buying a house with tenants living there with out a lease

Don't be so naive.... Is a personal attack and defamatory, it is not a challenge on view points!

Renee - ignore button allows you to engage with only the people you want to engage with.

Thank you Xenia

I am finding the onslaught of comments very concerning

Renee
 
Disrespectful people are not able to be respectful lol.

It's for the most part not even about you, it can't be they don't know you!
 
...behaviour whereby empirical research has identified that past behaviours are a strong predictor of future behaviours.

Of course this doesn't apply to financial products where past performance does not predict future returns.


it says no bond ( i wasn't to concerned as they have lived there for 8 years i mean i'll try and get bond out of them ...

If there is no bond or low bond, you may not be able to require one be paid eg. In nsw it is prohibited to increase the amount of bond S159-161 NSW Residential Tenancies Act 2010. What is going to happen when the tenant leaves and goes to claim the bond (it has not been transferred to you to release and the previous owner is long gone).
 
Of course this doesn't apply to financial products where past performance does not predict future returns.




If there is no bond or low bond, you may not be able to require one be paid eg. In nsw it is prohibited to increase the amount of bond S159-161 NSW Residential Tenancies Act 2010. What is going to happen when the tenant leaves and goes to claim the bond (it has not been transferred to you to release and the previous owner is long gone).

No you are correct it certainly does not apply to financial products - I wish financial products were more predictable though
 
Hi all,

i'm looking to buy a property they have tenants living there who aren't on a lease as in theres no lease agreement at all. they have been there for 8 years and apparently are really good tenants (the REA says)

if i purchase it i'd want the tenants on a written lease. my question is should i get a written lease agreement before going unconditional? i'm worried that the tenants wont sign a lease once i buy it and it could be messy.

or is this just a common thing?

cheers

What are you going to do if you don't get that written lease? As far as I can tell, the only reason to demand it is if you plan to crash the contract or claim material information to your detriment was not disclosed and try to reduce the price before settlement.

If you plan to settle anyhow, then the situation is what it is and will still be the same thing after settlement so you would probably be better off getting your own PM to get the tenancy back on the straight and narrow rather than stirring the pot to no good effect now.

If you do get your written lease, how much better off will you be anyway? As a couple of people have pointed out, if they have been paying rent, there is a lease in place regardless and both you and the tenants have rights under an oral lease.

I would be looking at the representations made that they are "good tenants". It may be useful to get your solicitor to write to the vendor highlighting those representations and asking for evidence. Your solicitor will be able to tell you how useful.
 
What are you going to do if you don't get that written lease? As far as I can tell, the only reason to demand it is if you plan to crash the contract or claim material information to your detriment was not disclosed and try to reduce the price before settlement.

If you plan to settle anyhow, then the situation is what it is and will still be the same thing after settlement so you would probably be better off getting your own PM to get the tenancy back on the straight and narrow rather than stirring the pot to no good effect now.

If you do get your written lease, how much better off will you be anyway? As a couple of people have pointed out, if they have been paying rent, there is a lease in place regardless and both you and the tenants have rights under an oral lease.

I would be looking at the representations made that they are "good tenants". It may be useful to get your solicitor to write to the vendor highlighting those representations and asking for evidence. Your solicitor will be able to tell you how useful.


my only real concern is that they are actually paying rent, as i've now found out a oral agreement is just as good as a written one. so if they have been paying rent all my concerns are at easy. it's self managed so i'll talk to my solicitor tomorrow about how to get a leger of some time i'm guessing the vendor hasn't kept any records.
 
my only real concern is that they are actually paying rent, as i've now found out a oral agreement is just as good as a written one. so if they have been paying rent all my concerns are at easy. it's self managed so i'll talk to my solicitor tomorrow about how to get a leger of some time i'm guessing the vendor hasn't kept any records.

Surely vendor would have records. How does he add the rental income to his tax return without either bank records, a ledger?
 
We had the same issue. Property was self managed and absolutely no records of tenants paying. Tenants wanted to stay on and even lied to us about the actual rent they paid when it came for them to sign up a lease. Rent being paid was advertised when the property was being sold.

