Bloomberg story, pretty dire.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Australia Faces `Once-in-100-Year' Housing Slump as Prices Fall

By Jacob Greber
July 31 (Bloomberg) -- Australia may be headed for a
housing recession similar to those roiling the U.S. and U.K.
The cause is a combination of rising default rates, the
biggest drop in home prices in five years, the highest
borrowing costs in a decade and slowing economic growth.
Prices in the property market -- described by the
International Monetary Fund in April as one of the world's most
``overvalued'' -- will fall 30 percent by 2010, according to
Gerard Minack, senior economist at Morgan Stanley in Sydney.
Prices dropped in all of Australia's major cities last month
for the first time since just before the Great Depression.
``I panicked'' when the figures came in, said John
Edwards, chief executive officer of Residex Ltd., a Sydney
company that tracks property prices. ``We've been doing this
for 20 years and have data that goes as far back as 1865, and
it's really abnormal.''
Prices fell in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth,
Adelaide, Darwin, Hobart and Canberra by between 0.6 percent
and 2.2 percent, according to Residex. The national median
house price fell almost 3 percent to A$458,000 ($435,000).
``Australia is headed for a once-in-100-year real-estate
slump,'' Edwards said. ``I have never seen the convergence of
so many negatives.''
Rising property prices drove a decade-long consumer
spending boom that saw Australia's $1 trillion economy weather
fallout from the 1997 Asian financial crisis and the collapse
of Internet stocks in 2000.

Soaring Prices

Household debt has almost doubled since 1999 to around 160
percent of incomes, a higher ratio than in the U.S. and U.K.,
according to AMP Capital Investors. The median national house
price soared about 140 percent in the same period.
``By every metric I can think of, Australian houses are
too expensive,'' Minack said, costing an average of six years'
earnings, double what Americans paid before their property
market started falling in 2006.
The Washington-based IMF says Australian house prices were
overvalued by almost 25 percent in the decade through 2007 when
compared with household income and ability to pay debt. Only
Ireland, the Netherlands and the U.K. were higher.
A crash would ``result in a significant negative wealth
shock'' for Australians, whose spending accounts for about 60
percent of the economy, Minack said. While growth is expected
to continue for a 17th straight year in 2008, the Reserve Bank
of Australia forecasts it will slow to 2.25 percent from 3.9
percent in 2007.

Bank Stocks

A housing recession may also trigger losses at lenders
including Commonwealth Bank of Australia and Westpac Banking
Corp., whose stock has fallen more than 20 percent this year.
The nation's five largest lenders have added an average
105 basis points to mortgage rates so far in 2008 as the global
credit squeeze drove up funding costs. They were also reacting
to moves by central bank Governor Glenn Stevens, who raised the
benchmark lending rate twice this year by a total of 50 basis
points to a 12-year high of 7.25 percent to curb inflation.
Prices gained 4.5 percent in the second quarter from a year
earlier, the fastest pace since 2001.
The increases have added A$250 to monthly payments on an
average A$250,000 home loan, according to the Real Estate
Institute. Households spent 38 percent of their incomes on
mortgage payments in the March quarter, the most in the 22
years the institute has measured affordability.

`Mortgage Stress'

Sydney research company Fujitsu Consulting says 923,000
households will face ``mortgage stress'' by September, up from
171,000 a year earlier who said they were having trouble
repaying loans. Australia's population is 21 million, and 6.9
million households have mortgages.
As the pressure mounts, consumers are spending less on
televisions, cars and vacations, hurting retailers including
department store chain David Jones Ltd.
Ratings agency Standard & Poor's reported July 23 that
payments more than 30 days late on so-called prime home loans
increased for a sixth month to a record 1.49 percent in May.
Some 14.5 percent of subprime loans were 30 days late, with 7.9
percent more than 90 days late.
John McGrath, chief executive officer of McGrath Estate
Agents in Sydney, said the number of unsold homes in his market
is rising, auction rates are falling and the time it takes to
sell properties is up 50 percent from a year ago to 45 days.
``We're not even in the ballpark when it comes to
affording a house in Sydney,'' said Anthony Duckworth, 30, a
married father of one who works for a catering company.

Commuting Distance

With A$160,000 in savings, he would need a A$600,000
mortgage to buy a family home in Australia's biggest city --
double what he can afford. So he plans to buy north of Sydney
and commute.
The central bank says lending grew in May at the slowest
annual pace since 1991, when the property market collapsed amid
mortgage rates as high as 18 percent. Home-loan approvals
dropped by the most in eight years.
``It's like a debt tsunami out there,'' said Sandra Saker,
who manages a Salvation Army service for families in Sydney
overwhelmed by financial problems. ``Five years ago, the
maximum debt people came in with was about A$200,000. Now we
see people coming in with over A$1 million.''

For related news:
Australian economy stories NI AUECO BN <GO>
Stories about the Reserve Bank of Australia NI RBA <GO>
News search on property markets STNI HOUSINGMKT <GO>

--Editors: John McCluskey, Melinda Grenier.

