Asbestos

Took possession of our new IP today.

So far we've removed some dodgy floorboards, removed an old kitchen cupboard, cut a piece around the (loose) fireplace surround so it will fit, and have started removing the bathroom in readiness for the new one.

Taking off the cement sheeting, I noticed a second layer behind. I am 99% sure it's asbestos, so I'll need to call someone in the AM to see how quickly they can come in and remove it for me. There's only about 3 sq. metres, but there's no way I'm touching the stuff.

So yeah, apart from that, I'm knackered. Back into it at 8AM tomorrow. The joys of it all.
 
Hi Dave,

Having met you recently, I’m sure that you’ll get past the asbestos issue pretty quickly.

Just one thing I picked up from the “Reno Kings”: The interest is only tax deductible if the property is leased or genuinely available for rent.

So get your property manager to put a “For Rent” sign up out the front straight away. You may not be ready to hold open-inspections, but if a prospective tenant were to see the sign and make an application, I’m sure you’d consider it. They could even move in at a rate that’s reduced until the repairs are complete.


Regards – Ben
 
We have a house next door that was coated in asbestos type sheeting... it looks like a fake brick with grey/pink colour... they removed the asbestos sheets about 3 weeks ago but it made me scared for us and my pets... had to seal most gaps around the house and left all doors and windows closed during the removal and for a few days after.

I hope no dust floated around...
 
Was it removed by professionals, with proper precautions?

I got really annoyed several years ago. We had just paid extra to have our lead paint removed with a you-beaut vacuum sander for our childrens' and neighbours' safety. A few months later, our neighbours had their house sanded prior to painting (old house, lead paint). No vacuum, dust flying everywhere, including up into our house via the old enclosed verandah.

No matter how careful you are, you cannot control the stupidity of others.
 
Hi guys

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's concerns but from what I can see the people who have developed asbestosis or other asbestos-related problems were those that were standing in the stuff everyday for a long time inhaling vast quantities. When you read reports these guys talk about how they were covered in the stuff all the time, working in enclosed spaces without as much as dust masks etc. This is quite different from the occasional contact most of us will have knowingly or unknowingly while walking around, gardening etc.

I'm careful with the stuff and make sure it's wet when working near it, don't sand it etc. and have had experts removing it when needed. But like most things in small doses you have to be very unlucky for anything to happen. It's good to be careful but asbestos in an IP just demands a bit more care, it's not the end of the world.

Cheers

kaf
 
actually Kaf you couldn't be more wrong. I should know as I have seen my mother in law die from this hideous disease (or is it a murder weapon of James Hardie?) and she had no known exposure to asbestos. There was no obvious person to sue, not that money matters one iota when you are dead in your 50's. You may be surprised how many everyday people contract the disease.... with the numbers anticipated to balloon significantly. the stuff is all around us.
 
actually Kaf you couldn't be more wrong. I should know as I have seen my mother in law die from this hideous disease (or is it a murder weapon of James Hardie?) and she had no known exposure to asbestos. There was no obvious person to sue, not that money matters one iota when you are dead in your 50's. You may be surprised how many everyday people contract the disease.... with the numbers anticipated to balloon significantly. the stuff is all around us.

Thanks for that Ausprop - I didn't know that, all the cases I've followed were people in close contact with the stuff. Sorry to hear about your mum-in-law - but surely she must have been around the stuff, is it extremely common where she lived?

I know a lot of people who have renovated and sawed the stuff off unsecured etc. when they didn't know it was unsafe and they are worried. I guess my point is that with most things basic precaution will prevent a lot of problems (once you know about it). Also from what I hear not touching it (if not needed) is often better than removing it as this will cause more rather than less exposure. Happy to be corrected on this one too.

Cheers

kaf
 
well she grew up in Perth, lived in typical suburbs etc. she suspected it came from a flaky ceiling of a bank (prominent WA bank) that she worked at, but it was 30 years earlier and the building long gone. There was no way of knowing and as her specialist pointed out, you can just walk down the street past a fence and cop a particle. It's just luck, bad luck.

I spent a lot of time around my dad as he built a beach house out of the stuff and wouldn't be surprised if it is in the post for me as well. no intention of sitting that one out if it happens... drowning on your own fluids looked to be one of the worst ways to die IMO
 
Kaf,

It only takes one asbestos fibre to get caught in your lungs. It's not like you overdose on the stuff like you do with lead. Having said that, if you are around the stuff everyday then you are more likely to get that one unlucky fibre caught. So minimizing contact with it helps but it doesn't totally safeguard you.

Andrew

Hi guys

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's concerns but from what I can see the people who have developed asbestosis or other asbestos-related problems were those that were standing in the stuff everyday for a long time inhaling vast quantities. When you read reports these guys talk about how they were covered in the stuff all the time, working in enclosed spaces without as much as dust masks etc. This is quite different from the occasional contact most of us will have knowingly or unknowingly while walking around, gardening etc.Cheers

kaf
 
Thanks for the input guys. So given that the free-flying stuff is the dangerous bit wouldn't you be better leaving it where it is rather than pulling it out?

