Bali Nine

Should the Bali nine be granted clemency

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 34.3%
  • No

    Votes: 34 48.6%
  • Yes due to the AFP's involvement

    Votes: 5 7.1%
  • No, they were going to do it anyway

    Votes: 7 10.0%

  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .
Thinking back too the mid 1980's when "Barlow-Chambers" faced hanging in Malaysia', so many world leaders from England-Australia-USA,everywhere asked for them to be spared,and that was for 140 grams of heroin,the Bali nine was way above that amount in kilos,and if that white death was to have got onto the streets of Australia the damage done to families would have been massive,i have seen this first hand private school educated young people that get in with the wrong people and their first hit is just a slow form of suicide,some can hide it very well but the end is always the same,..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0t0EW6z8a0
 
Make no mistake, persons involved in trafficking 8.3 kilograms of heroin are upper echelon players. I don't believe in the death penalty for the mules. They are the bottom of the food chain and the organisers usually prey on weak people with drug problem to do the dirty work for them.

In the case of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, I believe they are more than the mules, they are involved in the upper part of the network that was set to profit on the misery which is drug addiction. Although probably not the King of the network they must have been up there and trusted by the king of the syndicate.

Do we really believe this was their first heroin transaction?

This matter has been dragging on for a decade, if they were sentenced to death and the punishment was carried out within six months they would have been forgotten about by now.

Although I feel a little sympathy for the family of these condemned men, the law for trafficking drugs in Indonesia is death. I feel no animosity towards the Indonesian government whatsoever for the way they have handled these two major drug traffickers. It's just a shame the other people in their network back here in Australia, the other people who were going to profit from importing 8.3 kilograms of heroin also couldn't be put to death for their involvement.
 
Make no mistake, persons involved in trafficking 8.3 kilograms of heroin are upper echelon players. I don't believe in the death penalty for the mules. They are the bottom of the food chain and the organisers usually prey on weak people with drug problem to do the dirty work for them.

In the case of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, I believe they are more than the mules, they are involved in the upper part of the network that was set to profit on the misery which is drug addiction. Although probably not the King of the network they must have been up there and trusted by the king of the syndicate.

Do we really believe this was their first heroin transaction?

This matter has been dragging on for a decade, if they were sentenced to death and the punishment was carried out within six months they would have been forgotten about by now.

Although I feel a little sympathy for the family of these condemned men, the law for trafficking drugs in Indonesia is death. I feel no animosity towards the Indonesian government whatsoever for the way they have handled these two major drug traffickers. It's just a shame the other people in their network back here in Australia, the other people who were going to profit from importing 8.3 kilograms of heroin also couldn't be put to death for their involvement.

The two have already admitted to being involed in 2 operstions in different countries

Who knows how many more they were involved in

Personally i only believe in capital punshiment for forst degree murder . But my opinion is irrelevant to the current situation
 
well, it looks they are about to be moved to death row prison/island,

once moved, as short as 72 hours before they are shot

522389-5a11a7fc-b1a3-11e4-ad32-d6d14632da09.jpg


poor dad!
 
so awful for the mothers

Then execute people who manufacture cigarettes- they knowingly make a product that kills people.

Executing human beings is barbaric. In the case of these men I feel it is such a horrible thing to cause such pain to their mothers and siblings. Punish them with a long prison sentence. And they were actually smuggling drugs out of Indonesia and into Australia but I do not care anymore because junkies will always find something to get high on.


I am just thinking it is their Mum's who are going to cop the most pain and all they did was try to raise kids in a new country and they must feel they have failed. They didn't and they do not deserve this pain.
 
Whether you agree with the death penalty for these two Australians or not, let us all hope that the shortness of their lives and the pain that they have inflicted upon their families causes others to stop and think before undertaking the same journey of drug trafficking.
 
Whether you agree with the death penalty for these two Australians or not, let us all hope that the shortness of their lives and the pain that they have inflicted upon their families causes others to stop and think before undertaking the same journey of drug trafficking.

I can agree with this, Chilliblue.
 
