Blowfor Frankston ?

Ok, now I'm just ready to laugh at you like everyone else. :D

And for the record, you couldn't pay me to live in Toorak!

haha...I am just laughing at the MERE fact that I have no idea why you are laughing (probably a symptom of distress and having nothing else to say).

'You couldn't pay me to live in Toorak' What the heck is that supposed to mean? Toorak is not good enough for you and you'd rather live in Frankston with all the gypsies, skinheads, drug traffickers and youth gangs?
 
'You couldn't pay me to live in Toorak' What the heck is that supposed to mean? Toorak is not good enough for you and you'd rather live in Frankston with all the gypsies, skinheads, drug traffickers and youth gangs?

It means I would never choose to live in Toorak, thought it was a simple enough statement. I simply don't like it! Nor would I choose to live in Frankston (although to be honest, if I had to choose between the two - forgetting monetary value, I'd probably go one of the nice estates in Frankston).
 
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or positive?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/diy-police-force-for-frankston/story-e6frf7jo-1225830272697

Council hiring security guards to improve Frankston's streets has collateral damage, being that the general population now has 'Frankston-violence to much for police' in their heads.

Could this be a negative for price growth down there?

Firstly let me state that i have no idea what the underlying fundamental value of property is worth in frankston.

However these sought of articles are fantastic for those that do have a clear view on intrinsic value.

In the share market these sought of issues are what i term 'operational issues', they are NOT STRATEGIC.

If Mr market gets scared off because of operational issues i come out guns blazing if the price is significantly below my intrinsic value (giving me my margin of safety).

Why?
operational issues are easily fixed over the long term, strategic issues are more difficult to rectify.

Its very important in my opinion to be able to correctly identify what 'negatives' are operational and what are strategic.
For value players this is the essential difference between picking up an asset cheap and catching a 'falling knife' (remember just because something is cheap doesnt mean it is value).

Hope this helps those people looking at frankston.
 
2. 13 Loch St, Camberwell

http://www.domain.com.au/Public/Art...ng start to 2010 as bidders come out in force

$890K reserve and sold for $1.34mil

That is like over 50% above reserve.

Hi Deehwa,

I think regarding this sale the reason why it went so far above reserve is because it had been underquoted. The handful of streets around Loch St and Broadway sell a very significant premium to anything else in Camberwell and you'll get nothing other than units under $1.2-$1.3million. Whilst this was a duplex on a half block of land there was nothing particularly amazing about the sale despite the agents claims.

I don't know about the other two sales specifically because I don't know Albert Park or Port Melbourne as well as Camberwell but when a house sells for 70% above the quote the issue is generally with the agent.

Another thing I would say is that the premium inner areas tanked during the GFC, down 20%-30%, so some of the people who had bought at the worst points would have 30%-40%+ gains in a year. You do have the factor in how badly those areas did at the end of 08 though as areas further from the city didn’t see significant declines like that.

(excuse this being my first post, I had an old account but had an email address change so can't access it)

Best regards,

Paul
 
I am pretty thick skinned, haha and thrive under insults so bring it on!

Hey, I didn't insult you. I must admit, reading your stuff does makes me laugh(laughing at you, not with you like the rest of us).

You're good value though, that's for sure. Just remember to keep an open mind and you'll be right.
 
Hi Deehwa,

I think regarding this sale the reason why it went so far above reserve is because it had been underquoted. The handful of streets around Loch St and Broadway sell a very significant premium to anything else in Camberwell and you'll get nothing other than units under $1.2-$1.3million. Whilst this was a duplex on a half block of land there was nothing particularly amazing about the sale despite the agents claims.

I don't know about the other two sales specifically because I don't know Albert Park or Port Melbourne as well as Camberwell but when a house sells for 70% above the quote the issue is generally with the agent.

Another thing I would say is that the premium inner areas tanked during the GFC, down 20%-30%, so some of the people who had bought at the worst points would have 30%-40%+ gains in a year. You do have the factor in how badly those areas did at the end of 08 though as areas further from the city didn’t see significant declines like that.

(excuse this being my first post, I had an old account but had an email address change so can't access it)

Best regards,

Paul

Yeah, I agree that area around Loch, Broadway, Russell etc. sell extremely well but still exceptional to see the big difference between vendor's reserve and final sold price.

However, this was sold for $1.25mil last year on expression of interest. He couldn't believe it! Probably got sold too quickly for people to realise or there has been a significant leg up from November 2009.

http://www.realestate.com.au/106044835
 
Yeah, I agree that area around Loch, Broadway, Russell etc. sell extremely well but still exceptional to see the big difference between vendor's reserve and final sold price.

It is exceptional, but only in the sense that the agent should have known that the quote/reserve was way too low.

However, this was sold for $1.25mil last year on expression of interest. He couldn't believe it! Probably got sold too quickly for people to realise or there has been a significant leg up from November 2009.

http://www.realestate.com.au/106044835

There is a big difference in land size here, 240 sq for the broadway one versus 344 sqm for loch st.