Coming back to the original post if it's hidden behind walls aren't you better off covering it up rather than having it ripped out (even by "experts") as this is more likely to result in free fibers in your house / environment than leaving it well covered (I guess that's the key) where it is? I'm just not sure getting rid of it at all cost (as many people are doing due to the fear of asbestos) isn't causing more danger rather than less?

Cheers

kaf
 
There was a case in Brisbane of a nurse who died of mesothelioma (sp? - the asbestos disease). The court accepted that she had inhaled possibly a single fibre as she was walking to work past a hospital block that was being renovated, and Workers Compensation was paid. Not much consolation when you are dead!!

Marg
thinking of all the old fibro sheets we took great glee in smashing up back in the 1960s.......
 
Kaf, certainly it would be better to just cover it back over but it sounds like Dave needs it moved out of the way which would then mean it should be removed completely.

It's an interesting subject. I don't miss out on too much sleep over stuff like that. I can get hit by a bus crossing the road but I still cross the road without concern but if I made a full time hobby out of crossing the road full time then I would be concerned. :)

As mentioned earlier though I suggest keeping it wet when moving/removing it. I can certainly remembering smashing old asbestos pipes as a kid. What fun that was!

Just found the attached picture showing deaths in America attributed to asbestos. More common than I thought. Must be careful crossing the road tonight.

Gools
 

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Just found quite a good overview of asbestos-related diseases here http://www.abc.net.au/health/library/stories/2004/04/29/1828906.htm - so Asbestosis is the one you get with massive exposure while Mesothelioma is the one you can get from very little. Sounds as if you are actually safer while consciously working with the stuff (with a suitable mask) than walking down the street :eek:.

kaf

Not according to this statement from your quoted article:

"Unfortunately, through ignorance, many home renovators, home maintenance and building workers don't realise the dangers of exposure and may only learn of it – if at all – once the building work is finished. Prolonged exposure, where the building work goes on for months or years, carries the greatest risk. For home renovators, a brief one-off exposure is very low risk."
 
Took possession of our new IP today.

So far we've removed some dodgy floorboards, removed an old kitchen cupboard, cut a piece around the (loose) fireplace surround so it will fit, and have started removing the bathroom in readiness for the new one.

Taking off the cement sheeting, I noticed a second layer behind. I am 99% sure it's asbestos, so I'll need to call someone in the AM to see how quickly they can come in and remove it for me. There's only about 3 sq. metres, but there's no way I'm touching the stuff.

Dave,
My first post but you have raised a good point and found something that most of us will come across either in an IP or PPOR in our lifetime.
Our circumstances are that we have just purchased a 1950s fibro home on the coast and aside from the exterior its laundry,kitchen and bathroom all have asbestos fibro lining, I have left the sheets up and sprayed with Bondcrete to seal and contain the sheeting then relined with concrete sheeting, I have removed 2m2 and disposed of in accordance with NSW requirements.
Though not the ideal situation it is an acceptable solution at this time as we are looking at redeveloping in approx 5 years and will leave it to the professionals to remove then.
In the meantime any tradesmen etc who are intending on performing works onsite are notified of the location of the asbestos and just like the commercial properties I manage need to provide Safe Work Method Statement and Job Safety Analysis to cover their task---it costs no more but scares off the backyard boys after a quick buck.

Just a tip if you don't have the appropriate protective gear and confidence along with knowledge on how to to get rid of the stuff then don't do it. However if you need to drill a hole for example you treat area with Bondcrete (or equivalent) then mark the hole, spray on some shaving cream over the intended location and drill slowly, the shaving cream contains the fibres, after this you treat the hole with Bondcrete.

I know that you mentioned you had the pro's come in to do your job, was this expensive ($/m2 or $/kg or do and charge), I would be interested in seeing what the market rate is.

Enjoy the fun anyway, I redid my bathroom by myself and it was a killer but $1000 later and 8 days it all looks great.

Cheers


Peter
 
Thanks for the input guys. So given that the free-flying stuff is the dangerous bit wouldn't you be better leaving it where it is rather than pulling it out?

Coming back to the original post if it's hidden behind walls aren't you better off covering it up rather than having it ripped out (even by "experts") as this is more likely to result in free fibers in your house / environment than leaving it well covered (I guess that's the key) where it is? I'm just not sure getting rid of it at all cost (as many people are doing due to the fear of asbestos) isn't causing more danger rather than less?

Cheers

kaf
KAF,If the wall is hidden why not just paint all the surface area and seal the wall section,:eek: dont touch it in any way,just wet all the surface area,paint the area several times,then reset the wall area's,the interesting part about the blue sky mine death/ASBESTOS is that most A=C systems in most high rise buildings prior to 1990 still had most of the heater banks,that's the systems that heat the high-rise buildings in winter were all asbestos lined so when you think about it the Blue Death was pumping out day in day out in winter time,something to think about for all the high end comm building owners,and something to check out very carefully for the high end people that use this site,it may not happen,but it will only take one test case and from the legal people that i sometimes talk too, there is several going
down this road as we talk,be very carefull..imho..willair..
 
An update...the asbestos removalist is coming tomorrow at 7.30AM. Cost is $400

Seems like a lot, but I'd rather spend $400 than regret it down the track.

We found a wasps nest today :D

So much joy. But I wouldn't have it any other way. We'll keep battling on.
 
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