Building a Granny Flat - Part 2 - Construction

[neK]

Just got hit up with another problem
(Well i knew it would pop up eventually, ive just been trying to avoid it).

My sewerage pipe from my property boundary leading into the street is stuffed.

To fix this its going to cost $9k+ because they'll need to dig into the footpath and road, therefore requiring permits, more waste disposal, then fixing up the road etc.

At this stage, im not looking to get it done and hope that every time it blocks ill just get a plumber out (approx $150-$200) and get it unblocked with the eel / high water pressure.

Since i've owned the property (from 2003), ive had to call out a plumber 3 times to fix it, so $200 every 2 years isnt so bad (well not as bad is $9k!).

Im just hoping that having the waste from the granny flat will help keep water flowing more constantly resulting in the less blockage. Do you think this will work, or will having more water/waste actually make it worse?

Other question i have here is that is there anyway I can make the council and RTA pay for it instead seeing its on their land and not mine.

 

[virgo]

Granny Flat

Hi Nek

Just to say "Thanks" for taking the time to post your granny flat journey...

Have learnt a lot from your musings, and so glad your efforts are coming to fruition.

Cheers

 

[tess85]

I'm with virgo - have learnt so much too!

If anyone is interested, I'm happy to open the house to somersoft forumers who want to check the place out once its done.

I'd definitely be interested if the offer still stands

Incidentally, I've been reading the SEPP2009 but can't find an answer to my question, does the block size have to be of a certain size before you can put a granny flat on it?

 

[neK]

Yep. 450sqm. If it meets that requirement you can get it approved very cheaply and in under 10 days. No going through the council's DA process at all.

That said, neighbours will get a bit upset because they arent notified (because under this development they dont need to be )

http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=eCNg9MQW0UU=&tabid=313

The thing to watch out for is the 3m setback from the rear fence. For me being on a corner block, I had a garage there already so that took care of my 3m. If i didnt, I would have put in a carport in the 3m setback space.

So if you have a not so deep block, the granny flat may end up consuming a fair chunk of the existing dwelling's backyard.

And yes the offer still stands for anyone who wants to see the finished product.

 

[Kwigib0]

Hi neK.

First off thank you for creating this thread, I have had an interest in granny flats for the purpose of dual income from an IP for a while now, and any info helps especially the complying developments as the local council here was frowning on the build of granny flats when I last inquired. I recently bought a house with an attached granny flat in another area and it is looking good for returns so far ( seeing accountant next week so ill find out if im right)
Anyway more on topic. Unfortunately you are responsible for the sewer pipes all the way from the fixtures in the house to the junction on the sydneywater sewer main which according to me is into the manhole in the street, so this cost you would have to bear im afraid. However to be honest, 9K sounds a lot to me and from experience, this is where the plumbers tend to bump up the price to make their money. My advice is that if they managed to clear it today, then I would let it go for now and spend some time getting some quotes from other plumbers. However dont engage any other plumbers until after the current plumber has had his final inspection and signed off on his contracted work. This can cause conflicts otherwise.
The fact that there will be more flowing down the pipe when the granny flat is being used, unfortunately will tend to speed up the issues so I would be planning to have the repair done in the near rather than distant future.
Hope this info has been helpful, and if you have any other questions that I may be able to help with please don't hesitate to ask..

 

[neK]

The fact that there will be more flowing down the pipe when the granny flat is being used, unfortunately will tend to speed up the issues so I would be planning to have the repair done in the near rather than distant future.

Hi Kwigib0, thanks for responding. So i guess there really is no way out of it then eh

More for my own curiousity, how come more water flowing down the pipe would speed up the blockage issue? I thought more water flowing more constantly would help keep it clear?

Also, in your opinion, is it worth changing the old pipe to a new one. The plumber has said the old one is ok, but the builder has said it would be more ideal to change it.

Also, if they were to change it, I would also put the electricity and water lines underground as opposed to through the roof of the existing dwelling.

 

[Kwigib0]

Hi Again,

Just to add, there is a common misconception that heat pump hotwater services are cheaper to run than standard electric off peak.
Even though it uses less energy ( good for environment) it actually costs around the same as a standard electric off peak storage heater to run. The instantaneous gas models are my preference as they dont store hot water, rather they heat it as required, meaning if your away for the weekend they don't cost anything (or maybe a tiny bit of standby power) as they are not being used. Also the great advantage of the instantaneous is that they don't run out...

Regards
Kwig

 

[Kwigib0]

Hi Kwigib0, thanks for responding. So i guess there really is no way out of it then eh

Also, in your opinion, is it worth changing the old pipe to a new one. The plumber has said the old one is ok, but the builder has said it would be more ideal to change it.

