Builder forcing to have a ducted aircon based on DA and Noise report.

Hi All.

I got the DA approval from Baulkham Council. Since this Block is backing on to Main road . I was asked to submit a Road noise report which recommendation as below.


From the DA consent letter:

6. Acoustic Requirements
The recommendations of the Acoustic Assessment and Report prepared by Noise and Sound Services, referenced as nss22067 - Final,
dated April 2014 and submitted as part of the Development Application are to be implemented as part of this approval. In particular: The provisions of Table 2 of Section 6 - Recommendations.

From the Noise report.

From the Road and noise report . Referring to Section 6

6. RECOMMENDATIONS
This section provides the minimum construction requirements to meet the internal noise goals.
6.1 External Wall Construction
The external walls must have a minimum Rw of approximately 40 dB, which is
standard for brick veneer consisting of 110 mm thick exterior face brick, with 90 mm deep timber stud or 92mm metal stud and 13 mm thick plasterboard internal
wall constructions and R1.5 thermal insulation in the wall cavity.
6.2 Roof / Ceiling Construction
The roof/ceiling must have a minimum Rw of 38 dB, which is standard for a
concrete tiled roof with sarking and a 10 mm thick plasterboard ceiling fixed to
the ceiling joists and R3.5 thermal insulation in the roof cavity. The plasterboard
walls and ceiling should be well sealed. The joint between the wall and ceiling
can be sealed, for example, with a resilient layer such as mastic and covered with
a plasterboard cornice or the joint can be sealed with tape and cornice cement.
6.3 Minimum Glazing Thickness and Rw Ratings
To meet the internal design goals, as given in Section 3.3 above, the glazing in
the rooms of the dwelling will require the glass thicknesses specified in Table 2
below to give the recommended Rw ratings.
Report nss22067 ? Final Page 7
*********************************************
TABLE 2 - MINIMUM GLAZING THICKNESS AND RW RATINGS ?

Room Size recommendation Glazing ..> Basically they are recommended a thicker Glass on the window.

bedroom at 6.38 Laminated glass ..and so for other windows.

Notes:-
? All other glazing to be a minimum of 4 mm thick float glass for habitable
rooms with a minimum Rw or STC rating of 22 dB;
? Rw = Weighted Sound Reduction Index, covers a frequency range from
100 Hz to 3.15 kHz;
? STC = Sound Transmission Class, covers a frequency range from 120 Hz
to 4 kHz;
? Glazing systems recommended are minimum requirements for acoustic
purposes. In some cases thicker glass may be required for safety or other
reasons.
6.4 Ventilation
Specific ventilation requirements are outside of our scope of expertise; however
an acoustically insulated building must be kept virtually air tight to exclude
external noise.
Therefore mechanical ventilation or air-conditioning is needed to provide fresh air to control odours. Requirements for ventilation are given in the Report nss22067 ? Final Page 8
Building Code of Australia (BCA) part 3.8.5. Indoor air quality is given in
Australian Standard AS 1668.2 -2002, ?The use of ventilation and airconditioning in buildings - Ventilation design for indoor air contaminant
control?.
Night time noise levels of any outdoor air-conditioning units must meet the
requirements of the Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control)
Regulation 2008.
7. SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
Noise and vibration from road traffic movements using Windsor Road, Beaumont Hills has been measured in the vicinity of lot xx, street, Hills, NSW 2155. The measurements have been used to predict internal noise
levels for the proposed dwelling. No exceedences of the internal noise or
vibration levels are predicted. This is providing that the recommendation details shown in Section 6 above as fully complied with. Mechanical ventilation or air conditioning is recommended.


Now the question is . From the DA consent i understand the i need to have a thicker glass as per the Table 2 of section 6 . Which I'm doing it along with 13mm

But the recommendation was to have a ventilation per the Noise though its outside the scope of this report.

From the builder side it been said i need to have ducted before the completion and have to be in there before practical completion. I like to do this later via third party if its a compulsion from council.

Anybody heard of this council forcing to have a ducted aircon :eek:
I really don't want to spend money on this Aircon now :eek:
 
Sorry for the typo in the post. Basically i want to know if Council based on noise report recommendation, can force you to have a Ducted aircon ?.
Have anyone heard of this ?.
I'm doing the basic stuff such as thicker plasterboard & Thicker Glazing window.
 
I may be misreading, but where does it say that it has to be ducted? Any reason it can't be split systems?
 
Ventilation
Specific ventilation requirements are outside of our scope of expertise; however
an acoustically insulated building must be kept virtually air tight to exclude
external noise. Therefore mechanical ventilation or air-conditioning is needed to
provide fresh air to control odours. Requirements for ventilation are given in the
Report nss22067 ? Final Page 8
Building Code of Australia (BCA) part 3.8.5. Indoor air quality is given in
Australian Standard AS 1668.2 -2002, ?The use of ventilation and airconditioning
in buildings - Ventilation design for indoor air contaminant
control?.
Night time noise levels of any outdoor air-conditioning units must meet the
requirements of the Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control)
Regulation 2008.


