Anyone have a view on MBAs?

OK,

Under weight of evidence I'm happy to concede that Uni degrees in no way make you more open minded! :D Gees, if George W is an educated man then that alone completely refutes my argument! :eek:

I still reckon an MBA is a great degree and fully support Acey's plans to go get one. But only for those that don't already have a business related undergraduate degree. My undergraduate degree was in IT so my MBA has really helped me round out my general business knowledge.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people I hold in enormous respect that don't have degrees of any kind. I'm just saying that I also respect those determined enough to do the hard yards to get a degree too, and particularly those that have got an E-MBA from the AGSM as I know just how hard it is to do this one.

It probably didn't help that I was sitting at home (as I am again now) studying for my MBA residential all next week when I read Dale's post. I've had to give up my entire long weekend in preparation. Not to mention all the previous weekends and weeknights given over to study and assignments. I consider my ongoing education to be VERY important, and I consider this MBA to be critical to my future business success, within an organisation or as Director of my own newly formed organisation. So, it doesn't quite sit right when someone says they think they're a waste of time. I personally reckon all education, regardless of the field, NOT to be a waste of time. And I particularly consider my MBA to be some of the best investment in my self-betterment that I've undertaken to date.

So I say go for it to Craig! You'll never look back!!

OK, back to reading about how Jack Welch transformed GE during his two decade tenure. Very insightful specific lessons around focus, stretch goals, culture, values and empowerment. But hey, you wouldn't be interested in all that useless stuff right?... ;)

Cheers,
Michael.
 
Hi Michael

I disappoint a lot of people with my views on the world. Funny, I ahve more letters after my name than I have in my name and yet the more I learn from education institutions the less I value it.

In contrast though, the more I learn in life from life itself, the more I value it.

Yes, that makes me ignorant and a fool to some.....

Have fun, Michael.

Dale

Dale,

That response is normally the defence of the uneducated which frankly surprises me coming from you. You struck me as an insightful educated man. Whilst broad-based life experience is important, it is just as important to have a theoretical basis in which to ground that experience.

Regards,
Michael.
 
I tend to agree with the view that studying adds to the references and frameworks that provide you with alternate and extended views to life - of course add this to life experience itself rather than treat them mutually exclusively.

Having completed 3 tertiary qualifications myself including a Masters by Research, I would have to say the benefit of study has been enormous in my life. After all, studying is simply learning.

Tim
 
Yes, that makes me ignorant and a fool to some.....

Have fun, Michael.

Dale
Dale,

You ARE one of those people that I do hold in very high regard. I trust you weren't offended by my post as I was just mounting the argument that formal learning can be just as important as informal learning. Maybe its because I don't have many letters behind my name that I still view formal education as having something positive to offer.

Maybe when I'm as experienced as yourself I will have a more critical view of formal education, but until then I'll just keep plodding along with my study in the vain hope that I will truly learn and grow from the experience...

Enjoy the journey!

Cheers,
Michael.
 
Guys, this is a bit of a silly debate. You will get successful people from all walks of life, with a degree or without a degree it comes down to the individual and don't think we can generalise. There are hugely successful business people with and without degrees.

It is a personal choice and there are many routes along different career paths. (with exceptions, ie Medicine) but at the end of the day its up to the individual to make something happen.
 
Thanks Bruce,

That article echoes my sentiments quite well I think. Its good to know that a good MBA like the one I am studying currently can have a momentous impact on those that undertake it. My MBA has already had a huge impact on my own self-efficacy and has lifted me to my current executive role. It has also given me the strength to pursue property developments where previously I would have probably had niggling self doubts that would have precluded me from doing so.

I am mentally armed and dangerous!

Look out! :D

Cheers,
Michael.
 
Im currently studying a MBA/MFP. I have been part time for quite a while now.

I think the reasons why you want to complete an MBA will determine whether it is of value to you!

I think being dismissive of learning either through practice or study is the only mistake that you can make!

If you want a generalist degree for senior management then the MBA can provide that, IMHO the MBA's strength is in removing barriers/silo's created by specialisation and experience.

What is does not provide is challenging study from an academic perspective if you have experience in the subject area.

I was very jaded when I first started my MBA. The fact that you do not have to have an undergrad degree (of any kind) to be studying IMHO makes the degree suffer. As Pitt mentioned the entry level of some courses leave something to be desired. Not all MBA's are created equal!

This leads to subjects that an undergrad should, can, would and do pass easily. I passed an economics final exam without attending lectures/tutorials, without the textbook, course notes. Oh, I did get one qn wrong. What a joke.

But (and this is a big but) it does provide benefits.

Area's outside of my expertise I now have a good general overview and framework for decision making. I have overseen some large IT/BI projects (my background is in finance) that have been possible because of the skills, knowledge and framework provided by the MBA.
 
While we're on this topic, the MBA programme at IMD (Switzerland) sounds awesome. It is taught in English and is restricted to 90 people each year; mostly from different countries. Reading the blogs of a few students really gets you motivated. The 12 essays required for the application would separate the men from the boys though.


I think uni just makes it easier to access the resources that some people need to achieve their goals. Of course in some cases it is a regulatory requirement, but in general you are choosing to become surrounded by your own interests and like-minded people. It's not a you vs. me contest, it's just another tool in the toolbox. How can you possibly dismiss increased access to resources and being surrounded by like-minded people? That's just unreasonable.
 
