Bali Nine
- Thread starter Scott No Mates
- Start date
I think the Federal Government should seize all their assets under proceeds of crime legislation.
now we are really getting ridiculous
Further; don't do drugs and don't travel with drugs.
If the actual event of travelling itself - to enjoy life and experience our planet's offerings - is not enough to get you high; you have problems and have missed the real point..
Now I'm hearing it all;
1. Libs came in after worst Labour (and Aus record) of all time - despite the biggest resource boom of all time.
2. Senate has blocked virtually every attempt at reforms so far. Plus, 86% of all Gubb revenues is already legislated spending.
3. Iron ore price has virtually halved in last year or so - depriving Aus of huge amount of it's expected revenues.
The Gubbmint respond to inquiries from media about this case (not the other way around), and have been making many attempts to save those two lives - which the media focus on and report on. It is not a "Government campaign" to deflect attention away from their normal duties.
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Well this is your opinion.
I support the death penalty because the punishment has to be comparable to the crime and this particular crime was comparable to killing many people.
Instead of having warm feelings for the criminals we should be turning our hearts towards their victims, the young kids who's lives have been destroyed because of people like these 2.
Is it barbaric to let them get what they deserve?
Its another country's penal system doing it anyway.
Why should we care for these 2 guys?
They chose to do it and they are not mentally unstable, they were fully aware of what they were doing.
Now I'm hearing it all;
1. Libs came in after worst Labour (and Aus record) of all time - despite the biggest resource boom of all time.
2. Senate has blocked virtually every attempt at reforms so far. Plus, 86% of all Gubb revenues is already legislated spending.
3. Iron ore price has virtually halved in last year or so - depriving Aus of huge amount of it's expected revenues.
The Gubbmint respond to inquiries from media about this case (not the other way around), and have been making many attempts to save those two lives - which the media focus on and report on. It is not a "Government campaign" to deflect attention away from their normal duties.
I don't want to turn this into political discussion but you are wrong
There is some question of the legality of the executions under international law. Under an international treaty which Indonesia signed up to, death sentence can only be imposed for "the most serious crimes".
"Drug trafficking does not constitute such a crime when it involves no prima facie harm or violence to another person," according to legal safeguards added to the treaty in 1984, according to the advice commissioned for Chan and Sukumaran's legal team and provided to Ms Bishop.
Julie Bishop sought high level advice and requested the Indonesian Govt to submit to the judgement of the International Court of Justice but did not receive a reply and was ignored.
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"The execution of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran was illegal under international law according to high-level advice provided to Julie Bishop, but Australia's request that Indonesia submit to the judgment of the International Court of Justice on the matter was ignored.
The Australian ambassador asked Indonesia's consent on March 10 to explore the issue before the international court, but the Foreign Minister revealed yesterday she still has not had a reply.
The Australian government had strong legal advice by ANU academic Don Rothwell and Sydney barrister Chris Ward that the men's execution was illegal under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which Indonesia signed in 2006.
Under that treaty, the death sentence can only be imposed for "the most serious crimes".
"Drug trafficking does not constitute such a crime when it involves no prima facie harm or violence to another person," according to legal safeguards added to the treaty in 1984, according to the advice commissioned for Chan and Sukumaran's legal team and provided to Ms Bishop.
"We concede that one of the possible consequences of the trafficking of drugs is self-abuse of the drug, possibly resulting in death. However, this is an event which is considerably removed from the actual trafficking of the drugs and ultimately involves an act of self-choice by the drug user"
The fact that Chan and Sukumaran were conspiring to take the drugs from Thailand to Australia, with only a stop-over in Bali, meant the possibility of harm to Indonesians from their crime was remote. For these reasons, their crime could not be considered in the "most serious" category.
The legal advice also suggested that aspects of Indonesia's behaviour in the lead-up to the executions represented "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" - another violation of the covenant.
Professor Rothwell and Dr Ward pointed out that execution by way of firing squad, the men's treatment over 10 years in jail, the Attorney-General H.M. Prasetyo's decision to execute prisoners in large groups "described by Indonesia as batches, in the presence of each other and before a massed group of executioners", and repeated comments in the lead-up that the deaths were "imminent", "will not be delayed", may be "this week", and that "on-going legal processes would not be respected" were all cruel and inhuman.
