Buyers Agents

Discussion in 'WebBoard Property Investor Forum Archive' started by The_Husband, 9th Sep, 2002.

  1. Mike

    Mike Member

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    I want to be a Buyer Agent in NSW or other...

    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1
    From: Mike .


    Hi Ross,

    Thanks for your thoughts so far re licensing and Scouts/Finders.

    If you don't mind I'd like to reply to some comments you made in Post 18.

    "But yes... a finder could be classed as a non-agent... but I'd bet the "ranch" that person will NOT behave like a non-agent."

    What is a non-agent? How should a non-agent behave? How do you think a Finder would behave? Are you saying a non-agent is a Marketer? A simple due diligence question all buyers should ask anyone flogging real estate is, "Are you a fully-licensed Real Estate Agent? Can I see your license, please?" Then verify this with the relevant State authority. If they are not fully-licensed it is Caveat Emptor and the buyer should take full responsibility of the outcome of their decisions from that point on.

    "True. But I'm 100% sure that at some time... the non-agent will comment on value... or make a suggestion regarding the deal. Thereby creating an agency relationship (...legally speaking)."

    There is an old legal saying, "If it isn't down on paper, it didn't happen."

    "I think you've suggested and/or advised about market value. Under market value... attention of buyer... profitable deal? Therefore... you're acting for somebody... (the buyer's benefit?)"

    The Finder could simply have the Looker sign a disclaimer to the effect that the Looker understands and agrees that the Finder is NOT working for the benefit of the Looker.

    The Finder is not paid a retainer unlike a Buyers agent who gets a fee whether the client buys or not. A Finder without an agency agreement cannot do this.

    "What happens and what is legal all depends on what the judge says when... the Sh!t hits the fan."

    The matter would be thrown out of court because there is no evidence of an agency relationship. "If it aint on paper...etc." Besides Caveat Emptor has been satisfied with the Finder's disclaimer.

    "But at the end of the day... I believe in 100% representation! Represent the seller, the buyer or yourself. But make sure everyone knows who you really represent! (* I think one of my friends calls it transparency.)"

    That's what I've been saying re the Finder's disclaimer. Why would a Finder get licensed? Would you have them take out professional indemnity insurance, as well? Then they WOULD be vulnerable to being sued. It's a nonsense!

    "A buyer agent doesn't list property for sale therefore... it's NOT a silent listing. We just know about certain information and we used that to find and BUY. (We represent the buyer and we therefore... chase expired lisitngs... follow unkept homes... we run with a lead... we hear a rumour and we chase it.. some seller agents feed us info, etc." [Your quote from Buyer's Agents - Silent listings]

    So you run with leads and chase rumours. That's all a Finder provides. Would you ever consider sueing someone for providing a lead or a rumour? Methinks the courts would throw it out.

    In conclusion: I think it is bureaucratic overkill to expect a Finder to get licensed and insured. The industry that legislated that are the same one's to benefit from the fees and premiums - it's a bl*y rort!
    <p>
    As for the Looker: I think anyone making a purchasing decision and risking tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars solely on the word of anyone licensed or un-licensed should accept responsibility for the outcome if it goes pear-shaped. To shift blame without having done one's own due diligence is also a nonsense.
    <p>
    Regards, Mike (trying to unlock horns :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  2. asy

    asy Member

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    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1.1
    From: Asy .


    Mike,

    What do I keep telling you?????

    Stop trying to bring logic into this.

    We are talking about LEGALITIES... no logic required. And, even if the court threw it out, the Business Licensing mob would probably jump on it, not to mention ASIC...
    (please don't mention them!!)

    well, it is a very interesting topic, and one that I think everyone has an opinion on...

    asy

    "Don't forget what happened to the guy who suddenly got everything he ever wanted...
    He lived happily ever after.
    (Willy Wonka).
     
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  3. Mike

    Mike Member

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    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Hi Asy,

    Can't help myself, I guess. However, it is an issue concering all Property forums that allow deals to be advertised as this forum does. Should we allow deals to be posted by Flippers or Marketers who aren't fully licensed but will benefit from a Finders fee? Didn't I read somewhere in this thread that it is illegal? ;-)

    As for the Caveat Emptor section of this forum, should we make it a condition of posting deals to disclose whether they are fully-licensed, partly licensed but indemnified by a full-license holder or not licensed at all? In addition, to disclose the size of any fees they will acquire?
    <p>
    Regards, Mike
     
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  4. asy

    asy Member

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    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1.1.1.1
    From: Asy .


    Wow Mike,

    That's an interesting spin on the issue.

    I don't think it is a matter of allowing these practices, Jan and Ian would have to address that issue, although I don't think it would be a problem, as they are not benefiting from the transaction.

    Should we allow deals to be posted by Flippers or Marketers who aren't fully licensed but will benefit from a Finders fee?
    Probably not, but then who are we to police people, we can assist to educate, point out pitfalls and leave it up to the individuals to do their own due diligence (including finding out whether what you are doing is legal).

    Should we make it a condition of posting deals to disclose whether they are licensed, and at what level, again this is a DD sorta thing. If they are in QLD any fees must be disclosed to all parties anyway.

    I do think it is a good idea for people to know who they are dealing with from the outset. The plethora of "I found an apartment, but I can't buy it, do you want it" posts which seem to be appearing, when in fact the person is a marketeer and has 20 such apartments for sale is ridiculous.

    Many of these marketeering companies flaunt the law so obviously it is not funny. I have spoken to people working for these companies out of interest, and asked them whether they have bought an apartment from the developer, only to discover that they have, when asked how they got around section 54 of the estate agents act, they were unable to answer. They don't know the act, they don't know the law, and they are expected to be in a position of assisting the public. On further investigation, I discovered that this particular marketeering company WAS NOT LICENSED! I had a quiet conversation with their manager, and understand that they now are, but didn't realise that they needed to be.

    I guess it all comes down to Due diligence. Find out who you are dealing with and if you are not comfortable, don't do business with them. If they can't guarantee you that they are acting within the law don't do business with them.

    anyway, I look forward to your next post!

    asy


    (PS: section 54 is where an agent cannot purchase their own listings, there are ways around this, but don't relate to this thread)


    "Don't forget what happened to the guy who suddenly got everything he ever wanted...
    He lived happily ever after.
    (Willy Wonka).
     
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  5. Mike

    Mike Member

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    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Hi Asy,

    Thanks for that fantastic insight. I wonder how many people on this forum do that kind of due diligence? Now that you have set the example I hope everyone on this forum will follow it. Well done.

    Since Les is the Moderator of Caveat Emptor I wonder what his thoughts are regarding mandatory disclosure of licensing and fees for all deals posted to CE?

    Regards, Mike
     
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  6. Les

    Les Member

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    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Les .



    G'day Mike,

    An interesting point. I will check with the hosts of this site and be guided by their recommendations,

    Regards,

    Les


    - "Eschew Obfuscation" - ;^)
     
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  7. asy

    asy Member

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    Reply: 1.2.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Asy .


    Les, while you are at it, may we please look into the same information provision by those offering finance and/or planning assistance?

    As in, where the finance is coming from and how it is being provided.

    Just a thought, not sure it would be do-able

    asy :eek:)


    "Don't forget what happened to the guy who suddenly got everything he ever wanted...
    He lived happily ever after.
    (Willy Wonka).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017