Boronia vs. Doncaster East

There is a difference between smoking weed and then dropping out of high school (or uni) and working in a factory and smoking weed, but still doing the minimal study, attending your exams and still get a 95+ VCE ENTER because 30mins of study for a typical MHS kid equates to about 1 week of hardcore study for a pea sized brain student out in Melton High (this is for illustrative purposes, haha).

So you were lucky enough to be born academically intelligent... good for you. I have far more respect for someone from Melton with a "pea sized brain" who comes from a poor background, at a state school, works part time at McDonalds to help their family, studies hours every day, achieves the best TER they are capable of and goes on to be successful. I have zero respect for some "intelligent" loser who has everything handed to them and talks down of others who are trying and doing their best. And by the way, I went to a private school and was one of the high achievers.

Already bought a house (judging by the property market, wouldn't be surprised if it is 7 figures now), looking for a 2nd one.

Don't take credit for the house you bought, if you are who I suspect you are (Rocket Man / Shuttle Man / DeeHwa / Who Cares!), Daddy gave you a massive helping hand. Again, I have more respect for one who got themselves through school, worked their backside off and bought their home 100% themselves. If you aren't who I am accusing you of, and you bought the house yourself then I apologise and good on you for that.

On the topic of private and state schools, I went to a state school for a few years and then private. The two didn't even compare, the private school was far superior in every aspect, however that was 15 years ago. With the amount of drugs and bullying in schools, I'd be concerned with any school these days and it would just come down to research on each school individually despite whether it's private or state I think.
 
Shuttle man - did it ever occur to you that know one really knows or cares what MHS stands for? Why would you assume that people know the abbreviated version of the school you went too?

For those that dont know MHS Stands for melbourne high school and for 120 years wasnt really known for its braggard/ts.

it seems that this is changing.

Aussierogue
(Honour the work! - 1985-1988)
 
Rich kiddies who are so insecure that they have to find every excuse to look anyone else down... well. Are just insecure.

Marijuana abuse information - from the Australian State Government.

...

Back to topic. JIT's link to the house... and with the current auction-fever gripping Melbourne, I am not surprised.

It is a lovely place that stands out from the crowd, and has obviously been renovated before the sale. The buyer simply doesn't need to do anything else before moving in.
 
I am naiive for wanting to give my kids the best education that I can afford? I pity your children if that is your line of thinking. Everyone knows that to be successful you have to hang around successful people. Hanging around losers the whole time is unlikely to lead you anywhere but loser-dom.
 
Similarly, I know many people who've bought a house in Balwyn / Nth Balwyn in order to get into the Balwyn High zone. I've never heard the same about Donny...

Just remember, you heard it here first! :)

People are tripping over one another to get into the "zone". Zoning of the high schools in Doncaster and Doncaster East is a recent thing.
 
I am naiive for wanting to give my kids the best education that I can afford? I pity your children if that is your line of thinking. Everyone knows that to be successful you have to hang around successful people. Hanging around losers the whole time is unlikely to lead you anywhere but loser-dom.

You are assuming several things, such as:

* Your children will be successful if they associate with people who are successful

* The children of successful people are also successful

* Successful people send their children to private schools

Therefore sending your child to a private school will make them a success

Now to be a devils advocate here, would it not be desirable for children to see both success and failure, so they see the consequences of the latter much more clearly, and possibly take things less for granted?

If so, could a more diverse environment seen in a state school actually be of benefit?

And of course, this hasn't even answered the question of defining success, on which your child may have their own views different from you.
 
So you were lucky enough to be born academically intelligent... good for you. I have far more respect for someone from Melton with a "pea sized brain" who comes from a poor background, at a state school, works part time at McDonalds to help their family, studies hours every day, achieves the best TER they are capable of and goes on to be successful. I have zero respect for some "intelligent" loser who has everything handed to them and talks down of others who are trying and doing their best. And by the way, I went to a private school and was one of the high achievers.

