Beer coaster calc

[BayView]

Now, I am not very smart financially.

So, what I say here may be totally wrong and I am happy to be corrected, but...

This morning Julie Bishop was saying on the breakfast teev and ABC news that Medicare was currently costing Taxpayers $20B per year, and would escalate to $30B in 10(?) years.

And here we have a backflip on a $5 co-pay to help fund it.

Just after JB did her interview on ABC, a spokesman for the medico's said there would be no co-pay, and no change to the Medicare Levy.

So, my head scratch moment then was; "How are we ever going to decrease this cost of Medicare, and/or to our pockets/deficit?"

I haven't finished though;

Add to this;
* Our monthly - yes monthly; interest bill - of $1b to fund the deficit. Even Sanj here on SS reminded me that under Libs the deficit had continued to grow despite their efforts thus far.
* Unemployed rate increasing - costing more money to the Gubb (and us) in both loss of revenues and payments for welfare.
* Local retail sales down (unless bought at end-of-year sales etc)
* Increasing offshore sales online meaning further loss of revenues.
* Collapse of mining boom meaning further loss of revenues.
* Decreasing manufacturing across Aus meaning further loss of jobs and revenues...

My beer coaster calc is that given all of the above, how on earth can the deficit ever be decreased or wiped out with current conditions?

This is where Joe Hockey and all Pollies fall down - he needs to come out on the teev or radio and spell out the brutal truth.

Comments?

 

[Phar Lap]

This is where Joe Hockey and all Pollies fall down - he needs to come out on the teev or radio and spell out the brutal truth.

Comments?

Seems the majority (at leats thats what media is projecting) dont want a bar of the truth. They dont want to contribute their bit as a collective to get finances back on track.

Can hardly blame Joe Hockey.
Is there anyone else who could do this in place of Joe?
No. maybe ask Chris Uhllman from ABC. He knows it all.

 

[geoffw]

I think a big bit of the problem is that there needs to be a way of making the people who can afford to pay, pay.

Joe's own example was him taking his son to the doctor, and it cost him a very small amount.

But I know that if I go to the doc it costs me a substantial amount out of pocket. A lot more than a $5 or $20 copayment. If I was on the dole or age pension I'd think twice about seeking medical treatment.

I have no argument with people who can afford it paying their fair share, including myself. But let's have a safety net for people who can't afford it.

 

[BayView]

I think a big bit of the problem is that there needs to be a way of making the people who can afford to pay, pay.

Joe's own example was him taking his son to the doctor, and it cost him a very small amount.

But I know that if I go to the doc it costs me a substantial amount out of pocket. A lot more than a $5 or $20 copayment. If I was on the dole or age pension I'd think twice about seeking medical treatment.

I have no argument with people who can afford it paying their fair share, including myself. But let's have a safety net for people who can't afford it.

We who can pay already do so through our Medicare Levy.

Folks with healthcare cards already get looked after. So do pensioners I believe.

When I go to the Doc - which is almost never - I pay about $36 out of pocket from memory. I reckon that's a fair deal.

I haven't been for a couple of years.

If I had to pay $41 it wouldn't bother me too much.

I and others like me are subsiding a sinking ship, and not costing the problem any money into the bargain.

Having said that, my wife has been taking our kids to a place recently which bulk-bills. Zero money from her purse. Our kids don't get sick all that often though.

That's a fantastic deal for us, but we as a Country cannot afford it anymore.

The hard yards need to start if we are gunna be fair dinkum about these debts; but no-one wants to do them it would seem..

 

[Scott No Mates]

You're on the money there. Too many people don't want to know the truth of the economic situation - preferring to put it all on the 'never never plan'. Having a country which staved off going down the gurgler during the GFC is testimony to both governments however some of their methods could be questionable eg: Baby bonus and the like, others simply bought time.

The government has to bite the bullet and the opposition simply have to stop opposing for the sake of it and support the government productively. Not saying that current government policies are 100% but at least they may be a move in the right direction to reduce debt (paying ridiculous amounts of interest to overseas financiers makes no sense as the money leaves our shores never to return).

 

[LibGS]

Now, I am not very smart financially.

So, what I say here may be totally wrong and I am happy to be corrected, but...

This guy did some digging and here are the results.

Medicare?s growth isn?t out of control ? It?s actually slowing

Can you please post a photo of your beer coaster so we can verify your figures.

 

[BayView]

This guy did some digging and here are the results.