Ms Bishop was handed the advice earlier this year, but she had to wait until all Indonesia's domestic legal processes were complete before seeking Indonesia's consent to argue the case before the International Court of Justice, the judicial arm of the United Nations.
While Indonesia is a member of the court, it does not recognise its "compulsory jurisdiction", meaning it must agree to the case being heard there.
Ms Bishop confirmed on Friday that ambassador Paul Grigson had requested of the Indonesian foreign ministry six weeks ago that it submit to that jurisdiction. However, like many other requests made by Australia in the lead up to the executions, it was met with silence.
"Indonesia has not responded to our request.," Ms Bishop said on Friday.
.................................................
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...-ignores-australia-again-20150501-1my3z4.html
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Had a old mates wife ring up at 5.12 this morning,their 2 sons have been into smack on and off for several years now,several different clinics they go into detox then within 28 days they are back into the slow death,went up the hospital early this morning he's had 2 stems placed into his heart somewhere one was 90% blocked,he may be okay,as he said the way my boys life is and the stress they have caused me caused this heart attack,so maybe just maybe look at the other side,and what happens that's only one family in one street in Australia,and most time it lie outside the normal field of observation..
Can't be true, they were poor niave boys that just made one mistake
How gullible can people be.
How gullible can people be.
Exactly and those 2 didn't give anyone up which raises questions about just how rehabilitated they were (quote taken from the article)
This is a post by a police officer regarding the hype around the Bali executions and it's something I think more Aussies need to read .................................................
I can?t believe the mentality of people. I have been in law enforcement for 34 years and have worked in many areas within the force. After 9 years in, I spent nearly 5 years working as a UC. (Undercover) attempting to infiltrate traffickers of all types of drugs including amphets right down to simple choof. What a world of pain and misery. I was encased by the filth and self-destruction where I witnessed numerous deaths by either ODs or in a lot of cases suicides. Young girls selling their bodies for 10 bucks a go just to get their hands on their next fix. I remember one particular girl who hung around with the collection I was trying to set up. She was 14 when she was hooked and on the game by 15. Her body was so ripped and torn by drug and sexual abuse she had intestines falling out of her rectum as a result of numerous rapes and sexual encounters where she tried to get payment. Her child was taken off her when she was 15 by Human services but they could do nothing for her but supply treatment when they could. She died at 19. Alone in a back street. Where were you do-gooders. I saw you pass her on the street and avoid her all the time. I would give her food but she preferred to starve and get some smack rather than eat. I became depressed with my job after this time and had to eventually get into some other area. I guarantee any police officer who reads this will be thinking of some person they have dealt with in their career that fits this build. But all I see is you love making by the fire wanna be Samaritans who treat these two drug kings as heroes. Ok I accept that you dont believe in the death penalty. I don?t like it either. But I am sure as **** not going to call on the PM to ?Bring our boys home? No boy of mine would do this. The media and the solicitors have played you people for the fools you are. You have never lived in the world of drug, crime and despair. You have been protected from it so much you live in the fantasy world where you believe you can hug everyone and all will be better. You are not qualified to even comment as to whether these guys should get parole or not. Have a look at our system. Or have you forgotten already. Adrian Bayley. You paroled him. You say the parole board stuffed up and parole him. But the parole board consists of people just like you. With your opinions and beliefs. That was a complete and utter failure. This piece of **** was a career rapist and the only ones we can blame for what he did is all of us. Not the judge. Not the Parole board or the police. Us. The decisions like this that are being made are by people who never have to deal with these shitheads when they are in street mode committing crimes. You see them all clean shaven and in their court suits or white shirts becoming born again etc. You poor misguided fools. You don?t even care about the effects of what they have done to our society. Our penalties used to be tough and crime was low. When I started in the police force 34 years ago we called it ?Marijuana? It was the biggest thing on the street. Crime was not rampant. Then the drug importing began and the addiction, the shift to powders etc and suspended sentences and here we are. Well your system has worked hasn?t it. Then you voice how much you hate police. But you ring us and run inside and hide whilst we come out and deal with the **** you don?t have the love making by the fire guts to deal with yourself. But you are right up there on your keyboards bravely **** canning the police for excessive force and filming it on your cameras. Here we are in Australia expecting the world to fall at our feet. ?Lets boycott Bali. Wow you heroes. That will fix them. Won?t mean ****. You think Australia props up Bali. There are more tourist from Europe than Australia there. And its mostly the bogans one and only overseas holiday destination. Henry Chinn. Know him? Bet not. Well he is on death row in China for trying to smuggle 270 grams of meth into our lovely country in 2004. Have you given a **** about him yet? No. Why? Cos the media hasn?t spoon fed you the crap to hype you up. Who are the two Aussies who were caught in China in last year trying to cart 75kg of ice to here? Davis and Gardiner. They are a couple. China has executed in excess of 1000 people in a 12 month period. But you still buy their **** every day. You hypocrites. These two Australians will be executed and you will still buy their product. Second chance you say. You think these people have no prior convictions. You think this is their first attempt. Wake up fools. Stop hugging yourselves. Two men died today because they broke a law in a country where they knew they faced death if caught. Had they have got away with it, there would be a countless number of 19 year old girls laying in the gutter dead. Quick run inside and tell yourself what a great person you are