You have completely missed the point Biggles. I was referring to the difference between those that engage in socially unacceptable behaviour like wagging, smoking crack etc... yet still go on to be 'relatively' successful compared to those that don't. Good on those for having the worst of possible starts (going to Melton High with parents living in poverty) and still being successful (for that I admire too). Btw, nothing was handed down to me either. I went to Fitzroy Primary School and read the article below to get a taste of what it was like there.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/divided-fitzroy-comes-together-20100319-qm99.html

If that was not tough, I don't know what is, hahaha...and yes, most of the guys in my year at Fitzroy Primary eventually dropped out in high school, went into the drug dealing business, a few did some time in jail and many are working in factories getting paid the odd shift minimum wage. Not to mention, you CAN'T pay for Melbourne High. On a side note, if the Melton High boy/girl was intelligent enough, you must wonder why they didn't sit the entrance exam? Too poor to pay the plane ticket into Melbourne?



Don't take credit for the house you bought, if you are who I suspect you are (Rocket Man / Shuttle Man / DeeHwa / Who Cares!), Daddy gave you a massive helping hand. Again, I have more respect for one who got themselves through school, worked their backside off and bought their home 100% themselves. If you aren't who I am accusing you of, and you bought the house yourself then I apologise and good on you for that.

Your suspicion is right. I am one of the 4 choices - Shuttle Man. And no, Daddy didn't give me a hand. Last time I checked, the auctioneer wouldn't accept my dad's hand as a deposit, which was unfortunate because the earning power of my dad's hand over the years would have exceeded the cost of the house anyway.

On the topic of private and state schools, I went to a state school for a few years and then private. The two didn't even compare, the private school was far superior in every aspect, however that was 15 years ago. With the amount of drugs and bullying in schools, I'd be concerned with any school these days and it would just come down to research on each school individually despite whether it's private or state I think.

On the balance of probability, you'd go private > state. Pretty black and white here.
 
You are assuming several things, such as:

* Your children will be successful if they associate with people who are successful

* The children of successful people are also successful

* Successful people send their children to private schools

Therefore sending your child to a private school will make them a success

Now to be a devils advocate here, would it not be desirable for children to see both success and failure, so they see the consequences of the latter much more clearly, and possibly take things less for granted?

If so, could a more diverse environment seen in a state school actually be of benefit?

And of course, this hasn't even answered the question of defining success, on which your child may have their own views different from you.

+1 and a million,

in todays children centered society and parents feeling the need to express their love by spoiling their kids rotten and thinking extra money is the best way to raise their children, I find it funny, they seem to turn their lives over by moving to north balwyn, and sending them to MLC or other grammar schools,

and to see the kids drop out, or get hooked on drugs, or even end up with mediocre ENTERs and end up just doing an average job without really going for anything because they've had everything done for them in their life, I find hilarious, sure you get drop outs and and idiots from non private schools, but I find that in the work place, the ones that have had not such a priviliged upbringing but have given it a big go are the ones that will succeed far in life

on the other hand

I went to both a private and government and state school,

yes, the facilities for the private school were much better,

however, I did much better at a non private school because everything wasn't handed down on to me on a platter, the other kids weren't spoilt little rich kids who the teachers, if they misbehaved , the parents would come running in saying "why have you allowed my kid to misbehave" "it must have been your fault for letting my kid fail",
 
Your point? I would not send my kids to a public school if I could afford it - why let them mix with the wrong crowd just for the sake of a few dollars? These sort of mistakes can destroy/affect a young person's life for a very long time. We have family friends who sent their kid to Balwyn High from a private school because it was 'a good school'. While there he turned to drugs and now his life is absolutely stuffed.

Are you suggesting private schools are immune to drugs?
 
Some of you people amuse me. It's typical tall poppy syndrome.

Are some of you trying to say, on the balance, that a public school like Doncaster High (no mean feat) has a higher average ENTER, higher job prospects, better social circle than Scotch or Melbourne Grammar? Not trying to belittle anyone who went there or who goes there. But are you trying to tell me me that Doncaster High is a better school on account of all things? If it is, I find it absolutely absurd that the overwhelming majority of our political and business leaders of our country chooses to send their children to what is generally regarded as the 'elite' private schools. Let's see... Ted Ballieu went to Melb Grammar. Oh so did John Brumby...

