Bali Nine

[TMNT]

there are a lot of arguments that saying the death penalty doesnt work, but I think it does,

ive been to bali a few times, and each time ive tried a magic mushroom, for a bit of fun with friends and peer pressure (yes even at my age), however both did absolutely nothign for me

next time I go, I probably wont do it,because even though im not going to get executed for mushrooms, I certainly would be thinking if someone got caught for mushrooms and sentenced to 6 months jail I would be saying "what a pack of morons, how can you do drugs when this has happened, how dumb do you have to be"

so in my mind the death penalty works

 

[Simon]

I find it hard to read the lack of compassion displayed by fellow Australians. Obviously we all have a right to our point of view. I personally felt the executions were a huge injustice and feel that these men were genuinly remorseful and could have contributed more to the world by teaching others of the dangers and consequences of the drug trade than being put to death.

I do not feel anything positive will come of the deaths of these 2 Australians. I feel incredibly sad for their families. They have been served a life sentence and do not think they will ever truly recover from the events of yesterday.

Unfortunatly these 2 young men (only 21 and 24 at the time of their crimes) made some very bad decisions early on in life and paid the ultimate price for their stupidity.

After 10 years in prison reflecting on the bad decisions they made a second chance and opportunity to lead a life helping others would have been sufficient punishment and justice in my eyes.

The spiritual advisor for the Brazilian that was executed yesterday had the following to say. I think this sums up how unjust and tragic this whole execution was. Very sad indeed.

"Father Burrows said before the men were shot they were tied to a white cross.

He said he tried to prepare Gularte for what was going to happen to him but it wasn't until his final moments that the mentally ill prisoner understood he would be executed.

"It was only when they started putting on the chains he said to me `Father, am I being executed?'"

"That was not a very nice moment.

"Then on the cross he was just `what is the point of this ...

"'I made one mistake, why is this happening to me?'"

How can that not move anyone who reads it.

I wonder if maybe a lack of compassion is really a lack of ability to empathise with fellow human beings.

There is a name for that.

 

[Strannik]

my argument is, (repeadtedly said)

they are free to impose their own laws, however, be consistent, and do it properly.

murder>>>>> any drug crime

execute murderers as well, which they dont all the time

dont ask and expect clemency for indonesians on death row in other countries, which they do have succesffully done as recently as a few weeks ago in the middle east

wrong. there are far worse crimes than murder. just because you think otherwise doesn't mean you are correct and Indonesia should think the same
you are also wrong about seeking clemency. Indonesia doesn't seek clemency for drug dealers caught in other countries, and they aren't saying that no one should seek clemency within indonesia. so they are quite consistent here too.

 

[Strannik]

How can that not move anyone who reads it.

I wonder if maybe a lack of compassion is really a lack of ability to empathise with fellow human beings.

There is a name for that.

what's next? people asking for compassion for convicted pedophiles?

there is lots of compassion for the families of those two criminals. although it is partly their own fault for raising their children like that. there is zero compassion for the two convicted drug lords, who made lots of people (including their own families) suffer

 

[Simon]

How can you be alive in Australia and say there is zero compassion for these guys?

Making absolute statements which make no logical sense really weakens your soapbox.

Perhaps you were only talking about yourself?

 

[sanj]

although it is partly their own fault for raising their children like that.

wow, you have some serious issues

 

[Strannik]

wow, you have some serious issues

why, because i have no sympathies for drug smugglers?

 

[Strannik]

How can you be alive in Australia and say there is zero compassion for these guys?

Making absolute statements which make no logical sense really weakens your soapbox.

Perhaps you were only talking about yourself?

that was a reference to 'lack of compassion' from karina's post. you can replace 'zero' with 'lack of' if it makes you happier.

in my case lack equals to zero.

 

[BayView]

what's next? people asking for compassion for convicted pedophiles?

there is lots of compassion for the families of those two criminals. although it is partly their own fault for raising their children like that. there is zero compassion for the two convicted drug lords, who made lots of people (including their own families) suffer

I don't agree with you on the death penalty for drug smugglers, because they are peddling a product, and noone is forced to buy it...there has to be a degree of shared blame and guilt.

But I almost do agree with the death penalty for peadophiles.

What they do; they cannot cure themselves of, and they destroy the lives of those innocent kids who have no choice or decision in the events.

