Australia: All is good

Dont worry my fellow australians, all is good with the economy, your tax dollards are being well spent.

After all things are so good for the average australian, that all australians can donate $500m towards Indonesian schools.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/austral...pgrade-indonesian-schools-20101102-17cdh.html

so please no gripes about how anyone in australia is 'doing it tough'.
The avearge australian can feel proud that there hard earned money is being put to a good use.
 
I feel as one of the more 'wealthy" countries in this region we have a role to play in influencing the policitical and social fabric to increase the chance that our values are heard.

Having lived in Jakarta for a little while I find its a country just like ours, generally full of human beings with families who have great tolerance and love for each other and others. There are some very negative influences on the political/ religious scene that need to be balanced by more moderate input. Starting at the school end is not a bad plan.

Diplomacy is all good and well, but a well wielded cheque book doesnt hurt either.

ta
rolf
 
....I find its a country just like ours, generally full of human beings with families who have great tolerance and love for each other and others.

^ ^ ^ what he said.
Even if it is out of our own self-interest (and not generousity of heart), it can't hurt our future relationships when these kids grow up and run their country.
 
^ ^ ^ what he said.
Even if it is out of our own self-interest (and not generousity of heart), it can't hurt our future relationships when these kids grow up and run their country.

Agreed. Education is the best weapon against religious (and other) extremeism. It is why we will need another 20 years in Afganistan to defeat the Mudj.
 
Problem is that alot of the extremism is being taught in schools.

Where else are you going to find young impressionable mind to mould
 
Strategic play.

The government has a percentage of budget which is devoted to aide and developmental programs for developing countries. It is less than 1% of budget.

Providing schools is is the best way to fight extremism, don't you think Australia will have a little say in the curriculum, whether you see it or not?

Also fun fact: Educating women has proven to be the best way of reducing population growth. Maybe that has factored in their decision, giving it to a pop of 227 million packed onto a tiny landmass next to our doorstep.

You would be naive to believe governments don't use their aide money strategically. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the common rule of 'here's your 500 million in development money, now you can only cash this cheque in to Australian builders, suppliers, designers etc.
 
Also fun fact: Educating women has proven to be the best way of reducing population growth. Maybe that has factored in their decision, giving it to a pop of 227 million packed onto a tiny landmass next to our doorstep.

spot on - and backed by significant data. no only do they have less children but educated women also tend to stay in their community to help others (doctors, nursing, teaching, running small businesses), whilst educated men tend to leave their community to seek fortune elsewhere.

that is why i only sponsor girls thru my child sponsorships.
 
Agreed. Education is the best weapon against religious (and other) extremeism. It is why we will need another 20 years in Afganistan to defeat the Mudj.

ding - ding -fokkin' - ding.

the war on terror can be fought so much better with schools and communities surrounded by the military rather than bombing "hideouts" and "engaging militants".
 
The war on terror will have about the same success as the war on drugs. ie: none.
Its an American invention to justify whatever means the feel like at the time.
 
I don't agree giving emerging nations money for education is the first priority.

It is much more important to ask who has power, and the force to retain it.

- The west has been throwing money at Africa for at least 100 years and the scale and number of atrocities has risen.
- Tibet are reasonably well educated but the Chinese still just walked in.
- The educated of Iraq and Iran have had to seek refuge. A small religio/militant minority can overwhelm a passive educated majority easily.
- Consider Burma. An overwhelming majority of Burmese want Aung Sung Suu Kyi for President, but the military dictators will not surrender power.

Aid dollars make their way to the corrupt to maintain power.

There's a strong argument that the more educated people are, the less prepared they are to take a stand and fight oppression. So much easier to seek asylum in Australia.

I cannot think of one emerging nation that has rid itself of tyrants and oppressors by first educating the masses, in the days of modern weaponry.

When many developed nations attained democracy, commoners could take on the forces of tyrants fairly equal handed. In the last 70 years that has become increasingly difficult. A farmer's sickle is no match for an automatic machine gun and cheap grenades, and the sociopathic conditioning of a tyrant's troops.
 
I don't agree giving emerging nations money for education is the first priority.

It is much more important to ask who has power, and the force to retain it.

- The west has been throwing money at Africa for at least 100 years and the scale and number of atrocities has risen.
- Tibet are reasonably well educated but the Chinese still just walked in.
- The educated of Iraq and Iran have had to seek refuge. A small religio/militant minority can overwhelm a passive educated majority easily.
- Consider Burma. An overwhelming majority of Burmese want Aung Sung Suu Kyi for President, but the military dictators will not surrender power.

Aid dollars make their way to the corrupt to maintain power.

There's a strong argument that the more educated people are, the less prepared they are to take a stand and fight oppression. So much easier to seek asylum in Australia.

I cannot think of one emerging nation that has rid itself of tyrants and oppressors by first educating the masses, in the days of modern weaponry.

When many developed nations attained democracy, commoners could take on the forces of tyrants fairly equal handed. In the last 70 years that has become increasingly difficult. A farmer's sickle is no match for an automatic machine gun and cheap grenades, and the sociopathic conditioning of a tyrant's troops.

Agree.

Indonesian officials = masters of corruption.

There are lots of examples of corruption and poor value for money gained from our aid to third world countries.

Much better to give smaller amounts directly to trusted groups/individuals who you're able to be better monitor and who have a good track record.

If schools couldn't get value for money under the BER scheme here, Indonesia (the country of bribes at every level) really have no chance.
 
its all well and good to take the high moral ground with supporting handouts such as this but we have gven indonesia plenty previously..............