Medicare?s growth isn?t out of control ? It?s actually slowing

Can you please post a photo of your beer coaster so we can verify your figures.

Maybe some good news then.

Why would JB say it was blowing out though?

It does show in the second graph that Medicare expenditure is increasing.

The problem is the GDP I think.

Mining and manufacture are down the toilet currently, so is the graph a prediction?

It could be still on the downward trend going into the next few years.

Where are the improved revenues to support Medicare debt going to come from?

Interesting side-bar: as a small business owner, I am now compelled to pay for "audit insurance" to the tune of $500 per year approx. It is a new thing, and I am taking the risk not to pay it, because I can't afford to.

Extrapolate that out to every small business in Aus, and we have a scenario whereby they either absorb the cost, or not pay it. Many won't, many will.

Many won't be able to pass it on to the consumer. I can't pass it on that easily without complaint. (why is it that the petrol stations can jump up the price by 19c overnight, but if I put up my hourly rate by $1 each year, I am an expensive gouging crook?)

The "wills" may reconsider more employment expansion as a result. Less jobs being created.

"It's only $500, and tax deductible" I hear you all say.

Ok then; can one of you pay it for me, and I'll refund you the tax deduction next year.

 

[geoffw]

I've always thought that audit insurance was a ripoff, provided by accounting companies as a way of boosting their profits immensely without any much effort on their behalf.

I've had a minor audit, it didn't cost me too much. If I'd put that $500 pa in the bank for each of my eight years in business, there would have been heaps to pay for even a major audit.

 

[LibGS]

Why did government misrespresent the figures? Who knows. But I suspect that ideology is a big factor.

Revenue wise, we are in trouble and the medium term outlook isn't good. I'm not an economist and I don't have answers. But I do believe in big government when it comes to infrastructure, healthcare and education. Both sides have let government investment spending slide and it's starting to bite.

 

[BayView]

Why did government misrespresent the figures?

I don't think they were.

The graph showed a Medicare increase.

 

[Blacky]

So, my head scratch moment then was; "How are we ever going to decrease this cost of Medicare, and/or to our pockets/deficit?"

We spend +/- $135bln on welfare payments... I would start there.

That is more than we spend on health and education combined. Im surprised more people don't see an issue here.

Blacky

 

[BayView]

We spend +/- $135bln on welfare payments... I would start there.

That is more than we spend on health and education combined. Im surprised more people don't see an issue here.

Blacky

I do, and have always seen it, but the Pollies don't want to touch it because it is a guaranteed vote loser....

Look how much the Country squealed when they threatened to take $5 out of their pocket for the copay.

And yet; seems everyone can afford a pack if cigs, a take-away coffee, a slab of cans, an hour of tattooing...

You get my drift, I'm sure.

 

[LibGS]

And yet; seems everyone can afford a pack if cigs, a take-away coffee, a slab of cans, an hour of tattooing...
You get my drift, I'm sure.

But you have no problem with corporate welfare and the perks that our tax dollars pay for? Gina and BHP need a deisel subsidy? Really? Gosh she's a battler.

 

[geoffw]

... To say nothing of the paltry taxes paid by the likes of Amazon, Apple and eBay in Australia for the amount of profit they generate. You can be sure the gubbmint will pursue your mechanic shop for every last cent owed, but the multis can take away $$$ from Australian businesses and pay almost zero tax. It seems just too hard.

 

[BayView]

But you have no problem with corporate welfare and the perks that our tax dollars pay for? Gina and BHP need a deisel subsidy? Really? Gosh she's a battler.

I'm not of the mindset to penalise the rich, and take away incentives for business owners. It doesn't matter how many zeros are on the end of the business's bottom line; if you take away the incentives, job losses are a result. Mining is currently experiencing a massive slide, so we need to go a bit more easy.

Folks like you would like to see the golden goose dead, methinks.

We are all happy as pigs in mud when the mining companies are paying plumbers, electricians, chippies and the like circa $150k per year... but god forbid the same company should get a few tax breaks to encourage investment, employment and production - and jobs.

Nice twist and distortion of everything that I'm saying. If you're trying to make me feel some sort of guilt about that end of town's perks, you're way off base and don't know my ideology on life.

Having said that, I don't 100% support that type of corporate shoit, and the Gubb makes the rules; not me.

Do they (the larger companies) get too many perks? It's arguable.

Keep in mind; they pay a yearly payroll tax that would support a small third world Country.