 

[jackbak]

there are a lot of arguments that saying the death penalty doesnt work, but I think it does,

ive been to bali a few times, and each time ive tried a magic mushroom, for a bit of fun with friends and peer pressure (yes even at my age), however both did absolutely nothign for me

next time I go, I probably wont do it,because even though im not going to get executed for mushrooms, I certainly would be thinking if someone got caught for mushrooms and sentenced to 6 months jail I would be saying "what a pack of morons, how can you do drugs when this has happened, how dumb do you have to be"

so in my mind the death penalty works

That makes no sense to me, the crime you have been committing is not punishable by the death sentence so how can the death sentence have an effect on the crime you've been committing? I think what your saying is all the media attention around this crime has made you think twice about using drugs while in Bali?

There's no proof the death penalty 'works'. The states in the US that use the death penalty actually have a higher rate of murder than states that don't. Indonesia uses the death penalty on drug traders but they still have a major issue with drugs.

 

[sanj]

why, because i have no sympathies for drug smugglers?

You have just come out and said that it is partly the ffault of the 2 families as well. 2 families that are currently in mourning because they have to bury their sons.

Pull your head in

 

[TMNT]

That makes no sense to me, the crime you have been committing is not punishable by the death sentence so how can the death sentence have an effect on the crime you've been committing? I think what your saying is all the media attention around this crime has made you think twice about using drugs while in Bali?

There's no proof the death penalty 'works'. The states in the US that use the death penalty actually have a higher rate of murder than states that don't. Indonesia uses the death penalty on drug traders but they still have a major issue with drugs.

Its not the fact that its punishabke by death its the fact that they are extrenely strict with it

If the penalties for speeding were ten folded. Id defnitely not speed. At the moment i speed every now and again

 

[Strannik]

You have just come out and said that it is partly the ffault of the 2 families as well. 2 families that are currently in mourning because they have to bury their sons.

Pull your head in

of course it is. they failed to explain them that drug smuggling is bad.
are you saying that the way parents raise their children has nothing to do with how they decide to act?

 

[jackbak]

why, because i have no sympathies for drug smugglers?

It's got nothing to do with sympathy for drug dealers, it's about having sympathy full stop. No one deserves a bullet through the heart, regardless of how stupid they are.

 

[Strannik]

It's got nothing to do with sympathy for drug dealers, it's about having sympathy full stop. No one deserves a bullet through the heart, regardless of how stupid they are.

mmm okay

so you are saying Hitler didn't deserve a bullet? all the other nazis that slaughtered millions of civilians didn't deserve a bullet?

 

[jackbak]

mmm okay

so you are saying Hitler didn't deserve a bullet? all the other nazis that slaughtered millions of civilians didn't deserve a bullet?

I just re read my post, I don't think it's unclear.

 

[karina]

I don't think its fair to blame the parents. I would think they had no idea of what their sons were up to. We need to remember these were just young boys when this all happened and they made some bad decisions and took a wrong path with devastating consequences. We need to remember how young they were at the time. 21 year olds do stupid things sometimes.

The way they have carried themselves in the last few years shows they have turned into fine young men. I say this because they have helped others and everyone that met them and knew them says that they had a positive impact on their lives, fellow prisoners etc. I read today that the guards that took the Australians to the execution yesterday had tears as they had to collect them. In the short time they knew them they became very fond of them.

I think their parents should be proud of the men they became. The one act they committed when they were young men should not define them. They took positive steps to better themselves and become better people. They showed great dignity until the end.

 

[sanj]

of course it is. they failed to explain them that drug smuggling is bad.
are you saying that the way parents raise their children has nothing to do with how they decide to act?

That is ridiculous, stop drawing long bows.

does your ignorance reflect badly on your parents or have you managed it entirely on your own?

 

[Strannik]

That is ridiculous, stop drawing long bows.

does your ignorance reflect badly on your parents or have you managed it entirely on your own?

had there been any then yes, it would be a result of my upbringing.

i think you completely missed the point though. every person is a product of parenting, education etc. if the person commits criminal or antisocial acts, it means that somewhere along the way both society and parents failed. it's just how things are.

had my kids committed something like this, i wouldn't search for someone to blame, it'd be entirely my failure as a parent.

 

[Phar Lap]

had there been any then yes, it would be a result of my upbringing.

i think you completely missed the point though. every person is a product of parenting, education etc. if the person commits criminal or antisocial acts, it means that somewhere along the way both society and parents failed. it's just how things are.

had my kids committed something like this, i wouldn't search for someone to blame, it'd be entirely my failure as a parent.

Best post in this whole thread.

Take responsibility for actions people. The law in Indonesia says traffic drugs, you get shot. Dont do it!

How stupid and greedy were these 2 to do this and know their families would suffer this horrible ordeal as a consequence? Or does their parents have amnesty on that?

How can people excuse that by saying "oh they just made a mistake" ?

You know the worst thing about this is that the media has beaten it up so much its become a shrine to 2 drug dealers.