Bicycle share schemes: the way of the future?

[caz]

I think the idea sounds great. When we were in Copenhagen 7 years ago, we were anticipating using this system to get around. We never once saw an available bike. The ones left were all damaged or vadalised. Maybe Aussies aren't the only ones.
Apparently a lot of people would just permanently hire (take) a bike. Alot had a parts removed to ensure you had the bike when you got back.

Needless to say we walked every where.
The bike lanes over there were just awesome. I wish we had that here.
It would also be great if cyclists did obey road rules.

 

[Mooze]

Leikela - if the cyclists stress you so much on beach rd why not take an alternate route?
Beach Rd is renowned for the number of cyclists on it (I'm not even from Melbourne and I know that). If they're adding that much time to your trip surely it would be more efficient to take a different route.

Also the moving as far up the left hand side of the lane to the front of traffic is legal for cyclists and motorcyclists.

 

[peteb]

why take another way to work ... just because some bike riders are in her way ....

she has right of way because she is in a hurry and the bike riders are just out cruising around !

the mentality of some road users really confuses me sometimes.

 

[House_Keeper]

....

House_Keeper you got it right when you said we don't have the infrastructure in place to have the bike schemes in place as you mentioned earlier. Roads should be wider with a bike lane (and I mean a proper bike lane, one that pedestrians don't use) and cyclists should have to use them (baffles me why some don't use them on Kerferd/Albert Road though). Then everyone can use the roads happily and safely!

I'm glad we agree on something. If only we could have adequate cycling infrastructure in Australia, we wouldn't be talking about animosity between cyclists and motorists.

Why doesn't our govt build the necessary infrastructure? I don't know. Some people claim that it is "too expensive". That is not true when you take into account the health benefits of cycling. Obesity costs us 58 BILLIONS per year. A cycling culture could lower than bill significantly. I believe that cycling paths are cheaper than the medical bill of an unhealthy population.

Because of our govt lack of foresight in this matter, we are forced into a situation where two type of traffic travelling at very different speed must coexist. That is a bad idea, prone to accidents. As a cyclist on a main road, I almost fear the passage of every car, hoping nobody will make a mistake.

Not all drivers behave poorly, and not all cyclist behave well. Travelling mostly on secondary roads, I have found that most drivers behave respectfully. Maybe somebody travelling on main road will have a different experience. I have seen cyclists do silly things. A lot of cyclists are teenagers, you need to take that into account.

There is a huge imbalance in that relationship though. If anything goes wrong, it is the cyclist who risks going to hospital. That is why I believe car drivers ought to be extra careful of cyclists, irrespective of what they may think of them.

I hope you will never have to face the situation of having killed a cyclist by hitting it from behind. This is not some something easy to live with. This is the most common way to get killed as a cyclist. Most of the time, it is the vehicle driver who did not see the cyclist. There is not much cyclists can do to reduce that risk. Helmets are useless in this type of accidents. Wearing visible clothing helps, but only to some degree.

I would have hoped that politicians could have shown a bit of leadership on this issue. Sadly, some of them are not that smart.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ghts-as-motorists-on-roads-20091111-i7wf.html
This is a rant from Car Scully, ex-minister of roads in the NSW govt. The worst govt we ever had. Even by the low standards of this govt, Mr Scully got kicked out in 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Scully
When I read that, I thought that somebody at that level of government could not be that stupid. He must be thinking he will get some political advantages from pandering to the car drivers. Maybe he plans to go for election in the western suburbs of Sydney.

Mr. Scully claimed to have built many bicycle paths in Sydney. A few have been built. The only problem is that they don't connect with each other, or form any kind of sensible network. The bicycle paths were build where it was convenient to build them, not where they were needed. Ever heard of a customer-driven approach, Mr. Scully? It shouldn't be that hard to figure out that a connected network of bicycle paths leading to the major work places and shopping places would have a good chance of encouraging more cycling. Instead, Mr. Scully built a few isolated bicycle paths, and tells cyclists to get of the road. GET OUT OF MY WAY CYCLISTS! GO AND PLAY IN THIS FAR AWAY BICYCLE PATH WE BUILT ESPECIALLY FOR YOU.

It is clear that Mr Scully has NO IDEA that less people on bicycles mean more traffic jams. For a former minister of roads, that is unbelievable. If he manages to scare off all the cyclists as he wants, there will be more traffic jams for everybody. The lonely brave cyclist will be able to ride slowly through the traffic jam. At least, there won't be a large speed difference between cars & cyclists with this brilliant idea.

Reading this article makes me sad, because many people will be influenced by it. This can only make already hostile car drivers more aggressive. I believe it is irresponsible for a person of that standing to publish something like that.

That is the end of my long rant against this article. I'm afraid my comments won't be published in the herald though.

Whatever you do, please remember that lives are at risk when cyclists are forced to share the road.

And please don't join Mr Scully in this despicable car pandering behavior. Nobody is better off because of it, not even the car drivers.

Cheers,

 

[HiEquity]

Whatever you do, please remember that lives are at risk when cyclists are forced to share the road.