I can?t believe the mentality of people. I have been in law enforcement for 34 years and have worked in many areas within the force. After 9 years in, I spent nearly 5 years working as a UC. (Undercover) attempting to infiltrate traffickers of all types of drugs including amphets right down to simple choof. What a world of pain and misery. I was encased by the filth and self-destruction where I witnessed numerous deaths by either ODs or in a lot of cases suicides. Young girls selling their bodies for 10 bucks a go just to get their hands on their next fix. I remember one particular girl who hung around with the collection I was trying to set up. She was 14 when she was hooked and on the game by 15. Her body was so ripped and torn by drug and sexual abuse she had intestines falling out of her rectum as a result of numerous rapes and sexual encounters where she tried to get payment. Her child was taken off her when she was 15 by Human services but they could do nothing for her but supply treatment when they could. She died at 19. Alone in a back street. Where were you do-gooders. I saw you pass her on the street and avoid her all the time. I would give her food but she preferred to starve and get some smack rather than eat. I became depressed with my job after this time and had to eventually get into some other area. I guarantee any police officer who reads this will be thinking of some person they have dealt with in their career that fits this build. But all I see is you love making by the fire wanna be Samaritans who treat these two drug kings as heroes. Ok I accept that you dont believe in the death penalty. I don?t like it either. But I am sure as **** not going to call on the PM to ?Bring our boys home? No boy of mine would do this. The media and the solicitors have played you people for the fools you are. You have never lived in the world of drug, crime and despair. You have been protected from it so much you live in the fantasy world where you believe you can hug everyone and all will be better. You are not qualified to even comment as to whether these guys should get parole or not. Have a look at our system. Or have you forgotten already. Adrian Bayley. You paroled him. You say the parole board stuffed up and parole him. But the parole board consists of people just like you. With your opinions and beliefs. That was a complete and utter failure. This piece of **** was a career rapist and the only ones we can blame for what he did is all of us. Not the judge. Not the Parole board or the police. Us. The decisions like this that are being made are by people who never have to deal with these shitheads when they are in street mode committing crimes. You see them all clean shaven and in their court suits or white shirts becoming born again etc. You poor misguided fools. You don?t even care about the effects of what they have done to our society. Our penalties used to be tough and crime was low. When I started in the police force 34 years ago we called it ?Marijuana? It was the biggest thing on the street. Crime was not rampant. Then the drug importing began and the addiction, the shift to powders etc and suspended sentences and here we are. Well your system has worked hasn?t it. Then you voice how much you hate police. But you ring us and run inside and hide whilst we come out and deal with the **** you don?t have the love making by the fire guts to deal with yourself. But you are right up there on your keyboards bravely **** canning the police for excessive force and filming it on your cameras. Here we are in Australia expecting the world to fall at our feet. ?Lets boycott Bali. Wow you heroes. That will fix them. Won?t mean ****. You think Australia props up Bali. There are more tourist from Europe than Australia there. And its mostly the bogans one and only overseas holiday destination. Henry Chinn. Know him? Bet not. Well he is on death row in China for trying to smuggle 270 grams of meth into our lovely country in 2004. Have you given a **** about him yet? No. Why? Cos the media hasn?t spoon fed you the crap to hype you up. Who are the two Aussies who were caught in China in last year trying to cart 75kg of ice to here? Davis and Gardiner. They are a couple. China has executed in excess of 1000 people in a 12 month period. But you still buy their **** every day. You hypocrites. These two Australians will be executed and you will still buy their product. Second chance you say. You think these people have no prior convictions. You think this is their first attempt. Wake up fools. Stop hugging yourselves. Two men died today because they broke a law in a country where they knew they faced death if caught. Had they have got away with it, there would be a countless number of 19 year old girls laying in the gutter dead. Quick run inside and tell yourself what a great person you are
There is a lot to be learned from these guys' mistakes and challenges. And not just about drug trafficking and the consequences attached. But about life and the impermanence of life. They learned to live in the present moment. Their egos died in the process - which is great as many of us fight a whole lifetime with our egos, but acceptance of life and letting it flow is the lesson for many (including myself).