Not sure what that Environment operations regulation mean :confused:

I requested a Split to be put in later. But they are saying Split to be put in every bed room ( total 4 :eek:) and Living Area. So the Noise consulant recommended a ducted , so is forcing builder :mad:
 
Ventilation
Specific ventilation requirements are outside of our scope of expertise; however
an acoustically insulated building must be kept virtually air tight to exclude
external noise. Therefore mechanical ventilation or air-conditioning is needed to
provide fresh air to control odours. Requirements for ventilation are given in the
Report nss22067 ? Final Page 8
Building Code of Australia (BCA) part 3.8.5. Indoor air quality is given in
Australian Standard AS 1668.2 -2002, ?The use of ventilation and airconditioning
in buildings - Ventilation design for indoor air contaminant
control?.
Night time noise levels of any outdoor air-conditioning units must meet the
requirements of the Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control)
Regulation 2008.


Not sure what that Environment operations regulation mean :confused:

I requested a Split to be put in later. But they are saying Split to be put in every bed room ( total 4 :eek:) and Living Area. So the Noise consulant recommended a ducted , so is forcing builder :mad:
I would go for splits, because I don't know it's any more expensive, and it's much more flexible to operate. Yes, they have to go in every bedroom if they don't have opening windows, or if the windows open onto a noisy road. That's standard under the Australian Building Code. i.e. Occupiers of the building are entitled to both fresh air *and* quiet whilst sleeping. So if they have to close the windows to get the noise down to an acceptable level, then yes, you have to air-condition that room.

The reference to the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2008 is just a reminder that you can't have noisy air-conditioners that will disturb the neighbours: s 52 of the EO(NC)R 2008. I doubt, given it's such a noisy road, that your air-con is likely to be the noise issue in the neighbourhood, so I suspect any modern air-con would be acceptable.
 
Thanks Perp, Splits are much more cheaper( 1500-2000/per system) install and run than ducted ( 8000-1000 for 15KW ). But the bank doesn't value as addition to home value for split . But surprisingly they take ducted to be value Add .:confused:

Considering the Occupation certificate , Does the principal certifying authority which in my case is a private certifier, police this installation of A/c?. Or the certifier is not concern about this at all and only worry about the house build only ?.

When does Road noise report is policed by PCA ?.
 
Thanks Perp, Splits are much more cheaper( 1500-2000/per system) install and run than ducted ( 8000-1000 for 15KW ). But the bank doesn't value as addition to home value for split . But surprisingly they take ducted to be value Add .:confused:
Why does this matter? Do you need to borrow against the increased value to fund the installation?
Considering the Occupation certificate , Does the principal certifying authority which in my case is a private certifier, police this installation of A/c?.
Yes, it is the certifier's job to state that the building meets Code.
When does Road noise report is policed by PCA ?.
Sorry, I have no idea what you're asking here.
 
Apologies,Let me ask the question again.

From the DA consent letter:

6. Acoustic Requirements
The recommendations of the Acoustic Assessment and Report prepared by Noise and Sound Services, referenced as nssxxx19 - xxx,
dated April 2014 and submitted as part of the Development Application are to be implemented as part of this approval. In particular: The provisions of Table 2 of Section 6 - Recommendations.

SO the Certifier needs to review and complete the Acoustic requirement for the house before signing off the occupancy Certificate?.
 
SO the Certifier needs to review and complete the Acoustic requirement for the house before signing off the occupancy Certificate?.
I believe so, yes.

If you were wondering if the certifier might just "not realise" that acoustic requirements have been imposed... um, they'll notice. They have to sign off that all conditions of the approval have been met.
 
Perp;1170206 If you were wondering if the certifier might just "not realise" that acoustic requirements have been imposed... um said:
I don't know how you knew it. My certifier picked the acoustic requirement. He wanted to have a ducted and opposed to Split in main bedroom and lounge. His argument is that split doesn't cool down the whole house and mine is " Not required to cool the whole house which i may not need it ".. Where does it end.:confused::confused:

Looking at the current scenario i would be only getting a interm occupation certificate. And once i fulfill the Ducted aircon then i would get a full occupation certificate.
What are my choices here.. How important is this full OC ?. How long time i have to obtain this full OC. ?. Where i'm not sure how fast i can save up for a Ducted :(
 
What are my choices here.. How important is this full OC ?. How long time i have to obtain this full OC. ? :(

The full OC is only important if you ever wish to sell, the question will be asked and the buyer may recind the contract if you are unable or unwilling to achieve the compliance certificate.

You may not need to install ducted ac, you could investigate the use of an evaporative cooler if it will comply to the standard of performance nominated.
 