And of course; the story won't end with their executions;

The media will milk it for at least another 3 months with stories about the families, the suburbs where the lived, their friends, testimonials about how they'd rehabilitated themselves, and on and on and on.

Ratings......:rolleyes:
 
There is something hypocritical about Indonesia being so determined to execute Australians Sukumaran and Chan when

"Indonesian President Joko Widodo had instructed that "optimum protection" be offered to 229 Indonesian citizens sentenced to death overseas - including those charged with drug offences - while in the same breath vowing to execute drug smugglers in Indonesia.

"Optimum protection" includes hiring professional lawyers to defend them, holding meetings with family members and seeking amnesty from the heads of states or victims' families.

Many Indonesian workers, mostly from Aceh, have been prosecuted in Malaysian courts for trafficking drugs and marijuana to the neighbouring country and many death row convicts have been already executed.

A petition organised by the Mercy Campaign calling on the men's lives to be spared has been signed by almost 160,000 people".

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...ister-of-foreign-affairs-20150214-13ercy.html
 
The Crescent Moon drug syndicate supplied the drugs to the Australian syndicate the two condemned prisoners were involved in running.
Normally you would expect such people would be protected by corrupt officials and law enforcement officers in Indonesia. Perhaps the AFP tipoff to their Indonesian counterparts threw a spanner in the works.
Apparently Joko Wikodo has a wish to do something about the corruption and drug trade in his country.

Bali high, Bali low, an article:

Renae Lawrence, one of the Bali nine, has revealed information about the drug syndicate, naming names and providing details of a smuggling and distribution network that is far bigger than police at first thought. Jakarta-based narcotics police say the so-called Crescent Moon syndicate supplied the heroin that was strapped to the Australians, and is known to have shipped large quantities of heroin from Burma's Golden Triangle over many years, much of it to Indonesia.

The Bali nine operation was part of a sophisticated operation that attempted to move up to 10 mules, each carrying an average of two kilograms of heroin, into Sydney from Bali every three months. This article describes the investigation into the the syndicate allegedly led by 24-year-old Sydney man Myuran Sukumaran. The shooting of Man Singh Ghale, a Nepalese-born trafficker with links to both to Sukumaran's syndicate and Crescent Moon, raised suspicions that corrupt authorities were protecting the supply network; however a team of six Australian agents in Bali say they are confident that Indonesia's National Narcotics Bureau, which has taken charge of the investigations into Crescent Moon, is determined to crush it.


About the middle man in Indonesia, Man Singh Ghale, who was shot in the leg whilst handcuffed then finished off "whilst escaping".

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dr...mation-to-grave/2005/07/08/1120704565028.html

Indonesian officers know dead men do not tell tales, writes Matthew Moore in Jakarta.

When the nine Australians in Bali go on trial to save their lives in coming months, the man who allegedly helped supply them with 8.6 kilograms of heroin will not be around to reveal what he knew about them, their deal or police involvement in Indonesia's drug trade.

Since late April, Man Singh Ghale's body has been rotting in the city cemetery in Menteng Pulo, in South Jakarta, after officers from Indonesia's anti-drugs agency cuffed his hands behind his back, shot him in the right leg and later shot him dead.

On April 28, the day after the execution, General Sutanto, then head of the drug agency and now the country's police chief, went to Bali to explain to journalists that his men had no choice but to kill Ghale. He had been shot because he had tried to resist arrest when they entered his house on Jakarta's outskirts, the general said.

The evidence from neighbours who watched the arrest, and from others who know Ghale's history, says the opposite and suggests police had their own reasons for disposing of a man who was one of the big drug dealers in Indonesia.

How many times police shot Ghale, originally from Nepal, is one of the many mysteries about the slightly pudgy, shortish man aged about 30.

According to the Nepalese embassy in Burma, which has responsibility for Indonesia, and Nepal's Department of Foreign Affairs in Kathmandu, Ghale was married to a Nepalese woman, Sita, and they had two children. She lives in the small town of Dhading in the Kathmandu valley and travelled to the capital to try to bring her husband's body home from Indonesia so she could cremate it. Ram Singh Thapa, from the embassy in Burma, said his office had requested the remains, which might reveal how many times Ghale was shot. He is still waiting for an answer.