Hi House Keeper

A good post! I agree except for this bit - cyclists can and often should choose to share the road. Riding on footpaths is illegal. Using the road has been perfectly legal for cyclists since Federation (freeways excluded for good reason). It has been and will continue to be a good option for a whole host of reasons.

It seems both cyclists (and I agree I have seen some do some pretty stupid things) and drivers (ditto) need to accept that and take a bit of time out of their day to make sharing the road that much more pleasant for everyone.

 

[BV]

freeways excluded for good reason.

Actually freeways would be a good option for cyclists, and especially for large cities where vacant land is scarce and car traffic is heavy.
Ofcourse cyclists would need their own dedicated and isolated lane but that's a cheap option for the government because a bicycle lane won't need all the preparation and reinforcing a car lane requires

 

[HomeBuyAU]

There is a huge imbalance in that relationship though. If anything goes wrong, it is the cyclist who risks going to hospital. That is why I believe car drivers ought to be extra careful of cyclists, irrespective of what they may think of them.

Yes this is exactly right and the big problem. The only thing motorists have to worry about is been late where cyclists are mainly concerned with surviving through the day and making it home alive.

Yes you are spot on about the stupidity of cycle paths that are not connected and are scattered in weird parts in the cities and towns. No planning whatsoever.

 

[BV]

Yes you are spot on about the stupidity of cycle paths that are not connected and are scattered in weird parts in the cities and towns. No planning whatsoever.

This says it all

 

[GreatPig]

someone is bound to get knocked over by a car, and will sue the Gubbmint for providing the opportunity (the hire bikes) to get injured/killed, and that'll be the end of it

Already happened back in 1990 (although not hit by a car).

The victim was Leo McLeay, the speaker of the house in Canberra, who sued his own department, getting $65K if I remember rightly.

GP

 

[GreatPig]

If anything goes wrong, it is the cyclist who risks going to hospital. That is why I believe car drivers ought to be extra careful of cyclists

I have a somewhat different thought on this subject, having been a cyclist for many years, although not so much in and around Sydney.

To me, there's road rules and there's survival. Survival is at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid, while road rules don't even make it in there as far as I'm concerned. My survival is my responsibility, and I'll take whatever action is necessary to ensure it.

When it comes to accidents involving bicycles and trucks, I will gladly give up all and every right I have to share the road to avoid one (although I may well curse and swear afterwards to let off steam ). Same applies if I'm driving a car too. While I've only read the few things about that guy Michael that have been posted here, weaving out around a parked vehicle without looking with what is obviously a heavy vehicle coming up behind is about as stupid as it comes - qualifying for a candidacy for a Darwin award in my opinion. It doesn't matter who was legally in the right, from a survival point of view, the cyclist is always in the wrong.

That's also why I have no qualms about breaking some road rules on a bicycle. Despite the right-to-share laws, arterial roads are designed for high speed vehicles, not bicycles, and while I will accept my right when I can, I'm certainly not going to argue with anyone about it while I'm out riding. Being right won't score you any kudos with St Peter.

So yes, it would be nice if motorists (of which I am also one) would take greater care around cyclists, but people are primarily responsible for their own safety. Of course a few accidents end up being completely unavoidable for one party, but I think many accidents where the other party was legally at fault could well have been avoided if the victim had put more effort into awareness of his surroundings and his own safety.

GP

 

[House_Keeper]

That's also why I have no qualms about breaking some road rules on a bicycle. Despite the right-to-share laws, arterial roads are designed for high speed vehicles, not bicycles, and while I will accept my right when I can, I'm certainly not going to argue with anyone about it while I'm out riding. Being right won't score you any kudos with St Peter.

So yes, it would be nice if motorists (of which I am also one) would take greater care around cyclists, but people are primarily responsible for their own safety. Of course a few accidents end up being completely unavoidable for one party, but I think many accidents where the other party was legally at fault could well have been avoided if the victim had put more effort into awareness of his surroundings and his own safety.

GP

Very true. That's why I don't ride on main roads. Drivers expect to be able to zoom on them at around 70 km/h. No matter what legal right I may have to ride on them, I don't like to take that chance.

While I would prefer others to observe the road rules and pay attention while driving, I certainly don't rely on it. That is suicide. I drive or ride defensively, getting ready for other vehicles to do the wrong thing. I see it happen far too often, with people chatting on the phone or among themselves while barely paying attention to the road. Taxis & van drivers are also a special category to watch carefully.

Unfortunately, some people feel far too safe in car, protected with this collapsible steel cage. As a bicycle, not much you can do except stay away from them.

Cheers,

 

[HomeBuyAU]

Yes I ride in survival mode as well, my safety is far more important than road rules. I will always use cycle paths if they are there otherwise I will use the kerb grass and then footpaths if that is all I have. I ride a modified racing mountain bike as it can jump kurbs and gutters as that is where I ride most of the time. I'm also just as careful to avoid running into any pedestrians and slow right down when I see any plus I carefully keep an eye on concealed drive ways and streets. I only ride on the road when I have to or it is quiet and safe. If I do ride on the road I get off as fast as I can and I will be looking over my shoulder as I ride to make sure no clowns are going to rear end me.