To contact the reporter for this story:
Jacob Greber in Sydney at +61-2-9777-8635 or
[email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story:
David Tweed at +81-3-3201-2494 or
[email protected]
 
It amazes me that these lines come out about, 1 in 100 years.

We are entering a period in global financial history that is unprecedented, so how does the 100 years thing fit?

As well considered as John Edwards is, I still think he is savvy enough to realize research like his will be more in demand during uncertain times.

Despite all that, I agree with the article's general sentiment.
 
``We're not even in the ballpark when it comes to
affording a house in Sydney,'' said Anthony Duckworth, 30, a
married father of one who works for a catering company.

Commuting Distance

With A$160,000 in savings, he would need a A$600,000
mortgage to buy a family home in Australia's biggest city --
double what he can afford. So he plans to buy north of Sydney
and commute.

Maybe he should lower his sights?
A $160K deposit on a $400K house (and there are thousands at that price in decent areas in Sydney) might make more sense?
 
With A$160,000 in savings, he would need a A$600,000
mortgage to buy a family home in Australia's biggest city --
double what he can afford. So he plans to buy north of Sydney
and commute.

pfftt... what rubbish, he needs to lower his expectations... can buy house in north west sydney brand new for 500k. so only needs $350k loan for it and thats a brand new house.
 
move to Perth and he could easily have over 50% equity. mind you looking at what some members have bought in western sydney recently they could probably have close to 100%!

sounds good tho, 1 in 100 year storm, didn't that happen on Point Break?

my main problem with the analysis is that if the economy is slowing so much they could easily drop rates to boost it. oil is not 100% of our CPI
 
With A$160,000 in savings, he would need a A$600,000
mortgage to buy a family home in Australia's biggest city --
double what he can afford. So he plans to buy north of Sydney
and commute.

pfftt... what rubbish, he needs to lower his expectations... can buy house in north west sydney brand new for 500k. so only needs $350k loan for it and thats a brand new house.

Yes, I think it is ridiculous for a FHB to take on a mortgage of $600k.

Alternatively, if he really wants to live closer to CBD, buy a unit instead! A lot of people got onto the property ladder by buying a one-bedder or two-bedder unit. With a young child, a two-bedder unit should be fine for a few years (unless a second one comes along real soon).
 
my main problem with the analysis is that if the economy is slowing so much they could easily drop rates to boost it

Hasn't worked in the US, they have been dropping rates, AND their house prices have been dropping.

Won't work here.

If rates drop here, inflation will increase even faster, eroding the *real* value of properties (but possibly helping avoid negative nominal price drops).
 
Strange, Fin Review (APM) says Adelaide prices have gone up by 0.4% in the June quarter. But I guess it makes for better reading when you say every major Aust. city went down. :rolleyes:
 
Hasn't worked in the US, they have been dropping rates, AND their house prices have been dropping.

Won't work here.

If rates drop here, inflation will increase even faster, eroding the *real* value of properties (but possibly helping avoid negative nominal price drops).

the article said our economy is slowing rapidly and this was given as a reason why house prices would fall. I am saying that dropping our interest rate will boost the economy, I don't believe anyone is arguing that point? people need to draw their own conclusions about the nexus between IRs and property prices
 
So in this thread today we have John Edwards quoted as saying this:

``I panicked'' when the figures came in, said John
Edwards, chief executive officer of Residex Ltd., a Sydney
company that tracks property prices. ``We've been doing this
for 20 years and have data that goes as far back as 1865, and
it's really abnormal.''
Prices fell in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth,
Adelaide, Darwin, Hobart and Canberra by between 0.6 percent
and 2.2 percent, according to Residex. The national median
house price fell almost 3 percent to A$458,000 ($435,000).
``Australia is headed for a once-in-100-year real-estate
slump,'' Edwards said. ``I have never seen the convergence of
so many negatives.''

And in another thread today he's quoted as saying this:

Australia was now "a nation of economic hypochondriacs", the chief executive of property monitoring firm Residex, John Edwards, said yesterday.

The housing market was caught up in a wave of nervousness created by the jittery sharemarket, he said, but Sydney house prices would inch up by about 3 per cent a year in the next five years.

We're accustomed to experts not always agreeing with eachother. I wish they wouldn't contradict themselves though.
 
LOL ^^^

lets forget to mention the exorbitant boom time we all had - at different times - across the country.

the graphs for property values look almost exactly like Fortescue Metals' share chart.

BIG boom, lots of profit taking, now starting to see some stabilisation a month after it all started.
 

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Prices dropped in all of Australia's major cities last month
for the first time since just before the Great Depression.

So not since 1928 have we seen all capital cities prices drop. That means we have had our 1 in 100 year price crash already doesn't it? The statement "1 in 100 year correction" is meaningless then.........
 
Hasn't worked in the US, they have been dropping rates, AND their house prices have been dropping.

Won't work here.

If rates drop here, inflation will increase even faster, eroding the *real* value of properties (but possibly helping avoid negative nominal price drops).

One of the problems in the US now is the qualifying criteria for a traditional loan.

Most of the sub-prime products are gone from the shelves, and with the average US citizen spending 105% of their income, and much of it on credit cards, it leaves very few left to qualify for a loan - even at cheap interest rates.