Currently, we are seeing loads of larger companies (and smaller ones) laying off jobs left right and centre, downsizing and/or moving offshore ; even closing down. Is that what you want because they apply for a better deal to operate their business?

Obviously, a complete overhaul of perks, deductions, concessions, ongoing residual payments to ex-Pollies...you name it - is needed.

But, the Corporate "welfare" recipients don't seem to ever complain when something like a $5 co-pay for a doctor visit is proposed - the biggest whinging noise comes from the Public who are using it. It's not welfare - it's tax deductions that the Gubb have introduced.

The whining public always want the Gubb to do something about the economy/deficit/state of affairs, jobs, cost of everything; but are the most reluctant to put their hand up for some hard yards.

Irrespective of that; this thread is not so much about what I think about who gets what perks - everyone here already knows I'm about everyone getting off their @rse and contributing to their Society - and be rewqarde3d for the effort...if that makes the Gina Reinharts of the word a billionaire; good luck to her...I wish it was me.

I hate bludgers and welfare scammers more than everyone here combined.

This thread is about the equation; how do we fix it, because from my calcs; the direction is headed for a messy end, currently.

 

[Angel]

Ms Reinhardt's companies mightn't need a diesel subsidy but ask Topcropper and the other farmers how much diesel they use in their tractors. She is a one-off person - OK, they would have more than one tractor - but how many small business farmers are there across the country?

Did anyone see Q&A this week? I watched some of it. The lady from Big Super and Alan Jones both spoke common sense (I don't usually like what AJ has to say), they asked the same questions that we are asking here.

 

[LibGS]

Folks like you would like to see the golden goose dead, methinks.

Then you think manure. I have a different approach to society. We know for a fact that inequality leads to drag on economies. And you and your kind love to perpetuate it. I think for the next thousand years, not to my next customer.

 

[BayView]

Then you think crap.

Well, explain your position.

Is your mindset that Companies need encouragement, or are they evil monsters who rip off the little guys, are greedy and should be punished, and so forth?

How do you see the problem of the deficit being resolved?

One thing I forgot to mention; we also have a decent immigration rate into Aus. I don't think this is helping the equation; where are the jobs coming from to support the increase in numbers?

Surely this is going to increase our welfare cost even further? Not necessarily directly to those folks arriving each week, but overall? - more heads, and no increase in jobs to support the heads..

 

[Scott No Mates]

But you have no problem with corporate welfare and the perks that our tax dollars pay for? Gina and BHP need a deisel subsidy? Really? Gosh she's a battler.

Do you understand what the diesel rebate is all about LibGS? It is a rebate given to farmers & mining companies to compensate for the fact that they use diesel machinery which doesn't actually use roads. It is an impost on transport companies which have heavy trucks and regular users of diesel which use our road system. Nothing about how much an industry turns over or how poor they are.

 

[LibGS]

1) Companies who need it, need encouragement. Remember the idea of lifters and leaners?

2) Jobs need to be decently paid so that it is an incentive to work. Also if you can't afford to pay decent wages, your business is not viable. Also see the Harvester judgement, it IS one of the pillars of Australian society.

3) Govt needs to steer economy into more sustainable and clean techs. Australia has a reputation for clean agricultural produce. And people in Asia as they get richer will want more.

4) Education. "Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes, we need gigantic, monumental changes. Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge to its citizens, just like national defense." Quote from the West Wing. BTW Should I get a subsidy for having a private security guard if I don't trust the police to protect me?

5) R&D. What on earth was the village idiot Abbott thinking when he chopped the CSIRO and reduced R&D tax breaks.

6) Mining tax. A must. We get only 20% of the total income for our rocks. A modest 5%-10% mining tax without the dodgy exemptions is the go. Go check out Norway's sovereign wealth fund.

7) Carbon Tax. An absolute must. The country needs to change direction to more renewable tech. There will be a time when humanity starts to actually realise how bad the Climate Change situation is. (Deniers, shut up and publish your findings, then I will believe you). Jobs growth from this in high tech green jobs would be huge.

8) Negative Gearing. What a rort. Apply it only to NEW housing. That will increase supply.

9) Super concessions. The age pension currently costs $39 billion and superannuation tax concessions will cost the budget around $35 billion in 2013-14. The Commonwealth bill for these concessions is projected to rise at a staggering 12 per cent annually to be $50.7 billion in 2016-17. And the overwhelming majority of this assistance flows to high-income earners.