The other key difference of course are the condition. Broadway is obviously alot more livable though still it is 1980's and needs serious work, and it also has a park.

If you assume land is worth around $4000 sqm based on the loch st sale (ie house worth $0) then the broadway property land value comes to around 950k (ie around 300k for the house which is probably generous).

Personally I wouldn't have called the broadway sale cheap in comparison to the loch st sale. It sounds roughly right to me.
 
I just want to be another person in this thread stating I wouldn't live in Toorak regardless of the funds I had. I don't actually like areas that have a lot of money and little soul. That's the feeling I personally get from Toorak anyway.

I also wouldn't live in Frankston, but mostly due to it's distance from the city. I lived in Chelsea once. It sucked. We had to go to Frankston occassionally to get things. It wasn't so bad. It was better than Chelsea anyway!
 
I prefer neighbouring Armadale over Toorak. I have a 2-bed apartment (IP) there. Even if I could afford the Toorak house I wouldn't buy there (to live) because it's too far from work/family etc. And now isn't the best time anyway, you've already missed out on massive growth, so why would you go in now as the ''greater fool"??, better off looking somewhere further out. Need to get the timing right... hear that DeeHwa?
 
I prefer neighbouring Armadale over Toorak. I have a 2-bed apartment (IP) there. Even if I could afford the Toorak house I wouldn't buy there (to live) because it's too far from work/family etc. And now isn't the best time, you've already missed out on massive growth, so why would you go in now as the ''greater fool", better off looking somewhere further out. Need to get the timing right... hear that DeeHwa?

Toorak and Armadale are next to each other so how could you be 'too far' from work/family?

How do you know that the massive growth will not continue? What if places like Toorak grow even more this year? Doesn't that make you the 'greater fool'? You seem very sure that property is heading for bleak times and according to you, now is NOT the right time to buy in places like Toorak. Care to share your reasoning?

Obviously I don't know what is going to happen (although I predict another year of solid growth at least), but people have often said the same things you have said (i.e. I've missed the boat, I should wait because it is getting so expensive) and we know what has happened to many of these people. Still renting and still saving for their first home...
 
If Toorak has been growing way too fast then I wonder where than leaves Frankston North which has been growing at an even faster rate?
 
Toorak and Armadale are next to each other so how could you be 'too far' from work/family?

How do you know that the massive growth will not continue? What if places like Toorak grow even more this year? Doesn't that make you the 'greater fool'? You seem very sure that property is heading for bleak times and according to you, now is NOT the right time to buy in places like Toorak. Care to share your reasoning?

Obviously I don't know what is going to happen (although I predict another year of solid growth at least), but people have often said the same things you have said (i.e. I've missed the boat, I should wait because it is getting so expensive) and we know what has happened to many of these people. Still renting and still saving for their first home...

Stop and listen for a second.

Re-read the post.

If you still don't get it, I'm afraid you can't be helped.

Your inexperience is pretty obvious.

I hope you can put aside your arrogance and see a way forwards out of your limited thinking.

Best wishes.
 
I just want to be another person in this thread stating I wouldn't live in Toorak regardless of the funds I had. I don't actually like areas that have a lot of money and little soul. That's the feeling I personally get from Toorak anyway.

I also wouldn't live in Frankston, but mostly due to it's distance from the city. I lived in Chelsea once. It sucked. We had to go to Frankston occassionally to get things. It wasn't so bad. It was better than Chelsea anyway!

Personally, I reckon all this 'Toorak snob' and 'little soul' thing is over-exaggerated. We hear all the stories (I have numerous times and I have worked on a number of luxurious mansion developments in Toorak given I work in the property and construction industry to know a thing or too about these feelings) but I think it is more just Toorak residents preferring some privacy away from the glitz and glamour. Many residents of Toorak are either celebrities, business leaders or successful in whatever field/industry they are in so of course, you don't expect them to act aloof and chat to all the neighbours. All in all, it is probably tall poppy syndrome and obviously you'd prefer to be in the position of wealth than not.
 
I wonder why you don't post on other topics DeeHwa... Oh that's right, you don't really know much about anything else!
 
Stop and listen for a second.

Re-read the post.

If you still don't get it, I'm afraid you can't be helped.

Your inexperience is pretty obvious.

I hope you can put aside your arrogance and see a way forwards out of your limited thinking.

Best wishes.

Yes, I misunderstood. Although how does that make my 'inexperience pretty obvious?' Because you have more posts than I do?
 
JIT doesn't LIVE in Armadale - has an IP there.

I don't want to get drawn into this argument DeeHwa, but I took offence to your stating that people on this forum just say they don't want to live in Toorak, Camberwell etc because it's too snobby.

