Assistance with subdivision - questions

Hi all,

New to this forum, long time lurker! Young and interested in taking the plunge into investment properties and have an opportunity to test the waters so to speak. My old man (and us) have been sitting on an old weatherboard home that we used to lease out until certain personal circumstances dictated that we were to move into this home as a PPOR. As such, we have extensively renovated the interior to make it liveable so to speak.

The clincher is that this property in SE Melbourne, bought for around $75k 10 years ago, has increased massively in value to at least $650-700k (based on comparable sales) due to the size of the land - nearly 1000m^2. However, this space is currently not doing a huge deal and is, in fact, a pain in the **** to mow!

So we are looking to build a medium-high density unit development. We engaged a mob called Brutal Art to do an initial assessment of the site, and they suggested that we could either build 2x 2BR units and 1x 1BR unit OR 4x 1BR units at comparable cost ($400k + 20% contingency, excluding external and design fees)

Question 1: As we intend to lease the properties out (i.e., own all the properties), which will be the most profitable / less risky (in terms of vacancy) move given that it will be probably be positively geared for a while (land is fully paid)?

Question 2: Should we be engaging an architect or a draftsman for this work, given that it's not the world's simplest town planning proposal? As I understand, architects are more expensive (Brutal Art have suggested approximately $30,000 as their fee, end-to-end)? Given that costs are a consideration in this kind of venture, would it be better to engage a cheaper service?

Question 3: If the latter, can anyone recommend a draftsman who would be familiar with the Greater Dandenong council and their local planning schemes?

Question 4: As we intend to hold onto this property, do we need to create a owner's corporation (consisting solely of us)? If so, are there any special things to consider when creating this?

Question 5: Self-manage the property or get an agent to do it, given that we'll be living on the same lot for some time?

After this is all done, we'll have 4 IPs and stick to a 'build and hold' strategy and acquire more land/IPs to (hopefully) rapidly build a sizable portfolio.

Asides from the questions above, can anyone give me any further advice or gotchas that you'd like to share with a young (and reckless?) property developer wannabe like myself?
 
use an architect. They will be able to manage the entire process for you (town planning, design & construction). It will save you a lot of headaches.

Typicall they charge between 7-18% of building costs depending on the level of service you require.
1000sqm id be looking at putting 4 townhouses on it...
 
use an architect. They will be able to manage the entire process for you (town planning, design & construction). It will save you a lot of headaches.

Typicall they charge between 7-18% of building costs depending on the level of service you require.
1000sqm id be looking at putting 4 townhouses on it...

Is that the 4 x 1BR option (i.e., total of 4 townhouses + 1 unit)? It appears more profitable, but there are concerns that it'll be harder to lease out 1BR units? I'll have to do more research about rental demand in the area.

We fully intend to keep the existing 3BR home to live in however.
 
My development is small scale compared to this but i still engaged a planner. With the hassles i have been through im glad i did. Money well spent i believe.
 
Yes, a planner is different to an architect/draftsman. At a basic level the latter do the plans and the former know the local policies, however there is often crossover. A planning application requires both plans and a written report justifying it against the policies. A general rule (of course this doesn't always apply) is that you can either hire one person to do the whole planning process (architect/designer) or a draftsman and planner to work as a team. You mentioned you thought it wouldn't be the simplest town planning proposal, so I would make sure that there is a planner involved whoever you engage (draftperson or architect).

Best of Luck,
 
Find who the local "top gun" person in the Dandenong LGA is for the sort of development you propose and use them. They will know all the players and have all the contacts, you can't beat that.

As a planner, I had solid working relationships wth the local "top guns" in the LGA I worked in and it made my job (and often their application) run a lot smoother. Believe me, Planners like assessing the applications of people they are used to dealing with and can negotiate with easily.
 
Find who the local "top gun" person in the Dandenong LGA is for the sort of development you propose and use them. They will know all the players and have all the contacts, you can't beat that.