Scott, What is a reasonable time frame that a certifier would allow to get a fill OC ?.Can i install this just before the resale and get the full OC , let says a time frame of 5 yrs. ?
 
Looking at the current scenario i would be only getting a interm occupation certificate. And once i fulfill the Ducted aircon then i would get a full occupation certificate.
I think you're exceedingly fortunate if he's willing to issue an interim occupation certificate. According to this - http://nsw.hendrygroup.com.au/services/occupation-certificate/interim-occupation-cert.aspx, even the interim occupancy certificate issue "must not occur unless any preconditions to the issue of the certificate that are specified in a development consent or complying development consent have been met".

I know it's a bit late for you, but I don't understand how it's gotten this far. Did you not speak with a certifier way back at design stage? :confused:
 
The full OC is only important if you ever wish to sell, the question will be asked and the buyer may recind the contract if you are unable or unwilling to achieve the compliance certificate.
.


Friend recently bought a house where the final occupancy certificate had not been obtained.
Cost the seller several thousand dollars and a few weeks of hassles to get council and certifier to issue the correct documents.
Get this right now - otherwise it WILL come back to haunt you.
Marg
 
Builder has put in Lesser Glass instead of Recommended.

Monday Morning.

I using the same thread instead of posting a new one since this issue is also related to the same noise report issue.
I'm looking for advise on what to do next for the below issue.

Quick history:
Since the house was backing to main road, Road noise report was generated. And council approved the house with conditions for noise insulation and Ducted air con.

The builder has put up a fixed contract with Varations to adhere to the noise report. And to upgrade the Window/Door Glasses in total on Approx 13 windows and two sliding doors from standard 4 mm to thicker glass ( some of them are laminated 6.38 windows in the front ) is he just charged me $115 only. Now that we have started the construction.


Image Noise report :

http://i.imgur.com/v18OiFp.png?1

Image for the Contract :

http://i.imgur.com/k1R8HuB.jpg

We see the glasses are not same as the noise report. I Can only see the front Glass has sticker of 3CLR FLOAT ( top ones) which i assume it a 3mm clear glass and the one in the bottom has 5mm (5CLR FLOAT).

Image for the Front glass:

http://i.imgur.com/Ca4ZHAZ.jpg


Here is the question.

1. Is the builder going for the min recommended version ? other than suggested by the Noise report ?.
2. Did he genuinely miss the Glass upgrade or Wrongly quoted to lesser money ?.
3. Or is that a over sight from the builder while Quoting /ordering ?.
4. Who's responsible to pick the error ?. Is that Certifier or owner ?.
5. Should i Cross check with the Trend Windows ( Window supplier ) to check the Glass thickness before raising with builder ?.
6. once fixed and the Brick started?. How hard to replace the window glasses ?.
7. Anything else that i have missed?.

We are starting the Brick work today. So i need the suggestion from you guys on how to proceed?.
I would love to give some kick back to the builder since they denied several meager variations which we have requested :mad: . They always said
once the contract has been signed , "No variations" is possible in this world .

I'm planning to write back to builder's supervisor today. And i need some guidance on this one.
 
Who's responsible to pick the error ?. Is that Certifier or owner ?
The certifier will want to verify it's correct before signing off, but I'd be willing to bet that regardless of whose screw-up it is, you'll wear the cost, so I'd be talking to the builder ASAP, and saying - whilst standing in front of the window - "this seems to say that this window should be x mm thick, but this sticker suggests it's only 3mm. How do you respond to that?"

You may or may not have recourse against the builder later if he's screwed up, but it'll cost more for everybody at that time and it might ugly. As you have a concern, which seems valid, be proactive and sort it out *today*.
 
We are starting the Brick work today. So i need the suggestion from you guys on how to proceed?.
I would love to give some kick back to the builder since they denied several meager variations which we have requested :mad: . They always said
once the contract has been signed , "No variations" is possible in this world .

I'm planning to write back to builder's supervisor today. And i need some guidance on this one.

If the brickwork is starting today then the windows will already be on site so you would want to sort this out very quickly,and with the A/C unit for 9k plus you would want to make sure all the ductwork has 50mm internal thermal lagging that alone cuts out the noise factor but a lot have just bare ductwork..imho..
 
Perp,
if the builder contract has put in a variation for $115. Then its his mistake right ?. Why should i step for this mistake ?.
So the Fixed Contract is no more fixed is it ?. if its A builder mistake then should he be responsible ?.
 
Get hold of the builder ASAP. If he has detailed the variations but not quoted the correct materials to comply there will be another variation and delay s unless they can reglaze in the existing suite. If they can't put the thicker glass into the frame then they will need to order new ones. You have signed off the variations, you have accepted the changes even if the builder put down the wrong details.

There's no contract between Trend and yourself so little point in contacting them except to confirm if they had received the correct glazing schedule.
 
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