even if this were close to being reasonable, what we 'reckon' is irrelevant. What is relevant is the law.
this is just your value judgment
Bali Nine
- Thread starter Scott No Mates
- Start date
even if this were close to being reasonable, what we 'reckon' is irrelevant. What is relevant is the law.
this is just your value judgment
apparently a bit of heroin is no big deal, a few kilos here and there, just a couple of kooky teenagers having the time of their lives. no different than a cup of starbucks really
I don't recall anyone saying anything along those lines.
The thing people oppose is the death penalty, no one is saying the crime wasn't serious. It was a serious crime and they deserve to go to jail for a long time, but no one should be murdered.
is decaffeinated coffee ok?
Never heard of coffee causing harm to anyone...unless racing to the bathroom is the cause of an accident.
I love all the 'keyboard warrior' remarks...it's usually when they can think of nothing else to say...
No one wants anyone to be executed, even the ones that agree with it.
They just want people to obey laws.
Everyone can understand the families of these 2 pleading for their lives.
We would all do the same for our own family.
Never heard of coffee causing harm to anyone...unless racing to the bathroom is the cause of an accident.
I love all the 'keyboard warrior' remarks...it's usually when they can think of nothing else to say...
No one wants anyone to be executed, even the ones that agree with it.
They just want people to obey laws.
Everyone can understand the families of these 2 pleading for their lives.
We would all do the same for our own family.
I don't recall anyone saying anything along those lines.
there's pages of the nonsense... including several comments saying they were just reckless teenagers. Other's have likened heroin to coffee. Others have suggested alcohol is more dangerous than any other drug.
the applicable law requires execution, not gaol for a long time. But again,this is not news to anyone
luckily no one will be murdered - at least not the two low life drug dealers anyway - so we can rest easy
One of you were saying all drug users (alcohol, caffeine, nicotine etc) are idiots and you'd personally shoot them in the heart for breaking the law. Yet you drink coffee which also affects your mind so it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
If one of those mules was your daughter, I wonder if you'd still think they deserve to die for breaking the law. Keep in mind that particular law could be changed next year if the govt changes their mind like we've seen recently in the U.S. But too bad, your kids broke the law when it was "illegal" so now they're dead. Forever.
If one of those mules was your daughter, I wonder if you'd still think they deserve to die for breaking the law. Keep in mind that particular law could be changed next year if the govt changes their mind like we've seen recently in the U.S. But too bad, your kids broke the law when it was "illegal" so now they're dead. Forever.
grief... firstly it's a big IF. but IF that was the case, you would not think they deserve it. you know why? because it's your daughter! can we move on from this emotional rubbish about "oh but if it was your son, daughter, granny, the lovely clown with the big hands performing at your daughter's 5th birthday"? It's really not helpful
Re Forever... so too are the deaths of the victims of drugs. And all the filth and crime that goes with it
It's helpful for those zombie sheep like yourself who say "well they broke the law so let's shoot them" without any consideration for their remorse and the benefit they provide others. Learn to think for yourself instead of blindly accepting the law is "correct". I said before the holocaust, slavery and segregation were all legal but that doesn't mean it's right.
If you can't see the difference between punishing your daughter or a stranger for the same crime then your judgement is clouded. The death of drug users and any crime that comes with it is a direct result of it being "illegal" so the govt is to blame but we know big pharma companies have too much influence in politics. Drug use and prostitution are victimless crimes.
If you can't see the difference between punishing your daughter or a stranger for the same crime then your judgement is clouded. The death of drug users and any crime that comes with it is a direct result of it being "illegal" so the govt is to blame but we know big pharma companies have too much influence in politics. Drug use and prostitution are victimless crimes.
no, the zombie sheep are the bleeding hearts and artists that go down the path of 'oh those poor kids, it was a crazy mistake, they didn't know what they were getting up to and heck we were all terrors at one time weren't we?? chuckle chuckle. anyway they are all reformed now, they won't do it again, so we should go over to that Indonesia place with all their funny laws in silly language and they can live by our standards. white man knows best, do as we say. If not we won't help next time you are drowning.'
you must surely see that being related to a criminal clouds your judgment of their guilt and appropriate punishment?
you must surely see that being related to a criminal clouds your judgment of their guilt and appropriate punishment?