Unfortunately all your sewer pipes are old earthenware and it would be Ideal to change them all, however It was my understanding that the main issue was between the property boundary and the junction in the street. I would look at replacing this in the nearer future, and leaving the rest until it starts causing you problems.

Also, if they were to change it, I would also put the electricity and water lines underground as opposed to through the roof of the existing dwelling.

Im not sure why you would want to take the water through the roof of the existing dwelling? You should be able to connect to a point at the back of the house closer to the granny flat. Electricity is a different story, that is not my expertise but as I understand, you would need to get a connection from the existing meter box ( where you get separate meters installed to bill individually) to the flat, so this may need to go through the ceiling if you don't replace all the sewer lines.

More for my own curiousity, how come more water flowing down the pipe would speed up the blockage issue? I thought more water flowing more constantly would help keep it clear?

The most common cause of blocked sewers is damaged pipes, tree roots, or both. The more water you flush down the line, the more tree roots thrive and the quicker they grow back. The more paper ect you flush down the line, the more that gets caught on the tree roots/cracked pipes causing the sewer to block and overflow out the gullys outside the house.

Hope this helps.
Kwig

 

[neK]

Unfortunately all your sewer pipes are old earthenware and it would be Ideal to change them all, however It was my understanding that the main issue was between the property boundary and the junction in the street. I would look at replacing this in the nearer future, and leaving the rest until it starts causing you problems.

Yes your understanding is correct, the main issue is between the property boundary and the junction on the street.

The reason for wanting replacing the sewer pipe that is on my property (ie the non cracked pipe) is that I dont like the idea of electrical wires going through the roof of the existing house and know that I will be fixing that cracked pipe in the future (therefore might as well fix this one now).

Im not sure why you would want to take the water through the roof of the existing dwelling? You should be able to connect to a point at the back of the house closer to the granny flat.

Which is what the builder wanted to do initially. However I want to have the option of shutting down water to one without affecting the other. If i simply connect the water to the closest point of the existing house, I can shut off water to the granny flat without affecting the existing house, however if i shut down water to the existing house the granny flat is affected.

Also the existing house is around 60-70 years old, so if there are issues with the pipe, putting a new connection in directly to the meter will bypass any of these issues.

Electricity is a different story, that is not my expertise but as I understand, you would need to get a connection from the existing meter box ( where you get separate meters installed to bill individually) to the flat, so this may need to go through the ceiling if you don't replace all the sewer lines.

This is exactly what is happening and why im looking to replace the sewer line (that doesnt exactly need replacing just yet).

Intially i wanted them to draw a new line from the street (as the granny flat has its own street frontage), but Energy Australia wont allow this

The most common cause of blocked sewers is damaged pipes, tree roots, or both. The more water you flush down the line, the more tree roots thrive and the quicker they grow back. The more paper ect you flush down the line, the more that gets caught on the tree roots/cracked pipes causing the sewer to block and overflow out the gullys outside the house.

Ahh that makes sense. Hmm i guess ill see how long I can hold out fixing the main problem for.

Seeing that I'll have to fix that main problem in the near future, i might as well upgrade that sewer line on my property now then so that there is a clean run later on.

Thanks for all your help Kwig.

 

[sydsider]

I would be planning to have the repair done in the near rather than distant future.

I agree.

One of my IP was built on a subdivided block that shares the same sewage pipe as the old house and a yr after the house was built there was a blockage and sewage was coming out of the sink. And I was told the same thing. Two houses is definitely worse than one.

 

[neK]

I agree.

One of my IP was built on a subdivided block that shares the same sewage pipe as the old house and a yr after the house was built there was a blockage and sewage was coming out of the sink. And I was told the same thing. Two houses is definitely worse than one.

Please tell me there wasnt human poo coming out of the kitchen sink.

 

[Kwigib0]

Which is what the builder wanted to do initially. However I want to have the option of shutting down water to one without affecting the other. If i simply connect the water to the closest point of the existing house, I can shut off water to the granny flat without affecting the existing house, however if i shut down water to the existing house the granny flat is affected.

Also the existing house is around 60-70 years old, so if there are issues with the pipe, putting a new connection in directly to the meter will bypass any of these issues.

I see what your saying here.... If you wish to do this with the water, then you will have to tee off from the outlet side of the existing water meter and then install a separate shut off valve on the new pipe to the granny flat and another on the pipe to the old house service and use these new valves to turn off the water to the flat or house. The existing tap on the inlet side of the meter will only be used to shut down for repair/replacement of the existing water meter. From my experience Sydney water will not issue a second meter for property if not subdivided... You can only install a private meter on the flat and then use it to bill the tenants separately. Sydney water will only read the existing meter..

