Ban on electric hot water storage systems by 2012

H

handyandy

Received a letter from my electricity supplier the other day highlighting the phasing out of electric storage hot water systems by 2012:eek:. The options are heat pump or solar at some considerable cost increase.

Cost increases are considerable with solar as the whole location set up has to change with various trades involved and worse when it needs to be implemented before the failure of a storage tank set up as the installation of solar takes much longer.

We have 5 properties which would be impacted by this change.

"During 2012, electric water heaters will no longer be able to be installed in:

  • any existing detached, terrace or town house, and
  • any new flat or apartment with access to piped natural gas, except where an exemption applies."
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/...nd-equipment/hot-water-systems/phase-out.aspx

Cheers
 
Thanks for the heads up handyandy. Haven't seen any information on this before.

We'll have one affected property in QLD (but only if the existing electric system breaks). Will be sure to extend the life of the existing one.

But this will probably not be the first of the "save the planet", "global warming" rubbish requirements to be implemented in the future. We can afford it. Hope the Labor and Green voters feel the full financial pain.
 
Handyandy. Gas is another option.

Checked the requirements for QLD. Seems like at this stage the conversion to Solar or Heat pump is voluntary if natural gas is not available at no additional cost (how long until it's manditory?)

For QLD anyway, you can search if your in a reticulated natural gas area.
https://www.smartservice.qld.gov.au/services/property/natural-gas-reticulation/search/postcode

At this stage, owners of homes located outside a reticulated natural gas area will still be able to replace their existing electric hot water system* with another electric system or voluntarily upgrade to a greenhouse efficient system.
 
bluestorm said:
Handyandy. Gas is another option.

Checked the requirements for QLD. Seems like at this stage the conversion to Solar or Heat pump is voluntary if natural gas is not available at no additional cost (how long until it's manditory?)

For QLD anyway, you can search if your in a reticulated natural gas area.
https://www.smartservice.qld.gov.au/services/property/natural-gas-reticulation/search/postcode

At this stage, owners of homes located outside a reticulated natural gas area will still be able to replace their existing electric hot water system* with another electric system or voluntarily upgrade to a greenhouse efficient system.
Click to expand...

All my affected properties are in non reticulated areas. So my only option is solar as I believe that even the heat pump will be banned at some point down the track.

There was even talk about including a forced use of LPG as back up to solar if there was no gas available. Some of the Rheem documents on the web refer to this.

As Rolf mentioned - what are they going to do with the dead night load, turn of the generators, I don't think so. Then logically they will need to scale back the base load generation and go for smaller gas turbine generators which can be turned on and off (my believe) although some of the electrical generation experts can elaborate:eek:

Cheers
 
handyandy said:
As Rolf mentioned - what are they going to do with the dead night load, turn of the generators, I don't think so. Then logically they will need to scale back the base load generation and go for smaller gas turbine generators which can be turned on and off (my believe) although some of the electrical generation experts can elaborate:eek:

Cheers
Click to expand...

Maybe we can charge electric cars handyandy :)

One of the reasons a smartgrid would make power use alot more efficient.
 
i'm looking forward to the ppor getting solar when the current tank dies - which might not be for several years.:eek: but i can understand the frustration, and expense, with ip's tho ... another reason i'm getting into units.

what i find interesting is that, in the uk, houses built after 2016 have to be carbon neutral. not just some woosy basix, but no carbon emissions at all thru solar, insulation, grey water recycling etc. i think it's exciting.
 
If you have an electric system that is getting old, why not replace it before the deadline. You will get many years from the new one, and in the meantime technology will improve and costs will reduce as everybody starts moving over to the other types of heaters.

But I actually think it is a move in the right direction.
 
Solar hot water services are amazingly expensive without the rebates (which you don't get when you put one on a new house). They are about $4-5k plus installation.