- the country is full of corruption.

- the country has taken a half ar$ed stand on terrorism.

- and schools in some villages are used to brain wash its youth into terrorism.

if you think $150 mill will make one scrap of difference then sorry!

the poor buggers that went through that tsunami have hardly seen any money given to them from the world.......

i trust the indonesian govt as much as i trust next doors german shepherd....

wheres all the counts and balances with money given in the past??

can someone advise me where i can source this?

look after our own Australians first, then when everyone is comfortable here and theres some left over then consider giving overseas..............walk down any major Aust citys main street, you wont have to look far to see people badly in need of help...

on this occasion: us first, the rest overseas later....

i can sleep well with that...
 
Agree.

Indonesian officials = masters of corruption.

There are lots of examples of corruption and poor value for money gained from our aid to third world countries.

Much better to give smaller amounts directly to trusted groups/individuals who you're able to be better monitor and who have a good track record.

If schools couldn't get value for money under the BER scheme here, Indonesia (the country of bribes at every level) really have no chance.

I thought was Greece !

can you say "fakelaki " ?
 
I thought was Greece !

can you say "fakelaki " ?


Corruption happens whenever there aren't safeguards in place to try to prevent it from occuring, hence the differences in countries in the extent to which it occurs.

It's not only in third world countries that this happens in.

In some places it's so ingrained that it's an accepted system of practice.
 
see red, the yanks are.

I don't agree giving emerging nations money for education is the first priority.

It is much more important to ask who has power, and the force to retain it.

take the power and enforce the education. my point regading the military defending communities surrounding a school.

- The west has been throwing money at Africa for at least 100 years and the scale and number of atrocities has risen.

...in aid. see "indonesia" and add tribal elements.

- Tibet are reasonably well educated but the Chinese still just walked in.

Tibetans are predominantly buddhist and have minimal military or worldstage political clout to combat the Chinese.

- The educated of Iraq and Iran have had to seek refuge. A small religio/militant minority can overwhelm a passive educated majority easily.

unfortunately this is a sad state of affairs.

- Consider Burma. An overwhelming majority of Burmese want Aung Sung Suu Kyi for President, but the military dictators will not surrender power.

because of.....aid. see "indonesia" and add jerusel-astien hatred.

Aid dollars make their way to the corrupt to maintain power.

There's a strong argument that the more educated people are, the less prepared they are to take a stand and fight oppression. So much easier to seek asylum in Australia.

I cannot think of one emerging nation that has rid itself of tyrants and oppressors by first educating the masses, in the days of modern weaponry.

could be because the US doesn't allow it, they assasinate democratically elected presidents and install dictators to suppress legitimate regimes. see Chile, Panama, Iraq, Argentina, Mexico, Angola, Georgia, Turkey, Egypt....

When many developed nations attained democracy, commoners could take on the forces of tyrants fairly equal handed. In the last 70 years that has become increasingly difficult. A farmer's sickle is no match for an automatic machine gun and cheap grenades, and the sociopathic conditioning of a tyrant's troops.

yeah Halliburton have a fair bit to answer for, along with the US foreign policy.
 
I cannot think of one emerging nation that has rid itself of tyrants and oppressors by first educating the masses, in the days of modern weaponry.

could be because the US doesn't allow it, they assasinate democratically elected presidents and install dictators to suppress legitimate regimes. see Chile, Panama, Iraq, Argentina, Mexico, Angola, Georgia, Turkey, Egypt....

When many developed nations attained democracy, commoners could take on the forces of tyrants fairly equal handed. In the last 70 years that has become increasingly difficult. A farmer's sickle is no match for an automatic machine gun and cheap grenades, and the sociopathic conditioning of a tyrant's troops.

yeah Halliburton have a fair bit to answer for, along with the US foreign policy.


Surely that's not true.. not the US of A - they are our allies you know


I thought it was as simple as weg suggested

- the country (INDONESIA) is full of corruption.

i trust the indonesian govt as much as i trust next doors german shepherd....

wheres all the counts and balances with money given in the past??
can someone advise me where i can source this?

look after our own Australians first, then when everyone is comfortable here and theres some left over then consider giving overseas..............walk down any major Aust citys main street, you wont have to look far to see people badly in need of help...

on this occasion: us first, the rest overseas later....


Isn't "When we reach utopia" an quicker way of saying the above ?
 
its all well and good to take the high moral ground with supporting handouts such as this but we have gven indonesia plenty previously..............

- the country is full of corruption.

- the country has taken a half ar$ed stand on terrorism.

- and schools in some villages are used to brain wash its youth into terrorism.

if you think $150 mill will make one scrap of difference then sorry!

the poor buggers that went through that tsunami have hardly seen any money given to them from the world.......

i trust the indonesian govt as much as i trust next doors german shepherd....

wheres all the counts and balances with money given in the past??

can someone advise me where i can source this?

look after our own Australians first, then when everyone is comfortable here and theres some left over then consider giving overseas..............walk down any major Aust citys main street, you wont have to look far to see people badly in need of help...

on this occasion: us first, the rest overseas later....

i can sleep well with that...

Yikes! What a load of bollocks.

Why do you feel closer to your actual neighbour than your trans-continental one? I can think of a few reasons.

I walk down the street everyday and I don't see the same people.
There really is no excuse for needing help in Australia, people are given every opportunity to avoid poverty, and failing that, there's govt handouts.

What do you think causes corruption in 3rd world countries? Poverty.
How do you eliminate poverty? Education. That's pretty simplified but its the right direction.
 
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