Maybe the confusion is, we're talking about different sorts of private schools. I'm talking about elite private schools here (the top 10-15, and nothing beyond that). Some of you with experience in private schools, are we talking about the same thing here? Or are you talking about St Michaels or something I haven't even heard of?

Anyway do what you want with your kid's lives. None of my business. Feel free to send them whereever you want. I know where I'll be sending mine if I can afford it.
 
Btw, I am sending my son to Scotch College and my daughter to either Lauriston Girls or Fintona.

Will probably get them to sit the entrance exam for Melbourne High and Macrob. Definitely not sending them to Melton High or Doncaster High that is for sure. No offence, but if that was my intention, I wouldn't have kids.
 
Some of you people amuse me. It's typical tall poppy syndrome.

Are some of you trying to say, on the balance, that a public school like Doncaster High (no mean feat) has a higher average ENTER, higher job prospects, better social circle than Scotch or Melbourne Grammar? Not trying to belittle anyone who went there or who goes there. But are you trying to tell me me that Doncaster High is a better school on account of all things? If it is, I find it absolutely absurd that the overwhelming majority of our political and business leaders of our country chooses to send their children to what is generally regarded as the 'elite' private schools. Let's see... Ted Ballieu went to Melb Grammar. Oh so did John Brumby...

Maybe the confusion is, we're talking about different sorts of private schools. I'm talking about elite private schools here (the top 10-15, and nothing beyond that). Some of you with experience in private schools, are we talking about the same thing here? Or are you talking about St Michaels or something I haven't even heard of?

Anyway do what you want with your kid's lives. None of my business. Feel free to send them whereever you want. I know where I'll be sending mine if I can afford it.

With the exception of Ballieu, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, Government leaders are B-grade businessmen.

I'm an accountant, I went to a Government school, I have 2 properties and I am under 30, it's not unbelievalbe and I'm not tooting my own horn but why spend '00s of '000s for the same result? Having been employed in offices where I was a minority of Government school attendee, the only difference I noticed was in grammar. I'm not an author so I couldn't care less.
 
Btw, I am sending my son to Scotch College and my daughter to either Lauriston Girls or Fintona.

Will probably get them to sit the entrance exam for Melbourne High and Macrob. Definitely not sending them to Melton High or Doncaster High that is for sure. No offence, but if that was my intention, I wouldn't have kids.

please don't take this personally Shuttleman but from they way you've posted, it seems that you are adament that money will buy a better education and you seem really keen on this "brand" type of view, which is perfectly fine and up to you, however money won't get you into melbourne High or Macrob, are your kids smart enough???
obviously if your kids are still very young, its hard to tell but let me tell you that the competition from getting into melbourne hgih and macrob is minimum 10 times higher from a private school then some crappy state school such as doncaster high

not everyone is cut out for ultra competitive schools such as melbourne high and macrob, many kids do drop out in the first 12 months not being able to handle the pressure
 
please don't take this personally Shuttleman but from they way you've posted, it seems that you are adament that money will buy a better education and you seem really keen on this "brand" type of view, which is perfectly fine and up to you, however money won't get you into melbourne High or Macrob, are your kids smart enough???
obviously if your kids are still very young, its hard to tell but let me tell you that the competition from getting into melbourne hgih and macrob is minimum 10 times higher from a private school then some crappy state school such as doncaster high

not everyone is cut out for ultra competitive schools such as melbourne high and macrob, many kids do drop out in the first 12 months not being able to handle the pressure

Money can buy a better education like money can buy designer brand clothes. Also, there is nothing wrong with taking a 'brand' view. Society is based on such discriminations anyway whether anyone likes it or not, where in many cases, the political, academic and economic elite would stereotypical look upon more favourably those that are of elevated status, whether they are a Scotch old boy, knows the CEO of XXX company, owns a XXX business etc.

Sure, whilst providing a better education to your son and daughter does not guarantee them being successful or smart, but at least you are increasing the chances and at least giving them the opportunities to excel. It would be a futile argument if we are trying to talk about 'buying' success because ultimately it comes down to the individual, a bit of luck and circumstances.