Hi AceyDucey,

On a slightly more random note, I'm currently studying part-time towards a Master of Wine Business. It's quite similar to an MBA in many ways, but with a wine industry focus...I'm studying Economics, Advanced Marketing, Business Management, Management Science, Financial and Managerial Accounting through to Viticulture (growing the grapes), Oenology (making the wine) and Sensory Science (so I know how to describe a Sav Blanc as having notes of fresh-cut grass and passionfruit on the nose with crisp honey nettle and juicy kiwi fruit carrying through to the palate). ;)

I've actually surprised myself with uni this time round. It's really hard working full-time and studying 2 units a semester but amazingly I'm focused, motivated and strangely emulating one of those mature age students who sat at the back of class during my undergrad. I guess this time I have a goal in mind, I know which direction I want my career to head and I find the study creates a more challenged, stimulated, receptive, well-rounded me.

Ultimately you should be asking yourself where you want to be in 5 years time. Will an MBA contribute positively towards that career extension, or could you achieve it on the path you are currently on? Can you realistically sacrifice time on your weekends and after work to study and complete assignments? If the answer to both of those is 'yes', I say go for it! Although I've got at least another 2 years of this, undertaking postgrad studies is one of the most positive moves I've made towards my own personal development in quite some time. :)

- Siege v(^-^)b
 
Hi AceyDucey,

On a slightly more random note, I'm currently studying part-time towards a Master of Wine Business. ...

Is there a Masters of Wine Drinking? Or even better BEER!!!! I would even consider going back to study if there is such a thing:cool:

Sorry couldn't resist:D

Cheers - Gordon
 
Mba

Haven't posted for a while but find this topic very close to home.

My wife has an MBA and find her level of analysis on anything to be very thorough. However it borders on paralysis analysis when I want to move forward with IP purchase (hope she's not reading this!)

My question for forumites with an MBA or someone you know with one is do you think it actually helped increase your/their portfolio?

PS Could one of the moderators please change me from Gladstone 42 to just Gladstone as it's been a few years since I was 42 when I first joined the forum.

Regards
 
I'm also completing an (AGSM) MBA. I have found it very worthwhile. As an IT Architect, it gave me rounding in other professional areas (finance, marketing, sales etc) to be able to "speak their language". It was certainly a fast-track to inclusion in the competitive pursuit environment. Further, I found the analysis of cultural issues in personnel management (high-power distance cultures etc) and the formal analysis techniques invaluable in working in South East Asia - providing the ability to critically analyse past performance and develop positive plans of action.

Could I have learnt these things "on the job"? Probably, after time and many more mistakes. During the learning time, I would not have had the inclusion or standing within the teams I was working with. Did these learnings reduce the number of mistakes made and increase my profile and reputation in a challenging area I was wanting to work in - without a doubt. Further, has it fast-tracked my career money making capability? Much more than the ticket price already.

Additionally, the learnings in finance etc meant that I had exposure to other disciplines that I would not get in OTJ training, meaning that I could be considered for a much broader range of roles at a much more senior level than restarting from scratch.

So, for me, it has been money well spent. I certainly would not begrudge anybody choosing to attempt an MBA or not and personally do find it a little galling when others out and out decry those who do them as wasting time & / or money.

To each their own.

My question for forumites with an MBA or someone you know with one is do you think it actually helped increase your/their portfolio?

Yes, it has helped. I was lucky enough to do a subject on Real Estate Financing and Investment Decisions. Of course, it's only a quick intensive course in number crunching, but means that I was comfortable, for example with all of the concepts and terminology discussed at the July SIG. I could suggest that others may not have been.

In this situation, OTJ training, reading magazines or exposure might lead to a general understanding concepts or rules of thumb - with the course, I'm comfortable with the terminolgy, theories and more importantly, calculations involved.

I think you'll find that in MW's case, it's this confidence with the concepts and calculations that make him much more comfortable in approaching a development early in his property investment strategy than without. I expect the same.

I'm happy to discuss my personal experiences in the IT industry (PM me if you like). No doubt from comments in the forum its horses for courses in others.

Cheers,
 
Hi all,

I don't know much about MBA. I have only completed the NEIS (new enterprise incentive scheme) provided by the government. My brother is currently doing his MBA (half way through), and after comparing notes we have found out that it's an expensive way to gain business knowledge (he wants to start up his own business).

However, from the universities' point of view, it's a great income source for them! (I am currently working for the University of New South Wales) :)
 
With all due respect, you cannot hope to compare the knowledge provided by an MBA with NEIS. Learning outcomes are completely different.
 
Well, depends on what you want to achieve.

Personally, I think if all you want to do is to be able to run your own small business, then the NEIS course or a TAFE business course will be sufficient.

I think MBA is more for people who wish to climb the corporate ladder - just my personal opinion.
 
Csu

Has anyone looked into Charles Sturt's Master of Business? It may not have the reputation of AGSM, but with a full-time job and two kids I thought this might be one course that could be do-able - course materials all provided saving all that time searching uni libraries for books and journal articles. And the courses all look practical and useful for many careers.
 
Re: Charles Sturt (and other distance education MBAs*)

Imho they will be of no-less quality than an MBA you will get from any of the big name schools - except that they don't have the big name (or the massive fees).

There's even a very valid argument to be made that the calibre of students in those programs should be as good, if not better, than the f/t city based programs. After all, do high powered executives have the time to take 12-18 months off work to do a f/t MBA, or a schedule that allows them to be locked into regular classes? (even if those classes are after-hours).

M

* A good site that lists online and distance education MBAs in Australia is mbaonline.com.au.
 
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