As a planner, I had solid working relationships wth the local "top guns" in the LGA I worked in and it made my job (and often their application) run a lot smoother. Believe me, Planners like assessing the applications of people they are used to dealing with and can negotiate with easily.

How would I go about working this out? A quick Google search hasn't helped out...
 
Question 2: Should we be engaging an architect or a draftsman for this work, given that it's not the world's simplest town planning proposal? As I understand, architects are more expensive (Brutal Art have suggested approximately $30,000 as their fee, end-to-end)? Given that costs are a consideration in this kind of venture, would it be better to engage a cheaper service?
Depends on the product you are trying to create. If it's simply to build some economical buildings to rent out for cashflow then you are probably after something that's cheap, and hence I would use a draftsman. Alternatively, if you're after something that will sell well and you are aiming for a target market then I would engage an architect.

Asides from the questions above, can anyone give me any further advice or gotchas that you'd like to share with a young (and reckless?) property developer wannabe like myself?

Make sure you've got the money/finance to see the project through before plunging in head-first. There are a lot of costs associated with building multiple units; often the land is the cheapest part of the project.

I assume that this is a battle-axe site (i.e. existing house at the front and proposed units at the back). If so then remember you need to have the existing house at the front looking as presentable as possible, to make your development attractive to future tenants & purchasers. I have seen sites locally where the developer has kept a scrappy house at the front and tried to sell townhouses off the plan at the back, and nobody wants to buy them. Much better to spend some money renovating the house at the front, or bowling the place over if it is ugly or too far gone.

Also remember that the professionals you engage as part of this project (architects, town planners, engineers etc) will comprise only a small portion of the overall project cost, so don't scrimp here.

How would I go about working this out? A quick Google search hasn't helped out...

One way you can find out who is active in you area is to go through the planning applications that have been lodged with your local council. To do this, jump on to SPEAR, click on 'Public Search' and select 'City of Greater Dandenong' as the responsible authority. This will give you a list of most planning applications that the council is dealing with. Change the view to 100 applications per page, and sort by type.

Now go through the list. The type of applications you are looking for are 'Planning Permit: Dwelling...'. Click on the address and it will bring up details about the project; make a note of the applicant (e.g. XXX Architects). After going through the applications you'll start to see the same names again and again; these are the companies you should have a chat to. Also, for some applications you can view the documents that have been submitted with the application, so you can see what is being proposed.
 
Very helpful - thanks.

It was interesting to note that there was only one firm represented in SPEAR - STRAIT-LINE Builders & Drafters Pty Ltd. I might see what their rates are like...but then again I suppose architectural fees are minor, looking at these back of the envelope figures.

It will be a battle-axe style development with economical units that will be used to rent out for cash flow (it will be positively geared against the amount to be lent to build) which will be used for further investment purposes or building a PPOR (or something, we'll work it out when we get there - this is our first dip into the investment world so we're testing the waters so to speak).

I'm a bit more worried about the public open spaces contribution actually (I'm just going to assume that they will want the whole 5%).

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Just to condense what kind of questions I still have in mind...

My options are (at the moment):
Retain 3br (PPOR)
Build 2br (2x)
Build 1br

OR

Retain 3br (PPOR)
Build 1br (4x)

where comparable rents for 1br townhouses are $190-$210 and 2br are $250-$300. These are based on distance to town centre / transport only, and does not consider the fact that the existing properties are in fact older.

If I'm intending to rent the properties out for maximal cash flow, given that the vacancy rate in this suburb in 1.5% or so, the obvious answer would be go with the 4x 1BR. However, when I'm looking at sale data, it looks like the market is looking for 2BR (there is a pricing anomaly if considering the relationship between bedroom : price to be linear [$270k, $370k, $400k respectively]). Will this impact on cash flows in the future (i.e., will the rental market follow this trend?).

There are also a number of studio apartment developments going up (one of them has over 50!). In your experience, does the market differentiate between studio apartments (or even 1br) and units? Or is the market looking like it'll get heavily diluted and that we should stick to 2BR?
 
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