Kwig.

 

[Ed Barton]

Can you rent out a Secondary Dwelling (granny flat) under a house?

No. Acceptable Solution A8 in the House Code states that a House must be used by a single household group. Renting out a Secondary Dwelling or "granny flat" would be contrary to the Acceptable Solution as the house is used by one group and the Secondary Dwelling by an autonomous group.

Non-compliance with the acceptable solutions triggers a notifiable code application.

What do “domestic residential purposes” and “household group” in P8/A8 of the House Code mean?

These are the key phrases that define a building as a House and are related to the phrase “domestic group” in City Plan’s definition of a House. These phrases indicate that the group occupying the house arrange their affairs in a domestic way. For example, rent or mortgage, bills or other household expenses are collectively shared by co-tenants in equal or relative proportions with no one party profiting from another. In a rental situation, either one or all the occupant’s names may be on the lease. A sub-tenancy agreement between a lessee and another party not shown on the lease is usually considered a domestic arrangement. You may be asked to provide this evidence if compliance with the Code is in doubt.

A non-domestic arrangement is one where an owner or agent has individual contracts with each tenant, giving them a right to occupy separate parts of the building and profits from the taking of rent. These are considered as individual discrete households and not one household group acting collectively. Depending on length and type of stay, this is likely to be considered as a Multi-unit Dwelling or Short Term Accommodation for the purposes of City Plan.

Note that a household can be spread between the main house and a secondary dwelling as long as all parties form a single domestic group.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_253

is there an exemption or a way around this for Brisbane granny flat LLs?

 

[neK]

Sorry, don't know the answer to that. I guess the rules for NSW must be different.

 

[Ed Barton]

Sorry, don't know the answer to that. I guess the rules for NSW must be different.

thanks. i thought the brisbane city council rules were a bit strange considering i know lots of people who rent out granny flats. maybe they just do it on the sly.

do any brisbane investors have any more information?

 

[sydsider]

Please tell me there wasnt human poo coming out of the kitchen sink.

I don't think anybody inspected that closely. At least I didn't think they did.

It was quite a bit of pain so I strongly recommend you to get it right from the onset to minimise future problems. Not to mention unhappy tenants.

 

[PropertInvestor]

Thanks for sharing your story. Can we see latest pics, Is this completed ? How was your overall experience with Granny flats australia.

Before buying house with a view to build granny flat at the back. What are the things look for ?

 

[skater]

Yes, please some photo's would be great.

 

[neK]

Thanks for sharing your story. Can we see latest pics, Is this completed ? How was your overall experience with Granny flats australia.

Before buying house with a view to build granny flat at the back. What are the things look for ?

Its not quite completed yet. Things that have been recently done:
Tiling, bathtub (its in the box and tiled), kitchen, doors.

Items still to be completed

1. Painting
2. vanity unit
3. toilet
4. shower head
5. carpet in the bedrooms
6. A/C unit
7. Gas installation (thanks to AGL for screwing me around!)

My overall view on Granny Flats Australia is that they have been absolutely FANTASTIC!

Cid is extremely patient, especially with a guy like me who asks heaps of questions and sits there and ponders on every little thing. (My wife actually pointed how patient Cid was and if she in his shoes she would have already told me to pss off with the amount of questions I was asking. LOL).

As for the type of block to look out for, standard stuff really. Level or high side block to allow the water to flow into the existing sewer connection and a largish block.

Yes, please some photo's would be great.

I went there on Friday night to have a look (using my phone as a torch), but it was too dark to take photos.

I went their on Saturday hoping to take some photos, but was locked out because they had put the door on. LOL

I only got to look at the stuff through the windows. I'll post up some pictures as soon as I can.

 

[Gulay]

Hello everyone. I have been reading up on the posts and would really appreciate any help that comes my way. My home is 550sqm with a fairly new home my parents built (owner builder) with a double fibro garage that we did not renovate at the time (2001). The distance from the wall of main house to the beginning of garage is about 10.4m. Seeing as though I cannot build another level ontop of the garage like a studio ( which I really wanted) had to go down the granny flat route. I want to keep a single garage even though I want to build a granny flat.

My question is whether I would be allowed to convert my double to a single garage, detached from granny flat and build right next to it, like side by side, maybe 1m apart or so. I keep phoning my council but just get the same answer....lookup the web site. Bigger than Ben Hur!

Also how far away from the fence can I build my granny flat? Is it 900mm or 5 m? Confused on this one.

Would really appreciate any ideas with many thanks.