Trust me - some people honestly honestly don't want to live in 'snobby' places. I paid plenty for my well located PPOR in scummy ugly Richmond and wouldn't change it for anything. I love the mix of people and cultures. I personally wouldn't live in Toorak, South Yarra, and definitely not Camberwell.

Reading all this makes me want to invest in Frankston but as it's already experienced a big growth spurt, should it therefore be avoided for new investment?
 
I wonder why you don't post on other topics DeeHwa... Oh that's right, you don't really know much about anything else!

Its because I am too preoccupied dealing with clowns like yourself on this one! I was also preoccupied dealing with people like Sash & Crash, although he has somehow disappeared from this thread (probably only interested in Werribee/Hoppers threads).

Btw, I do post on other threads and/or topics but admittedly, I seem to generate more fanmail on threads like these.
 
JIT doesn't LIVE in Armadale - has an IP there.

I don't want to get drawn into this argument DeeHwa, but I took offence to your stating that people on this forum just say they don't want to live in Toorak, Camberwell etc because it's too snobby.

Trust me - some people honestly honestly don't want to live in 'snobby' places. I paid plenty for my well located PPOR in scummy ugly Richmond and wouldn't change it for anything. I love the mix of people and cultures. I personally wouldn't live in Toorak, South Yarra, and definitely not Camberwell.

Reading all this makes me want to invest in Frankston but as it's already experienced a big growth spurt, should it therefore be avoided for new investment?

I don't want to get drawn into an argument with you Rae. You seem like a decent chick (I think you are a girl going from memory - apparently I remember you being the inner city chick). To make things clear, I did not name specific people so don't feel personally offended. Also, that statement started way back in another thread (Point Cook) and I did not mention anything about Toorak in this thread until some clever poster decided to bring it up when I started saying that 'I also do not get Frankston'.

The initial point was the fact that there was some poster (can't remember who, doesn't matter) who said there are heaps of people who WANTS to live in Point Cook and I replied something along the lines of 'well, this is not true, it is more that they cannot afford anywhere else for what they get and if given a choice, they'd rather have the identical house in Toorak because it is worth more and I made it clear it included any other premium suburb like Brighton, Canterbury etc...' My own message was simply not to confuse 'wanting to live in a particular suburb' with 'only being able to afford such in a particular suburb'. And it annoys me when people defend their choices (in the case of the Point Cook thread) by saying, 'Point Cook is better because it is not snobbish'

Going back to your point, we would never really know for certain whether you would live in Toorak, South Yarra or Camberwell because I assume you are not the financial position to decide anyway or afford to live in those suburbs. It is ok to be honest, I've made it pretty clear to JIT that I can't afford the front fence of Toorak. Perhaps when you have all the money in the world can a rational decision be made. At the moment, all the talk is for illustrative purposes.

Honestly though, if you won the lottery like the British couple, I'd doubt you would still live in your current PPOR but of course you will attempt to dispute me because no one wants to contradict themselves because it will just make themselves look silly.

As I said, nothing against Frankston AS AN INVESTMENT, just that I STILL believe there are better and am STILL not convinced 7 Frankston houses > 1 Toorak houses given what I anticipate to be enormous holding costs that would erode the profit gain as highlighted by Harris.

Look, I am by no means trying to be arrogant or anything, stubborn yes, but you'd expect someone like me to still hold my viewpoint when other viewpoints are not convincing and/or I am STILL able to point out flaws in so and so's arguments. I make mistakes too, and I admit it. I even admit strong arguments (I already acknowledged and agreed with some of what Harris has said) so who is to question the fact I am not 'open-minded'.

Just because I vehemently stick to my viewpoint and it 'seems to yourself' that I just don't get it doesn't mean I have an unlikeable personality, nor laughable and certainly I would think, not arrogant.

Time for bed...shall fight, whoops, I mean discuss another day...
 
Personally, I reckon all this 'Toorak snob' and 'little soul' thing is over-exaggerated.

I don't dislike Toorak because of the snobbery thing, in fact give me a nice beach front house in Brighton and I'll live there tomorrow. In fact, I have more of a problem with two bob snobs who are forever trying to keep up with the Jones'. The ones who don't really have much, but mortgage themselves crazy and buy $70K cars on hire purchase to appear to have it all. I personally think Toorak is over-rated, and I'm not saying it because I'm jealous. The only thing I do really like about Toorak is the beautiful old mansions, but I certainly wouldn't be buying an average home/apartment just so I could say I live in Toorak.

DeeHwa, some people REALLY do prefer to live in the outer suburbs, whether that's Point Cook, Frankston or wherever, I can't believe you are so arrogant and narrow minded to see that. Some people don't like the inner city, over-populated, congested, concrete suburbs and I appreciate that. Whilst in another thread I said I don't see myself ever doing the whole sea/tree change thing and leaving the 'city', I could never live somewhere so closed in and congested. I live minutes from the city now, but it's beach side so feels open and the traffic isn't too bad where I am.
 
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