No it's not. If you think killing people is bad then you shouldn't kill people - that's a pretty self evident point.
If you kill people while saying that killing people is bad, then you're just a hypocrite. That is a point of definition.
I haven't seen that. Just people making the obvious point that saying "dealing drugs" means different things to different people. And there is a world of difference between the death penalty and lifetime imprisonment, just as the prospects for rehabilitation are irrelevant to the point at hand.
Dealing "drugs" (however someone wants to define them) may kill someone. The death penalty "actually" kills them. The former is done by criminals - the dregs of society - the latter is done by the State as a reflection of what the best and brightest of society has to offer.
How anyone can sit here and debate which is worse is beyond me...
A few things to consider.
1. are no "harmless drugs" and this includes all legal and illegal drugs. It's just as possible to become addicted to legal ones, as illegal.
2.Heroin the drug that the Bali 9 were trafficking is not a "bad" drug. If you live in the UK, and some other countries and have surgery in hospital you are quite likley to be prescribed diamorphone for pain. Diamorphine aka heroin. Interestingly, of those that having been prescribed this post op (eg, broken hip or knee replacement) few go on to become drug addicts. No more than those rescribed other opiate based drigs. Apomorphine is actually a remarkable and effective pain reliever for ACUTE pain.
3. In Indonesia it is possible to buy codeine, without script from a pharmacy. Which, if you have minimal skills you can crush, refine and inject. the body doesn;t know the difference between codeine and morphine and heroin. Once it has been through the liver it's all the same.
4. Caffiene, in excess has been known to cause fatal arrhythmias. There are planty of documented cases.
5. Alcohol, surely don't have to go on about the harms of this legal drug.
6. , causes premature death of more than 50% of users. Interestingly, in Indonesia, more than 60% of men smoke. There are no laws like in Australia to protect others, so passive smoking rates are high. Extrapolating that out to the population as a whole tobacco would kill far more indonesians than all illicit drugs combined.
In my opinion....
This whole current death penanalty thing has nothing to do with worry about how a few international drug runners would effect the indonesian population. It is not about wrong or right. It is ALL about the image of new president, sending a message to the world and to Australia in particular that he means business, AND .... above all it may now be about saving FACE. There is absolutely no way the president can back down now from his hard line position without losing face. Politically, within his own country it would lose him so much credibility. If there was a way of saving face and letting them live, I feel it it would have happended already.
As well as Myaran and Andrew, also on the list for execution is a South Americal man who is ill with Schizophrenia and has not been receiving treatment. That in itself imust be a violation of human rights - that they would execute a mentally ill man.
We need to as a population to STOP going to Bali. This would send the strongest message possible. But would our nation of bogans give up their "island paradise" to send a powerful message to a president who appears to have lost his human compassion and dignity?
1. are no "harmless drugs" and this includes all legal and illegal drugs. It's just as possible to become addicted to legal ones, as illegal.
2.Heroin the drug that the Bali 9 were trafficking is not a "bad" drug. If you live in the UK, and some other countries and have surgery in hospital you are quite likley to be prescribed diamorphone for pain. Diamorphine aka heroin. Interestingly, of those that having been prescribed this post op (eg, broken hip or knee replacement) few go on to become drug addicts. No more than those rescribed other opiate based drigs. Apomorphine is actually a remarkable and effective pain reliever for ACUTE pain.
3. In Indonesia it is possible to buy codeine, without script from a pharmacy. Which, if you have minimal skills you can crush, refine and inject. the body doesn;t know the difference between codeine and morphine and heroin. Once it has been through the liver it's all the same.
4. Caffiene, in excess has been known to cause fatal arrhythmias. There are planty of documented cases.
5. Alcohol, surely don't have to go on about the harms of this legal drug.
6. , causes premature death of more than 50% of users. Interestingly, in Indonesia, more than 60% of men smoke. There are no laws like in Australia to protect others, so passive smoking rates are high. Extrapolating that out to the population as a whole tobacco would kill far more indonesians than all illicit drugs combined.
