Buyers Agents

[sash]

HiEquity....you are entitled to your opinion.....that is beauty of the forum.

There a quite a few on the forum who have differing views. I am not saying any party is right.....

As for ten of millions....talk is cheap...agree lots heroes with stories...on this site. Some have real wealth...some not...and some exaggerated wealth...

As for me...I am mere pauper....with a big hat no cattle...so take no notice of what I say. Sim will verify that.

Wow - this thread is heavy reading!

I'd just like to make a few points, as a completely disinterested property investor:
- I've been here for awhile now (too long!) and I have found the moderation to be first class. Excellent judgement is displayed by the mods regarding who is here to contribute and who is here to just advertise or take down everyone else with them. If I report a post, as I have felt I had to do on the odd occasion, it gets acted on very quickly. The mods only get kudos from me.
- I fear Jake is falling into a trap here that the other BAs can spot a mile away. A ********* contest with the investing heroes of the forum for whom no matter what deal is put up, they could always have done better themselves. Why they need external validation of this fact is beyond me as their level of self belief is obviously unassailable. And this is despite the fact they clearly believe they are better investors than others on this forum whose net worth is clearly tens of millions of dollars ahead of their own. We have had this problem before and it seems nothing has been learnt. I can only advise the BAs not to get themselves caught up in this game, although I can see that those who have been around here for awhile clearly don't need the advice.

Lets just get back to discussing investing shall we? This whole "mine's bigger than your's" attitude does not encourage other people to share their real world numbers, only to have them ridiculed, which is exactly the most valuable activity this forum has to offer.

 

[coastal]

Cool. Enjoy the read...


Hey, here's a quick example from a deal just finalised about 30 minutes ago.

Can't give the address today because we haven't formally exchanged but I'll edit this post with a link and address tomorrow.

Regional property listed for $240,000 - $250,000
The vendor naturally wanted $250,000
Comparable sales suggested $246,000
Residex valuation suggested: $248,000


Purchased today for $219,000.
Saving of up to 12% or $31,000 from the vendors expectations.
Savings of up to $27,000 against our DD.

At this low budget, my client and I are very satisfied with the result.

Additionally the property will rent out for $240-260/week and will be CF+ from the get go.

Hi Jake
I would be interested to know how you approached this deal..negotiations

 

[Scott No Mates]

Hi Jake
I would be interested to know how you approached this deal..negotiations

That is why he works as a BA - you don't give away the lollyshop.

 

[travelbug]

Cool. Enjoy the read...


Hey, here's a quick example from a deal just finalised about 30 minutes ago.

Can't give the address today because we haven't formally exchanged but I'll edit this post with a link and address tomorrow.

Regional property listed for $240,000 - $250,000
The vendor naturally wanted $250,000
Comparable sales suggested $246,000
Residex valuation suggested: $248,000


Purchased today for $219,000.
Saving of up to 12% or $31,000 from the vendors expectations.
Savings of up to $27,000 against our DD.

At this low budget, my client and I are very satisfied with the result.

Additionally the property will rent out for $240-260/week and will be CF+ from the get go.

Hi,
What is the market value?

curious about the projected capital growth as its barely CF+ unless you don't count the deposit or purchase costs.

 

[Blacky]

I have read this post with interest.
firstly, because this seems to be an emotive issue I will firstly state I am not a BA, nor have any interest with any agent - BA or otherwise. Im just a property investor.

There appears to be a belief that the sole purpose of a BA is to "beat the market price" which I think is false.
I used a BA previously for one of my purchases. Why? becuase I was looking for a specific type of property, and didnt have the time nor inclination to spend researching for hundreds if not thousands of hours for this property. I was happy to pay someone else to do it for me. Time is money after all, and I felt my time was worth more than what I was paying them to do the research for me.

Also people seem to think that you sign a BA up - who then runs out and buys you a property - without your input. My BA showed me countless numbers of properties. Which I carried out my own DD on, and made an informed decision based on my own knowledge and research. Certainly, the BA provided back ups and evidence as to why they had shown me a particular property, but at the end of the day the decision to buy or not to buy was mine and mine alone. If the purchase didnt turn out well, why would that be the BA's fault? I could have no one to blame but myself.

If you have the time, knowledge, information, resources etc to purchase your own property without the use of a BA - then fully agree. Dont use one. However, I dont have the time - nor inclination to source my own properties. Spending $10k for someone else to do 3 months work is well worth my while.