Doctors who carried out the autopsy are too frightened to say how many times Ghale was shot or where the bullets entered his body. Senior Superintendent Indradi Tanos, of the narcotics division at police headquarters, refused to disclose the contents of the report. "Why are you asking this?" he asked. "You are beyond the limits. Whose side are you on? Have you seen the victims of heroin, what these [drug dealers] people have done?"

At a Bali media conference announcing Ghale's death, General Sutanto said police had captured him twice before. The first time was in 1999, when he was caught with a firearm living in Jakarta's outskirts in Bekasi. He was jailed but did not stay inside long. Police captured him again on October 28 last year when he was back in Bekasi. He escaped two days later.

No explanation has been provided of how a man known as one of Indonesia's biggest drug dealers was able to slip out of the Jakarta police centre. Even more unusual is that several weeks after he fled custody he returned to Bekasi, where police say a local man agreed to rent a house on his behalf. Then there is the fact that 10 days after the nine Australians were arrested in Bali, Ghale had made no effort to flee his house.

The Australian Federal Police Commissioner, Mick Keelty, said Ghale was "directly linked" to the nine Australians. "Detailed examination of travel records and communications led us to the deceased," he said. Indonesian police told the Herald these "communications" included emails to Ghale from one of the Bali nine, believed to be Andrew Chan.

Despite those links, Ghale continued his extrovert lifestyle, playing his loud Indian music and sometimes singing karaoke with the two women who shared his house. The women were known to neighbours by their aliases. One, called Siti Komariyah, is believed to be Nepalese. The other, one of the last of many young Indonesian women in Ghale's life, was called Khusnul. The Herald has been unable to contact them to check claims they were linked to the police.

Police have not said how they came to find Ghale's house, but sources familiar with the case believe Ghale never really escaped. Rather, they say police allowed him to operate under close surveillance, letting him set up drug deals because they wanted a slice of the money.

In Indonesia people have to pay to get government jobs. Jobs in the narcotics section have long demanded the highest entry prices because it is regarded as a prime "wet area", with lots of money sloshing around.

General Sutanto admitted to Tempo magazine this week that police in drugs cases regularly confiscated any money they found and were allowed to keep some for their personal use.

When Ghale was killed, police say, they found a handgun, 750 grams of heroin, 280 grams of cocaine and some ecstasy under his bed. There was no mention of a large amount of cash some believe Ghale had stashed.

His death was hardly surprising in a country where drug dealers and other criminals often die while supposedly trying to escape.

General Sutanto linked Ghale with the January 2000 arrest at Jakarta Airport of three Indonesians who were attempting to smuggle about 15 kilograms of heroin to London via Hong Kong. He did not mention that within hours of grabbing the three, police raided a house in South Jakarta and killed all five people inside.

An unidentified policeman said one of the deceased had a gun and had fired at police, none of whom was injured. The officer leading the raid told The Jakarta Post it was "simply a follow-up" to the airport arrests. The paper said one of the men shot was married to one of two Indonesian women arrested earlier that day.

A fortnight later, police raided another Jakarta house where they shot dead five more people suspected of drug dealing. Again they claimed they had been threatened by a gun. Once again, no police were injured.

In the indictments against the three arrested at the airport, and in the court case where they were all sentenced to death, there was no mention of Ghale. Although Ghale is believed to have moved heroin from Thailand and into Indonesia since the mid- to late-1990s, his activities first came to police attention in 2001 when another Nepalese drug courier was caught in a Washington airport and apparently revealed details of Ghale's operation.

By then, Ghale was organising couriers from Thailand and Indonesia to use false Malaysian and other passports to take heroin to Europe, North and South America, according to several sources. He is believed to have had partners in India and Singapore, with the most senior people based in Thailand, where Ghale was well known to police.

The US Drug Enforcement Agency was also long aware of Ghale's activities, although the US Justice Department said there was no warrant in the US for his arrest when he was killed.

Apart from Ghale himself, the other person who might have revealed details of his operation was released from police custody.