In my opinion....
This whole current death penanalty thing has nothing to do with worry about how a few international drug runners would effect the indonesian population. It is not about wrong or right. It is ALL about the image of new president, sending a message to the world and to Australia in particular that he means business, AND .... above all it may now be about saving FACE. There is absolutely no way the president can back down now from his hard line position without losing face. Politically, within his own country it would lose him so much credibility. If there was a way of saving face and letting them live, I feel it it would have happended already.
As well as Myaran and Andrew, also on the list for execution is a South Americal man who is ill with Schizophrenia and has not been receiving treatment. That in itself imust be a violation of human rights - that they would execute a mentally ill man.
We need to as a population to STOP going to Bali. This would send the strongest message possible. But would our nation of bogans give up their "island paradise" to send a powerful message to a president who appears to have lost his human compassion and dignity?
you can do whatever you like but I am booking an extra trip in support, to send a powerful message that I respect their right to self governance and to deal with filthy drug dealers in accordance with their laws. Apart from which Bali is just part of a very large country and political system.
there is also more to bali than boganism.
I dismiss all these posts that try to argue that heroin is harmless and no different than a maccas Frappuccino... complete nonsense.
I continue to be amazed at the mushy sympathy set for these guys! It's endemic in this country, an inability to accept the consequences of ones actions.
http://m.theage.com.au/world/bali-n...sakambangan-on-wednesday-20150303-13u5h9.html
Oh well. In about 12 hrs they will be trandferred to their final destination and have a minimum of 72 hours to live
Criminals they may be. But thinking ehat they are facing gives me the shivers
Oh well. In about 12 hrs they will be trandferred to their final destination and have a minimum of 72 hours to live
Criminals they may be. But thinking ehat they are facing gives me the shivers
Ausprop you have missed the point of my post.
Nowhere have I said heroin is not harmful. However, it is NO more harmful than a myriad of other drugs we have, some of them legal and available on prescription or at the local supermarket.
I have seen first hand what drug addiction is about - every day for the past 6 years including many who are addicted to prescription and over the counter opiates. It does not change my view or the view of many other sensible australians and others worldwide that the decision to execute people is wrong.
The "WAR" against drugs is unwinable. Kill as many as you want, it won;change a thing.
Again, these executions are NOT about drugs. If you believe so go ahead and stick your head in the sand.
Nowhere have I said heroin is not harmful. However, it is NO more harmful than a myriad of other drugs we have, some of them legal and available on prescription or at the local supermarket.
I have seen first hand what drug addiction is about - every day for the past 6 years including many who are addicted to prescription and over the counter opiates. It does not change my view or the view of many other sensible australians and others worldwide that the decision to execute people is wrong.
The "WAR" against drugs is unwinable. Kill as many as you want, it won;change a thing.
Again, these executions are NOT about drugs. If you believe so go ahead and stick your head in the sand.
If they were not exporting drugs in a country that openly executes people for doing so, then they would not be facing the firing squad.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/bali...oved-to-execution-island-20150303-13ue6t.html
Theyre on the way now!
Brother and gf not allowed to see them this morning
But apparently they will get tot see them once on the islaboth parents and family flying into bali as we speak
I suspect daddy chan is not coming due to health issues
that must be even worse
Theyre on the way now!
Brother and gf not allowed to see them this morning
But apparently they will get tot see them once on the islaboth parents and family flying into bali as we speak
I suspect daddy chan is not coming due to health issues
that must be even worse
What are they about then?
It can't be political, because the Indonesians have been executing drug traffickers for ages before this; it's a storm in a tea-cup to them currently what is going on with our 2 boys.
They couldn't care less about the Nationalities of the various offenders - as proven by their wide range of Countries represented in their executions...
In the minds of the Indonesians; they see drugs as a very bad thing; hence the penalty.
I think we all agree that the penalty is too harsh/barbaric.
All their previous leaders have ordered executions as far as I know.
So, it's not all about him.
We Aussies are looking through a tiny window in time.