I ended up purchasing a property (after about 7 months of my BA searching for me) for $712k - down from an asking price of over $750k (I cant remember the exact numbers, Im sorry). Could I have achieved the same result? maybe - who knows. Eitherway, they knocked more off the purchase price than their fee, so hey - who am I to argue?

I also sold a property to a BA. it was a good deal for both parties, as I didnt have to list the property for sale - so it sold quickly and I didnt have to pay a selling agent. The buyer was happy as it sold for less than market value - as I could reduce the sale price because I netted nearly the whole selling price.

Im not Pro nor Anti using a BA. Use one or don't. Its your choice. I used one and was happy. I have also purchased without the use of one, and achieved a good result. There are many reasons why they are used, and just as many not to use one. They have a place.

Unfortunatly I see this thread have degraded into a slinging match.
A BA's job is not to just purchase under valued property - as some seem to think. If you can do it yourself - go for it.

Blacky

 

[redwing]

Hey Sim when is the next meeting?

Has the next meeting been

 

[theros]

Hi guys I found this site whilst doing a google search on buyers agents. I am thinking of engaging a buyers agent and was wondering how a buyers agent can help me buy below market value in this crazy market ?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Vendor]

I am glad this thread is at last getting back to the subject.

I operate an online service teaching how to import and am often asked for proof of results, but it is a problem when commercial in confidence is a factor.

I will not provide specific information to my clients' potential competitors, but
genuine enquirers are always satisfied with the abundant testimonials I provide.

I see that one poster has used a BA for selling, and because of certain characteristics of my property I think that would be a good option for me.

Any suggestions?

 

[DavidTomlins]

@Vendor makes a good point, contractually most buyer's agents will have some form of confidentiality clause in place that limits their ability to share success stories on a forum. However that being said the majority will have an agreement with certain clients that are happy to be used as testimonials (nor is there harm in asking an agent for contacts to their prior five deals).

The point commonly missed is that if you are the client of a buyer?s agent you don?t have to accept their boilerplate contract. Being specific on your precise deliverables is something that should be discussed early on in negotiations, accepting that some items will be fluid. These deliverables should be linked to the buyer?s agent success fee, the exact percentage retainer/success will obviously be a negotiation.

At the end of the day it is horses for courses and not every investor will be suited to using the services of an agent.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

[deleted text]
Personally I do think buyers agents are worthwhile, especially for remote purchases. If you can't travel and put in the time to do the research, it stands to reason to get a local expert to do this for you. I've got clients that have used all of the regular BA contributors to this forum with great results. I've also used some of them for my own acquisitions. I probably wouldn't use a BA to source property in my own backyard, but your own backyard may not be the best place to be buying at a particular point in time.

ditto ! I'd only use a buyers agent if the property was interstate.

 

[MTR]

Would like to also add that when a market is red hot, for example certain pockets in Syd and Perth, BA can also struggle securing properties, and they also have many clients that want what you want. How does this work??

I actually employed a BA to purchase a development site in Perth but they were having problems as they were playing in a market where properties were snapped up prior to being listed and multiple offers. I actually ended up competing against my own BA as he was buying this property for his client in Melb the RE agent divulged all. I actually ended up securing the property.


MTR

 

[JamesGG]

and they also have many clients that want what you want. How does this work??

Most of us don't take on more than one client who is looking for the same thing, so there is no pecking order or conflict of interest in deciding which client is presented with each potential property. Keeps things simple and transparent that way.

 

[MTR]

Fair enough, but still don't understand how this would work, especially if you turn down clients??

BA in Perth take on anyone's business, I expect first in gets first option, but in a booming market this is just not going to cut it.

 

[HD_ACE]

Fair enough, but still don't understand how this would work, especially if you turn down clients??

BA in Perth take on anyone's business, I expect first in gets first option, but in a booming market this is just not going to cut it.

Because a ba will only take on a certain amount of clients at the same time. Say 5 or whatever. By the time everyone has a different goal ie development, buy and hold, different price brackets and different areas there wont really be anyone looking for the same thing.

Or else i would expect them to decline to help or full disclosure on a first in first choice bases.

Cheers

 

[MTR]

Because a ba will only take on a certain amount of clients at the same time. Say 5 or whatever. By the time everyone has a different goal ie development, buy and hold, different price brackets and different areas there wont really be anyone looking for the same thing.