Heat pumps are a lot (ie, much much MUCH) cheaper BUT my grandparents got one and I had no idea that they are such horrible noisy things, so after being close to that one I categorically refuse to ever install one of them. I'm also very dubious how they would work in < 5 degree weather, I've heard they don't work at all in Canberra in winter (public housing installed a lot of them and all the tenants complained) and the same would apply to anywhere cold.

We don't have piped gas here so most of the new builds have heat pumps. Not sure I'd ever want to live in a house with such a noisy motor just outside a window, they are much louder than any airconditioner I've ever heard, starting to creep into annoying garden appliance level of noisy.
 
Just been doing some research.

A Rheem Loline 325 lt (our current size) with gas back up $4700 no rebates as we had insulation done.

Cheers

Compared to $900 for electric off peak
 
handyandy said:
Just been doing some research.

A Rheem Loline 325 lt (our current size) with gas back up $4700 no rebates as we had insulation done.

Cheers

Compared to $900 for electric off peak
Click to expand...

I feel your pain.

We had to do one in an IP. Because it already had solar, we had no option other than to put another solar in. No rebates available but we hadn't even put insulation in. :(
 
RumpledElf said:
Heat pumps are a lot (ie, much much MUCH) cheaper BUT my grandparents got one and I had no idea that they are such horrible noisy things, so after being close to that one I categorically refuse to ever install one of them. I'm also very dubious how they would work in < 5 degree weather, I've heard they don't work at all in Canberra in winter (public housing installed a lot of them and all the tenants complained) and the same would apply to anywhere cold
Click to expand...

From what I've heard, the only good ones are "Siddons Solarstream."
Anything else is trash.
 
jeebus christ!!

They would be far smarter to ban those cheap and nasty electric ceramic/hot wire blower heaters before banning electric hot water.

There is going to be SERIOUS backlash to this once the voting populous realise how expensive it is to change to alternative water heating methods.

.... thank god i've got gas at home, but many others wont be so lucky.
 
Rolf Latham said:
does this include off peak ?

coz what are they going to do with the dead night load ?
Click to expand...

Use less fuel perhaps? This is where the debate gets lost - people think that generators have to be used 24/7 and provide "baseload" to remain "efficient". There is no such requirement. If load is reduced on the system, less fuel gets burnt and less emissions get generated. It's all very simple: less load = a good thing!

HA - if you don't have gas and are concerned about the capital cost of solar (ie you don't care how much your tenants have to pay for their power), then just get a heat pump system. There are plenty that are far quieter than RE describes. They're not that expensive and there's no chance of them being banned in the foreseeable future - they're generally more efficient than gas...

Electric hot water systems are horrendously inefficient - they are the answer to the question of how to make the most inefficient method of heating water imaginable. Good riddance to bad stuff...
 
HiEquity said:
Use less fuel perhaps? This is where the debate gets lost - people think that generators have to be used 24/7 and provide "baseload" to remain "efficient". There is no such requirement. If load is reduced on the system, less fuel gets burnt and less emissions get generated. It's all very simple: less load = a good thing!
Click to expand...

Not quite right HiEquity.

The original statement about baseload is fairly correct in that a coal fired power station such as the majority of Australian ones are can't be started and stopped nor "slowed down" that easily.

Essentially your burning coal in a boiler to create steam, this steam at high pressure spins a turbine which in turn spins a generator.

The generator is designed to spin at a set revolution and obviously by design is large so switching them "off and on" is not viable.

The best way to provide for "peakload" currently is smaller gas fired turbines which are a lot more responsive and can be direct burn substituted by steam.

As you can see from the list of power stations for NSW here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_New_South_Wales

by far the majority of the power is generated from coal fired stations.

A smartgrid would allow the power generation companies to control non-essential power and be able to manage peakload a lot better.
 
I'll just add I notice you live in WA where the opposite is true in regards to power stations.

The majority are gas so it's a lot easier to manage compared to the Eastern States.
 
i would like to know total emissions from street lighting. I stress when I leave one little light on in my house, those street lights are another league
 
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