Superintendent Tanos said a Thai woman called Cherry Likit Banakorn was the one who delivered heroin to the nine Australians in Denpasar. "Cherry came twice to Indonesia carrying the heroin, five kilograms each trip," he said. The first time was when she flew from Phuket in Thailand to Singapore and on to Denpasar via Jakarta and Solo in Central Java.

Six days later, on April 14, she flew from Phuket via Singapore to Denpasar, where she stayed at the Seaview Hotel in Kuta. She left Bali on April 18, the day after the nine Australians were arrested, he said. Superintendent Tanos said Cherry, like others who worked with Ghale's syndicate, used a specially designed bag that was "X-ray-proof" to transport the drugs.

On her way back to Thailand she was stopped by police at the Thai-Malaysian border and held until Indonesian authorities arrived. But the Thais said their Indonesian colleagues did not have the paperwork to extradite Cherry and let her go.

With Cherry and Ghale gone, police are struggling to work out how the alleged deal with the Australians was put together, who was involved in Thailand and Indonesia, and what happened to the money. Some sources say it was set up in Australia with a middle-aged man known as Acuan, also called Jimmy, working with Andrew Chan.

But Indonesian police have complained that Chan has refused to co-operate. His ignorance, or refusal to co-operate, may help save Ghale's syndicate, but it is unlikely to save him and the eight other Australians.
 
I'm angry that the govt is jeopardising our national interests for the sake of 2 low life heroin traffickers that knew the rules of the game when they started to play. It's lose lose... had they succeeded, this scum would have killed the youth of this country with their poisonous bounty. Having failed, they now drag our nation into a bitter battle with our biggest neighbour. boo bloody hoo, pull the trigger already and let's focus on real issues, like busting up this bank cartel that has been created
 
I'm angry that the govt is jeopardising our national interests for the sake of 2 low life heroin traffickers that knew the rules of the game when they started to play. It's lose lose... had they succeeded, this scum would have killed the youth of this country with their poisonous bounty. Having failed, they now drag our nation into a bitter battle with our biggest neighbour. boo bloody hoo, pull the trigger already and let's focus on real issues, like busting up this bank cartel that has been created

+1

I thought the Federal Liberal government was going tough on Australians doing the wrong them overseas and expecting the government to bail them out (Julie Bishop last year).
 
You are comparing a legal activity of drinking a legally drug that is approved by the government against.

Whilst I am against the death penalty, you need to remember that these two knowingly took the risk of exporting an illegal drug in a country where it is illegal and people are being killed for the exact same reason for profit.

Morality does not come into play
 
You are comparing a legal activity of drinking a legally drug that is approved by the government against.

Whilst I am against the death penalty, you need to remember that these two knowingly took the risk of exporting an illegal drug in a country where it is illegal and people are being killed for the exact same reason for profit.

Morality does not come into play


Exactly. I enjoy drinking alcohol, as does just about everyone I know and hang out with. Sure it causes some problems, but mainly to the same people who would get on hard drugs and have a problem with harder drugs anyway.

Some of the best times of my life happened when I was drinking some grog, parties, sitting around a camp fire, catching a fish, and I even met my wife when I'd had a few too many.

Can't say the same about heroin, and even worse is this meth/ice stuff.


Get on with it Indonesia. This whole debarcle is turning into an embarrassing circus. I certainly wont be boycotting Indonesia.


See ya's.
 
chan is refusing to give up who he worked with or for because of retailiation to his family, which is fair enough.

as for execution, it seems its absolutely inevitable

but I think there are going to be hiccups until the deed is done

I dont agree with abott basically saying 'we gave you $1b in aid, you should think about that and future aid before exeucting them'
 
Indonesia have every right to execute them.

Abbott should be looking at the AFP and saying "deliver any more Australians into the hands of countries associated with the death penalty and you'll lose funding and have your targets raised".
 
Maybe the Indonesians should be saying to drug smugglers when caught, "Are you taking these drugs into Australia?..Not a problem, come this way, and escort them onto the plane".

Since this government doesn't think drug smuggling is so bad, let them bring it here. If the Indonesians want, they can notify the Australian airport to expect them.
 
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