fees based on their services and they will discuss the ones that suit you. Ones who don't care about people will just flog you what they think they can get away with.

As for your other points all valid. However, it was not me that paid the fee to Nathan Birch. It was my brother in laws friend - and I've talked him numerous times (before and after he paid Nathan's fee). What he was after was a mentoring service.

What he got was an email saying "go check out this property". At least a buyer's agent would have gone to the property with you. He didn't even get that.
 
The question I would ask is why are buyers agents so special that they charge more than real estate agents. When I sold a unit a couple of years ago for 250k....the agent worked his ring off for 6k total. Why would you pay 10k for poor service? The other gripe I have is the arrogance of some buyers agents as they are member of an industry body. This body was set-up by buyers agents...and acts in the interests of buyers agents...do not be fooled. As I said before the person who is best to act in your interest is YOUSELF!

It makes me smile when I hear people are paying these guys $10k to talk them into buying something just so they can get their commission. Agree 100% their industry body is only there to protect and promote themselves and give an air of respectability when they're really on the same level as car salesman and real estate agents. Don't listen to this hogwash about making sure to employ one who belongs to their club.
 
There question I would ask is why are buyers agents so special that they charge more than real estate agents. When I sold a unit a couple of years ago for 250k....the agent worked his ring off for 6k total. Why would you pay 10k for poor service?

I don't think anyone would or should pay $10K for poor service. If I was paying that much, I would want excellent service. If you're paying $10K and getting poor service, you're doing it wrong.

You do need to take into consideration the differences between what a buyers agent and a selling agent does for you.

A selling agent merely arranges advertising, holds open inspections, perhaps contacts their database of purchasers. What's more - generally, prospective purchasers come to them (via the adverts they place) - they don't have to drive around town trying to find a buyer for you. It's mostly just administrative work, with a bit of sweat put into trying to secure an actual sale. In my dealing with sales agents, their assistants do most of the work - the agent only steps in to do the negotiating once some good prospects have emerged.

In contrast a buyers agent will run all over town trying to find you a property which meets your specifications. They don't just browse the internet and send you listings (if that's all you're getting for your money, you are getting ripped off IMO) - they actually put in the leg work to go and inspect properties to find out what they are really like and whether they really meet your expectations - talk to sales agents to find out what is happening in the market - and negotiate a good deal for you when they find something you like.

It's quite a different ball game, and not fair to compare them.
 
dex.....spot on...could not agree more.....

It makes me smile when I hear people are paying these guys $10k to talk them into buying something just so they can get their commission. Agree 100% their industry body is only there to protect and promote themselves and give an air of respectability when they're really on the same level as car salesman and real estate agents. Don't listen to this hogwash about making sure to employ one who belongs to their club.


Sim....10k is way over the top to pay for a property than 550k. I guess this is an old chestnut. Lets put it this way...there are quite a few people on this forum who have been burnt by buyers agents.

What I don't like is all the indirect promotion of buyers agents. As dex above says....the veil of legitimacy is paramount to put a wolf in sheeps clothing! Don't get me wrong...I don't mind buyers agents....but what most of the forum charge is ridiculous....5k is more realistic! But 10k on properties less than 250k common on.....
I don't think anyone would or should pay $10K for poor service. If I was paying that much, I would want excellent service. If you're paying $10K and getting poor service, you're doing it wrong.

You do need to take into consideration the differences between what a buyers agent and a selling agent does for you.

A selling agent merely arranges advertising, holds open inspections, perhaps contacts their database of purchasers. What's more - generally, prospective purchasers come to them (via the adverts they place) - they don't have to drive around town trying to find a buyer for you. It's mostly just administrative work, with a bit of sweat put into trying to secure an actual sale. In my dealing with sales agents, their assistants do most of the work - the agent only steps in to do the negotiating once some good prospects have emerged.

In contrast a buyers agent will run all over town trying to find you a property which meets your specifications. They don't just browse the internet and send you listings (if that's all you're getting for your money, you are getting ripped off IMO) - they actually put in the leg work to go and inspect properties to find out what they are really like and whether they really meet your expectations - talk to sales agents to find out what is happening in the market - and negotiate a good deal for you when they find something you like.

It's quite a different ball game, and not fair to compare them.
 
But 10k on properties less than 250k common on.....
Sadly, my brother in law's mate was charged $10k for a property under $250k :(

That said, I think some buyers agents provide fantastic value for the service they provide (eg paying $5-8k for properties on something that is worth $500k+, run around looking at properties and negotiating on your behalf), paying $10k for <$250k is just taking advantage of people.
 
services

It should not be about what he charges it should be about the value a client receives.

Now this is a general observation rather than aimed at Nathan because I do not know a lot about his operation. I do also run a property business mainly out of the United states.

Where the problem comes in is that as these groups grow in size they take offices and increase there staff and of course there advertising. Then because of there costs they start to take short cuts with there services. Many companies out there make the money and the client ends up with the crumbs.

So do your research very carefully. If someone asks me about my service I will also provide 5 or 6 phone numbers so that they can talk directly with my clients. Because you should always do due diligence on whoever you are dealing with
 
but what most of the forum charge is ridiculous....5k is more realistic!

Putting aside the specifics of this thread..........

Commercial reality would suggest that your generalist view is probably not sustainable.

There has been a lot of discussion on fees and comms on both BA and seller side ........... with many commenting about comms /fees being " too high"

If that view was half reasonable, the Go Geckos of the world would have the market absolutely to themselves.

They dont. So either consumers are voting with their $, or 80% of sellers or so are ????

ta
rolf
 
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