Also, the perception that it is excessively harder from a private school to get into Melbourne High/Mac Rob is wrong. I am a MHS old boy (as you know) and can guarantee there is no evidence to suggest this (a combination of knowing where fellow peers in my year level and others have gone to in year 7 and 8 and the selection process). At private schools, many students do not even consider going to Melbourne High (perhaps because of the fact that it is a state school, the top students are all on private school scholarships anyway etc.) Also, despite the selection process being 3% of the population of the school, this does not necessarily mean only 3/100 people are selected. If you do extremely well, you will still get in. In my year level, there were way over 10 guys from schools like Camberwell Boys Grammar, Glen Waverley Secondary College, Balwyn High, and a stack full from Simonds College, Mount Waverley, Northcote High and I am sure there would be a significant no. of girls that got into Macrob as well from the co-ed group of schools, and I can guarantee there ain't too many schools with even 300+ students in the one year level. If anything, it could be tougher at state school because no one is on scholarship and 100% of parents would consider Melbourne High > Donny High, so naturally, you get a higher proportion of students there sitting the exam. If you take out the scholarship holders at private schools, it wouldn't surprise me if the academic levels (at year 8 at least) of private school students is similar to those of places like Donny High.

Your assumption that many kids drop out after 12 months at places like Melbourne High and Macrob is completely wrong. I don't know where you got that from. You didn't go to MHS did you? You seem to be just saying it based on rumour. Unlike the misconception, Melbourne High is like any other school. They don't kick you out simply because you get C's and D's. In fact, there are also 'dumb' people at MHS with students getting 60's and 70's for their ENTER as well. Same goes with Mac Rob (according to my sister, who as you guessed, is an old Mac Rob girl).
 
Your assumption that many kids drop out after 12 months at places like Melbourne High and Macrob is completely wrong. I don't know where you got that from. You didn't go to MHS did you? You seem to be just saying it based on rumour. Unlike the misconception, Melbourne High is like any other school. They don't kick you out simply because you get C's and D's. In fact, there are also 'dumb' people at MHS with students getting 60's and 70's for their ENTER as well. Same goes with Mac Rob (according to my sister, who as you guessed, is an old Mac Rob girl).

Wrong,

I went to Melb High,

my brother went to melb high,

my sister went to macrob,

3 of my family friends kids have are their currently, Plus I know one of the year level coordinators there so I know more about these schools then you and the majority of the population.

as for reasons for entry, you are wrong again, maybe in your time when you went, but things are constantly changing

I know kids who came from a private school, from their school, 30-40 kids attended the exam, only 3-4 kids got in due to the 3% rule, of the kids that missed out, one guy missed out at 67% for the exam,
on the other hand, in the same year level, one kid from Mooroolbark High or Lilydale High, got a score of 51% and got in, because only 2-3 kids actually went for the exam

so a kid who got 67% for the same exam missed out because he went to a school with higher competition,

Unlike the misconception, Melbourne High is like any other school. They don't kick you out simply because you get C's and D's.


I never mentioned getting kicked out? I don't know of anybody that got kicked out due to poor grades, but I knew a few that voluntarily left because they couldn't cope with the workload/pressure/environment.
Also, on more then one occassion I have been back to the school and heard first hand of the principle/teachers/co-ordinators say, the level at this school is higher then most other schools, so don't be disheartened if you are used to gettings A's at your old school to come here and get C's in the first year, (straight from the horses mouth)

In fact, there are also 'dumb' people at MHS with students getting 60's and 70's for their ENTER as well. Same goes with Mac Rob (according to my sister, who as you guessed, is an old Mac Rob girl).

what does that prove, I never said there were't any dumb people at Melbourne High School, the school doesn't shun people who don't get above the school average or state average


I also cannot stand people who get on their high horse about going to Melbourne High, or macrob or scotch college or some private school. a dumb kid in a private school is still going to get fairly dumb grades, a smart kid in a state school is still going to get fairly good grades. I in fact respect much more a friend of mine who went to a rough state school, but ended up getting the highest score in the school ever which was no where near the top of Melbourne High or Macrob
 
Wrong,

I went to Melb High,

my brother went to melb high,

my sister went to macrob,

3 of my family friends kids have are their currently, Plus I know one of the year level coordinators there so I know more about these schools then you and the majority of the population.