 

[AlmostBob]

Quote:
Now for those of you who are not familiar with my accident, I will give you a brief synopsis of what has been accepted to have happened. I was performing a training ride on Beach Road in June last year. I was about 5 km from home having completed the hard riding in my training ride and was cooling down. As I was heading up a small rise I heard a large vehicle from behind approaching me. There was a parked four-wheel-drive in front of me that I needed to go around. The truck struck me on the right hand and wrist towards the tail end of the truck. This caused my hand to be dislodged from the handlebars and I lost control of my bicycle. I remember the sheer fright at this point and nothing thereafter. Evidently following this loss of control I collided with the parked four-wheel-drive and broke my neck and jaw. My stay in hospital is what followed including an induced coma for 12 days.

I've read this again so if i'm grossly missinterpreting things, i'd guess that many other readers would also be doing the same. Perhaps a revision of this brief synopsis would be an idea?

Quote:
There are a number of things about this accident that I think could have been avoided. One is obviously the use of Beach Road by a truck on the weekend...

That's the same as saying that beach road is there only for bicyclists. Are cars allowed to use the road?

Quote:
...the other is the issue of cyclists needing to duck in and out to go past parked vehicles. It is this last issue which I believe creates a lot of frustration for both the cyclists and the motorists.

Bikes do not need to duck in and out, they need to change langes properly, following the law here would be a great idea for everyone, including anyone that has had an unfortunate accident, and doesn't wish for it to happen again.

Beach Road is of course the posted OD route from West to East,
Westgate bridge
Port Melbourne
Beach Rd
South Rd

The truck, any truck that may be over weight, over size, on weekends, weekdays, is required to go that way, even though it adds time and travel to the trip.
I drive trucks
used to drive trucks in Melbourne
left rubber from 84 tyres on Beach road when a cyclist cut in front of 1600 tons of OD steel towed by 4 trucks pushed by 3 trucks, and with police outriders stopping traffic at every intersection.

Ducking around a parked car doesnt cut it, its stupid, no other road user would expect to change lanes without looking, and then have the accident be somebody else's fault

 

[BayView]

Speaking of Beach rd, and now our beloved Pt. Nepean rd - both which are now heavily frequented (and growing) by bike riders....

Is it only me? who finds it incredibly amusing to see thousands of purely amateur riders, out for a ride, stopping for a latte at the various cafes every so often...

But dressed up like they are competing in the Tour De France.

I don't get it.

I mean; I bike ride too (love the Arthur's Seat rd climb ), but a simple t-shirt and a pair of runners and bike shorts do the job.

 

[vincenzo]

I'm tempted to risk the fines and record the antics i see on my way into the city in the morning, and on the way out in the arvo, and then put it up on youtube... but i won't.

None of these misbehaving bicycle riders risking their lives just to save a few seconds are teenagers either. Everything from cutting off pedestrians on the sidewalks, to cutting off cars on the road, and then a few meters up the road, you also get to hear them swear their head off at someone who is in their way.

 

[House_Keeper]

I'm tempted to risk the fines and record the antics i see on my way into the city in the morning, and on the way out in the arvo, and then put it up on youtube... but i won't.

None of these misbehaving bicycle riders risking their lives just to save a few seconds are teenagers either. Everything from cutting off pedestrians on the sidewalks, to cutting off cars on the road, and then a few meters up the road, you also get to hear them swear their head off at someone who is in their way.

Maybe you should do it.

This would be a good way to shame their behavior.

Respect has to be both way. Nobody 'owns' the road, it is shared public space.

 

[vincenzo]

Maybe you should do it.

This would be a good way to shame their behavior.

Respect has to be both way. Nobody 'owns' the road, it is shared public space.

This morning i saw about ~10 riders cruising along in the bike lane, approaching an intersection, where the last of the cars had finished passing, so the cyclists sailed on through the red. The light turned green a couple of seconds later. [SIZE="-5"]If say there was a car that turned right after the last of the traffic passed through for example, then we'd probably have some dead or seriously injured riders, but no incidents this time.[/SIZE]

So they are all cruising along, and the traffic is now catching up with them... but wait, they are starting to spread out, and are merging into the neighbouring lane... and then the next one... all i can see are red brake lights lighting up, and all four lanes of st kilda rd are on hold as these riders move from the far left bike lane to the far right lane - without a single headcheck or hand signal.

I could have recorded them, but sorry, i don't feel like risking the fine I'd never catch the really bad riders in time anyway, that jump out from footpaths, behind other cars, from any lane, etc.. This little story will have to do.

Cyclists may not own the road, but a minority love the guilt free recklessness since it's only their own safety they are risking compared to a car, suv, or bigger driving that way. They also seem to love exploiting the sympathy card: C'mon cars, have a little pity for me, i'm a vulnerable cyclist, and you're safe in your steel cage! Just let me through, it will only cost you a few seconds, and it will save my life!

To me this behaviour reminds me alot of the beggars in the city asking me for a couple of dollars, since they are starving/just need to get home/whatever, and just a little bit of my spare change will help them so much. I nearly gave a girl a couple of dollars once because i felt sorry for her, but then she actually told me what she was going to do with it!