Anyone know business contract lawyer

[bumblegoodie]

Hello,

Sorry i didnt say thanks to those ppl that responded to my other thread about owning a business.

iam in the process of negotiating a business for sale and i do not know any lawyer that can read business sales contract.

Could anyone here help me please?

thanks
BG

 

[Scott No Mates]

I hear that Minter Ellison are quite savvy.

 

[RPI]

If it is franchise then someone who does franchises would be a good idea. Business sales and purchases often end up to be more complex than most people think. If there is a lease involved then that will need someone comfortable with both.

Are you willing to share type of business on here?

 

[TMNT]

are you buying or selling?

 

[bumblegoodie]

thanks guys.

is not a franchise but a retail food business.

is short hours but making good profit.

love to hear who is out there that can offer more options

Scott, thanks but they look like bigger law firm but will give them a call tomorrow

 

[Terry_w]

I could do it, but not for a few days.

 

[bumblegoodie]

thanks Terry.

I will PM you for further advice.

 

[sanj]

I hear that Minter Ellison are quite savvy.

They're good if you want to spend an extra $150 to $300 an hour!

Having said that I do use a top notch legal firm for some specialist matters like HR and smaller firms for agreements, leases etc

 

[bumblegoodie]

thanks Sanj.

my dilemmas is negotiating a business without firm financial records as all is done via cash sale.....

they are willing to let me try for 2 weeks with 10% deposit and if the sales doesn't match up then is fully refunded.....

I already checked the profit and loss statement , lease, wages and all is well.

Any other tips I should look out for when buying a business?

 

[S.T]

5 seconds on google

http://www.business.gov.au/business-topics/starting-a-business/Pages/buying-a-business.aspx

 

[cu@thetop]

5 seconds on google

http://www.business.gov.au/business-topics/starting-a-business/Pages/buying-a-business.aspx

Who's got 5 seconds in this day and age?

 

[sanj]

thanks Sanj.

my dilemmas is negotiating a business without firm financial records as all is done via cash sale.....

they are willing to let me try for 2 weeks with 10% deposit and if the sales doesn't match up then is fully refunded.....

I already checked the profit and loss statement , lease, wages and all is well.

Any other tips I should look out for when buying a business?

You're buying a business which currently doesn't properly declare it's earnings? Be careful of that. Are they asking for a multiple of off the book earnings? How is it being valued atm?

I'm a bit confused thoufh because you said you have checked their p&l but you also say they don't really have proper records.

 

[BayView]

You're buying a business which currently doesn't properly declare it's earnings? Be careful of that. Are they asking for a multiple of off the book earnings? How is it being valued atm?

I'm a bit confused thoufh because you said you have checked their p&l but you also say they don't really have proper records.

I looked at buying a laundromat some years ago.

They were asking a fair bit compared to the figures.

The agent pointed out to me the water and electricity consumption with a nod and a wink and a "yaknowwhadImean?"...lots of interesting accounting I suspect.

I offered based on the figures presented, and they declined the offer.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Bumblegoodie; offer based on the figures presented and what you feel is realistic.

In this day and age goodwill accounts for zip, so I'd discount any of that for a start (learning from experience, unfortunately).

 

[MRO]

thanks Sanj.

my dilemmas is negotiating a business without firm financial records as all is done via cash sale.....

they are willing to let me try for 2 weeks with 10% deposit and if the sales doesn't match up then is fully refunded.....

I already checked the profit and loss statement , lease, wages and all is well.

Any other tips I should look out for when buying a business?

Are you buying the entity or just the business assets?
You could be buying a potential tax liability for the undeclared income.

 

[Truly Exotic]

are you going through a broker?
if its going through a broker, you can do the 10% deposit with 2 weeks trial without any risk of getting ripped off or railroaded

as for cash or not, it would entirely depend on the type of industry, some industryies are very cash based,

and if it is cash based, be careful of the uncle jimbo and cousin jimmy jacking up turnover by washing their clothes and bedsheets 12 times per day

 

[sanj]

In this day and age goodwill accounts for zip, so I'd discount any of that for a start (learning from experience, unfortunately).

i disagree with this personally, if there is a good business with strong, reliable earnings and solid systems there is certainly value attached to the goodwill and systems imo.

if a business is making say $500k net including wages for managing the place (be it the owner doing it or an employee) why would someone sell it for plant and equiptment value?

 

[Truly Exotic]

i disagree with this personally, if there is a good business with strong, reliable earnings and solid systems there is certainly value attached to the goodwill and systems imo.

if a business is making say $500k net including wages for managing the place (be it the owner doing it or an employee) why would someone sell it for plant and equiptment value?

+1million

Good will so important these days especially particular industries

Hospitality, its vital, (less for franchises)

industries such as online retail for generic products Id say far far less

as for declared or undeclared, if you know how to maximise your returns, it shouldnt matter what ratio

 

[Macca]

thanks Sanj.

my dilemmas is negotiating a business without firm financial records as all is done via cash sale.....

they are willing to let me try for 2 weeks with 10% deposit and if the sales doesn't match up then is fully refunded.....

I already checked the profit and loss statement , lease, wages and all is well.

Any other tips I should look out for when buying a business?

Are you looking at Tax figures ? If it is something they have cooked up with their accountant on a piece of paper then it is worthless IMO

If a shopfront business then sit outside for as long as possible, 2-3 days at least and count heads, make sure they are not all from the same family.

It is generally accepted that you pay on the tax figures plus add backs, funny money is not counted, you can't have it both ways.

I would agree that it is highly likely that some business groups are rife with black money and it would be reasonable to assume there is some skimming but you can't count on that.

I had a friend who was a business agent and I used to be his sounding board for "the numbers on this" I know of quite a few people that pumped and dumped their business.

Some businesses can change owners and keep on rolling but there are others that the owner or chef is "the business" and when they walk so do the customers

 

[DaveM]

Re a lawyer selection, really depends on if you want a larger firm or a small/single person firm. Both have their pro's and con's depending on the scale of the business purchase.

My commercial legal is handled by Michael at DibbsBarker which is a 300+ staff firm.

http://www.dibbsbarker.com/profile/Michael_Sutton.aspx

Otherwise you can try a good property/commercial lawyer I also use, Henry Packham 9410 3846

 

[BayView]

i disagree with this personally, if there is a good business with strong, reliable earnings and solid systems there is certainly value attached to the goodwill and systems imo.

if a business is making say $500k net including wages for managing the place (be it the owner doing it or an employee) why would someone sell it for plant and equiptment value?

I guess it's similar to buying a property in some respects.

If the house/business is for sale, but noone is buying, then a prospective purchaser can make all sorts of offers, and the Vendor might say yes.

It can depend on the Vendor's circumstances a fair bit - irrespective of the value of the property/business for sale.