I think we probably have a timing issue here. I graduated from MHS not long ago. I am not going to get into an argument with another old MHS boy, especially if you graduated from MHS many years back (at least way before me). Btw, what is your point with knowing one of the year level coordinators? I know them too. What do you expect me to do? List the staff at MHS? Get into some sort of popularity contest?

as for reasons for entry, you are wrong again, maybe in your time when you went, but things are constantly changing

Again, not going to argue because of timing issue and things do change. The 3% rule is pretty loose (at least in the past 10 years, just that I don't want to tell people on a public forum which year I graduate from). As I said, over 10 students from schools from Camberwell Boys Grammar, Balwyn High etc...in my year level.

I know kids who came from a private school, from their school, 30-40 kids attended the exam, only 3-4 kids got in due to the 3% rule, of the kids that missed out, one guy missed out at 67% for the exam,
on the other hand, in the same year level, one kid from Mooroolbark High or Lilydale High, got a score of 51% and got in, because only 2-3 kids actually went for the exam

I didn't check my % nor know of anyone's % because I didn't bother asking such things. Not going to argue about something I don't know.

so a kid who got 67% for the same exam missed out because he went to a school with higher competition,

Could be possibly true, but does not disapprove what I said about having 'more than' the 3% from the one school, unless of course, the 10 or so guys lied to me about them being from Balwyn High.


I never mentioned getting kicked out? I don't know of anybody that got kicked out due to poor grades, but I knew a few that voluntarily left because they couldn't cope with the workload/pressure/environment.
Also, on more then one occassion I have been back to the school and heard first hand of the principle/teachers/co-ordinators say, the level at this school is higher then most other schools, so don't be disheartened if you are used to gettings A's at your old school to come here and get C's in the first year, (straight from the horses mouth)

That is true, but pretty obvious in hindsight. Not hard to come to the realisation that the academic levels at MHS > most other places. Also, I know of only 2 people that left at the end of year 9 (dunno the reasons). My point was that you seemed to make it sound like 'a lot' succumb to the pressure and thus leave, which is why I said you were wrong. Maybe I just misinterpreted.

what does that prove, I never said there were't any dumb people at Melbourne High School, the school doesn't shun people who don't get above the school average or state average


I also cannot stand people who get on their high horse about going to Melbourne High, or macrob or scotch college or some private school. a dumb kid in a private school is still going to get fairly dumb grades, a smart kid in a state school is still going to get fairly good grades. I in fact respect much more a friend of mine who went to a rough state school, but ended up getting the highest score in the school ever which was no where near the top of Melbourne High or Macrob

It doesn't matter. As I mentioned already, society views privileged people more highly. In the majority of cases, prestigious deals, job positions etc...are given to privileged people whether it is based on who their parents are, which high school, university they went to, the amount of dollars in their bank account, they people they know, their status in society, whether they are celebrities or not etc... You can go and 'respect' more of some guy who went to a rough state school and ended up doing the best there, but in general, that guy would probably lose out to some other random guy who was a Scotch old boy, with affluent parents who are able to get their son into Freehills with a simple phone call or have the power to influence politics.
 
Anyone else finding this squabble between 'old boys' anachronistic and trivial yet hillarious?

Thank goodness that property just keeps appreciating and producing rental returns, not caring what school their owners went to.

And the last time I looked, this seemed to work in both Boronia and Doncaster East!
 
Anyone else finding this squabble between 'old boys' anachronistic and trivial yet hillarious?

Thank goodness that property just keeps appreciating and producing rental returns, not caring what school their owners went to.

And the last time I looked, this seemed to work in both Boronia and Doncaster East!

yeah, it is trivial and hilarious I must admit as well.

What I cannot stand is people who need to prove to the rest of the world that they think they are better because they are going to send their two kids to private schools and that all public/state schools are worse then private schools, and they are a member of an elite group which I find alot with former melbourne high and macrob people

my sister is like that I hate it when i get classed in as the same group of people as her, just becuase of the school I went to
 
well, I acknowledge to myself the effort I made to get into the school, it wasnt easy

however, I never tell anyone what school I went to unless I get asked it, i always bring up my other friends who have done nothing since graduating, and my other freinds who went to public schools but have done so much better as a point of comparison.

just how I operate
 
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