Or else i would expect them to decline to help or full disclosure on a first in first choice bases.

Cheers

I don't believe this is the case and certainly not from my experience. It would be nice to think that this is how it works, but seriously it would naive IMO. BA is operating a business and he/she is there to make money, turning away clients is a good way to go backwards or broke.

Also, another thing they don't tell you is if a great deal comes along they may actually purchase it themselves, ok, no crime in this but its a big turn off.

My BA purchased a development block because he practically stole it, his partner told me... oops that was silly, "foot and mouth disease". I thought he trying to secure one in this area for me, I did pay an upfront fee, oh well maybe the next one.

I am not against BA per se but I think everyone should go in with their eyes wide opened. One needs to make sure the information provided is substantiated with evidence. Just because you pay a massive fee, does not mean they are always going to get it right. I also used a BA for a Melb property, sacked her, because she had absolutely no clue on values of a particular area, she actually lost a deal that I wanted. She was a dud.

I also know a BA who put a development deal together in Perth for someone, she in turn had an experienced developer review the numbers, and if she went ahead with the deal should would most certainly had lost money.

MTR

 

[sash]

MTR....ditto...I agree with what you are saying.

In my opinion as stated before I would be very careful what is put forward by some BAs.

I would also believe only you can act in your interest. As for using BAs in interstate markets it could be false economy as some of them have preconceived notions about areas which have potential.

I don't believe this is the case and certainly not from my experience. It would be nice to think that this is how it works, but seriously it would naive IMO. BA is operating a business and he/she is there to make money, turning away clients is a good way to go backwards or broke.

Also, another thing they don't tell you is if a great deal comes along they may actually purchase it themselves, ok, no crime in this but its a big turn off.

My BA purchased a development block because he practically stole it, his partner told me... oops that was silly, "foot and mouth disease". I thought he trying to secure one in this area for me, I did pay an upfront fee, oh well maybe the next one.

I am not against BA per se but I think everyone should go in with their eyes wide opened. One needs to make sure the information provided is substantiated with evidence. Just because you pay a massive fee, does not mean they are always going to get it right. I also used a BA for a Melb property, sacked her, because she had absolutely no clue on values of a particular area, she actually lost a deal that I wanted. She was a dud.

I also know a BA who put a development deal together in Perth for someone, she in turn had an experienced developer review the numbers, and if she went ahead with the deal should would most certainly had lost money.

MTR

 

[JenJen]

Oh dear, MTR. Sounds like you have had some duds :-(.

Please be assured that not all BAs are the same! Some actually do care more about service than profit. That's probably a hangover from being in the public service for me ;-).

Cheers

Jen

 

[Scott No Mates]

I also know a BA who put a development deal together in Perth for someone, she in turn had an experienced developer review the numbers, and if she went ahead with the deal should would most certainly had lost money.

MTR

Did their client end up buying this site or did the BA recommend against it based on the information she ascertained? The BA is to act in the interests of the client ie if they identify a site in the are that the client is looking for they must present it to their client (or document why they didn't) otherwise how could they be acting in the interest of the client?

 

[MTR]

Did their client end up buying this site or did the BA recommend against it based on the information she ascertained? The BA is to act in the interests of the client ie if they identify a site in the are that the client is looking for they must present it to their client (or document why they didn't) otherwise how could they be acting in the interest of the client?

She did not purchase the site because the figures were incorrect. This is not a small operator one of the larger BA in Perth, its a worry.

 

[HD_ACE]

I don't believe this is the case and certainly not from my experience. It would be nice to think that this is how it works, but seriously it would naive IMO. BA is operating a business and he/she is there to make money, turning away clients is a good way to go backwards or broke.

It would depend on their bussiness model. But they wont be going broke. The reason they would turn people away is because they are at full capacity.

Full capacity= A happy medium between the number of clients and workload the ba can manage to the standard expected and the dollar turnover and timeline.

If their is more demand then they would need more ba's.

I have personaly had to wait in line so to speak for a spot to become available.
And i have also chosen to wait while they had a client with a similar scope to mine.

Just depends on the person i guess. I havnt met many ba's but i can imagine there would be some who would be driven by turnover rather than quality.

And no doubt any in the position to buy would keep a good deal to themselves which is a shame really.

Cheers