Hence, there are no buyers for the houses that need to be sold.

The other factor in the US, that doesn't have as much of an impact here (yet) is student loans.

The average person comes out of "college" (Uni) with around $50K of loans to repay. Nurses are up around $70k, doctors around $250k and so on.

I think the average credit card debt is around $5k per person over there now, and most kids leave college with at least one c/c.
 
So not since 1928 have we seen all capital cities prices drop. That means we have had our 1 in 100 year price crash already doesn't it? The statement "1 in 100 year correction" is meaningless then.........


The other thing about a median drop is there are a lot less sales being transacted currently, and it would make sense than many of them are going to be in the middle-lower price brackets due to interest rates/buyer sentiment etc.

So, you have fewer buyers trying to spend less, or can't qualify for more.

I don't pay too much attention to talk of median price changes.

From my experience (happily) property can, and does perform outside the medians.
 
August 5th cant come soon enough.

Ok lets split this into opinions and facts and look at what the facts really tell us.

---

Reading the facts on their own, all its really saying is that interest rates are currently high and the facts are the consequences of those high rates. Not a lot of new information there.


Opinions:
*Australia Faces `Once-in-100-Year' Housing Slump as Prices Fall
*Australia may be headed for a housing recession similar to those roiling the U.S. and U.K.
*Prices in the property market --described by the International Monetary Fund in April as one of the world's most ``overvalued'' -- will fall 30 percent by 2010
*``Australia is headed for a once-in-100-year real-estate slump,'' Edwards said. ``I have never seen the convergence of so many negatives.''
*``By every metric I can think of, Australian houses are too expensive,'' Minack said, costing an average of six years' earnings, double what Americans paid before their property market started falling in 2006.
*The Washington-based IMF says Australian house prices were
overvalued by almost 25 percent in the decade through 2007 when
compared with household income and ability to pay debt. Only Ireland, the Netherlands and the U.K. were higher.
*A crash would ``result in a significant negative wealth shock'' for Australians, whose spending accounts for about 60 percent of the economy, Minack said.
*While growth is expected to continue for a 17th straight year in 2008, the Reserve Bank of Australia forecasts it will slow to 2.25 percent from 3.9
percent in 2007.
*A housing recession may also trigger losses at lenders including Commonwealth Bank of Australia and Westpac Banking Corp., whose stock has fallen more than 20 percent this year.
*Sydney research company Fujitsu Consulting says 923,000 households will face ``mortgage stress'' by September, up from 171,000 a year earlier who said they were having trouble repaying loans.
*``It's like a debt tsunami out there,'' said Sandra Saker, who manages a Salvation Army service for families in Sydney overwhelmed by financial problems.

Facts:
*rising default rates
*the biggest drop in home prices in five years
*the highest borrowing costs in a decade
*slowing economic growth
*Prices dropped in all of Australia's major cities last month for the first time since just before the Great Depression.
*Prices fell in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, Darwin, Hobart and Canberra by between 0.6 percent and 2.2 percent, according to Residex. *The national median house price fell almost 3 percent to A$458,000 ($435,000).
*Household debt has almost doubled since 1999 to around 160 percent of incomes, a higher ratio than in the U.S. and U.K., according to AMP Capital Investors.
*The median national house price soared about 140 percent in the same period.
*The nation's five largest lenders have added an average 105 basis points to mortgage rates so far in 2008 as the global credit squeeze drove up funding costs. They were also reacting to moves by central bank Governor Glenn Stevens, who raised the benchmark lending rate twice this year by a total of 50 basis points to a 12-year high of 7.25 percent to curb inflation.
*Households spent 38 percent of their incomes on mortgage payments in the March quarter, the most in the 22 years the institute has measured affordability.
*Ratings agency Standard & Poor's reported July 23 that payments more than 30 days late on so-called prime home loans increased for a sixth month to a record 1.49 percent in May. Some 14.5 percent of subprime loans were 30 days late, with 7.9 percent more than 90 days late.
*The central bank says lending grew in May at the slowest annual pace since 1991, when the property market collapsed amid mortgage rates as high as 18 percent. Home-loan approvals dropped by the most in eight years.
 
So not since 1928 have we seen all capital cities prices drop. That means we have had our 1 in 100 year price crash already doesn't it? The statement "1 in 100 year correction" is meaningless then.........

That's... An interesting comment.

The average person has a car accident every 7 years.

If you have not had a car accident in 7 years, please drive towards a brick wall at 100km/h

In the millisecond that the front fender is sufficiently deformed to be called "a car accident", declare that you've had your car accident for this 7 years, and the 100km/h momentum will be, effectively meaningless. Avoid the subsequent crash.

If only it were that easy.
 
You're referring the to last Qtr, whereas the article is referring to the last month.

I stand corrected. :D

Now if only the could break it down further and tell us how much our houses are rising/falling each day. Hell, I've got my banker on spead dial; make it every hour! :p
 
I reckon the market in SA has turned for sure Steve...been to any opens lately? You can hear the crickets chirping....

Bring on the rate drops...

R:)
 
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