Some might say it is woo woo stuff, but all of that has happened to these guys, is just a clear example of the soul's journey. Their souls had to evolve and this was their way of evolving. Others learn through dis-ease like cancer or mental health issues or domestic violence. Everybody is on their own journey. This includes their family members.
The following article is brilliant. It also talks about Van Nugyen who was executed in Singapore in 2005. Love this bit of quoting of Andrew Chan:
He's learned to live in the present moment. Which in my opinion is wonderful. Would have been nice if he had learned about it without having done what he did. But ego is a stubborn thing. We don't learn until our ego is completely shattered and this is what happened with these guys - an extreme case. Kinda reminds me of Eckhart Tolle's life with depression (and a prisoner of his own mind) and one day him waking up transformed. So this is a transformation journey.
Having said the above, I think the death sentence is not really for these guys alone as they died and have gone, never to feel that pain again in the human form, but for their families who die a little bit every day due to the misery of this experience. It would be up to them to use this experience to help change death penalty laws as well as help young from going down the path like their sons and brothers did. This is their soul journey and for them to learn from it....Miserable nonetheless. Yet transforming inside out.
Some might say it is woo woo stuff, but all of that has happened to these guys, is just a clear example of the soul's journey. Their souls had to evolve and this was their way of evolving. Others learn through dis-ease like cancer or mental health issues or domestic violence. Everybody is on their own journey. This includes their family members.
The following article is brilliant. It also talks about Van Nugyen who was executed in Singapore in 2005. Love this bit of quoting of Andrew Chan:
https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2008/september/1289779129/luke-davies/penalty-death
He's learned to live in the present moment. Which in my opinion is wonderful. Would have been nice if he had learned about it without having done what he did. But ego is a stubborn thing. We don't learn until our ego is completely shattered and this is what happened with these guys - an extreme case. Kinda reminds me of Eckhart Tolle's life with depression (and a prisoner of his own mind) and one day him waking up transformed. So this is a transformation journey.
Having said the above, I think the death sentence is not really for these guys alone as they died and have gone, never to feel that pain again in the human form, but for their families who die a little bit every day due to the misery of this experience. It would be up to them to use this experience to help change death penalty laws as well as help young from going down the path like their sons and brothers did. This is their soul journey and for them to learn from it....Miserable nonetheless. Yet transforming inside out.
Also, drugs trafficking and intake etc are a symptom of a bigger problem. Likely due to childhood neglect, abuse, domestic violence. It' not funny how much childhood can influence life unless a person decides to consciously change. Unfortunately in this case the choice made was too drastic and devastating for themselves and their families. They don't deserve to die, nonetheless.
The death penalty is the well advertised penalty for the crime of drug smuggling and they were smuggling drugs.
Cant get any more deserving than that.
They could also have chosen not to profit on the misery of others by being drug smugglers. Their choices led to their deaths.
do you think heroin and alcohol are equally dangerous?
Absolutely not. Don't make me laugh, alcohol is ten times worse, Don't get me started on nicotine.