We only signed them up as we would have had to do work to the property if looking for new tenenats and as we had just bought the property wnated to wait a while before renovating.

They did sign and rented for about a year and a half before moving on. We renovated the place and have new tenents in.
 
TENANTS NAME:

TERM AND OPTIONS:

No Lease In Place
Managing Agent:

AGENCY NAME: Self Managed PROPERTY MANAGER:
ADDRESS:

RENT: $ 270

it says no bond ( i wasn't to concerned as they have lived there for 8 years i mean i'll try and get bond out of them but if they don't have enough money then i wont make a big stink about it, i know my friend who lives in a place and didn't pay bond either) and it doesn't give start date of lease either

It concerns me that there is no tenants name. The rent mentioned, is that weekly, monthly or annually? Additionally, I would assume that there is no entry condition report. As others have mentioned, being a good tenant, may indicate a good one going forward. Is it possible that the seller gave the tenant an incentive to "present" well while we sell. All this could have occurred before the agent visited the place, so even their view may be a very limited one.

What level of risk are you comfortable with. Get advice, perhaps from another local agent about your possible liabilities.
 
It concerns me that there is no tenants name. The rent mentioned, is that weekly, monthly or annually? Additionally, I would assume that there is no entry condition report. As others have mentioned, being a good tenant, may indicate a good one going forward. Is it possible that the seller gave the tenant an incentive to "present" well while we sell. All this could have occurred before the agent visited the place, so even their view may be a very limited one.

What level of risk are you comfortable with. Get advice, perhaps from another local agent about your possible liabilities.

i left the tenants name out. and its weekly but yes it doesn't say. and the concern you have about the tenants pretending to be nice is the same concern i have. i spoke to the agent today he said he had spoken to his principal and they at no cost are going to send the property manager to get the tenants on a 6 month lease with the current vendor and pay bond! sounds to good to be true but we'll see how it goes over the next couple of days. i also spoke to my solicitor and asked them to contact the vendors solicitor asking for a leger for the rent. i called the solicitor before i spoke to the REA
 
I would be asking for the lease if possible, and for different reasons, but one is that insurers may require it, if you want landlords insurance that is.

Also, depending on who your financing through, they may see this as a problem if they become aware.

At the end of the day, only you can decide if it is a deal breaker or too high a risk, we risk our lives everyday living too, so if it is a good deal......
 
the agent has signed the tenants up on a 6 month lease and written a clause in that bond is payable by 30th of june. they said they had no money. still just happy to have a lease. and no entry report was done.

i think it's a pretty good result, hopefully they are good tenants and pay the bond haha cheers all.
 
That's great you studied what you did. But your research says 'strong', not 'definitive', which means there is a chance that things can and do go wrong.

I backed up my criticism with examples of what can go wrong. I'm sure you agree that managing property is not 100% rosy all the time - you just don't like the fact it was pointed out.
I can give you a real example to back this up. I bought a dump with an existing tenant. Tenant paid the rent on time, every time and kept the house in a reasonably clean condition. I inspected a couple of times a year and the house was always acceptable. I had this tenant for a couple of years. Without any warning, the tenant advised they were leaving. Between the previous inspection and final inspection was about 4 months but the tenants behaviour changed a lot in that time. She got behind on her rent, did not keep the place clean and turned from friendly to hostile. She moved out with the house in an absolute mess, damaged and left with unpaid rent. It ended up in the tribunal. In my case, past performance did not predict future performance at all. In fact, it was not anywhere close. I am sure there are many more examples.

To the OP, you need to think carefully about taking this tenant on. In retrospect, I should have requested a vacant posession for my property. It seemed great at the time to have a tenant willing to stay on, but she ended up being more hassle than she was worth.
 
the agent has signed the tenants up on a 6 month lease and written a clause in that bond is payable by 30th of june. they said they had no money. still just happy to have a lease. and no entry report was done.

i think it's a pretty good result, hopefully they are good tenants and pay the bond haha cheers all.

Make sure you get your landlords insurance.
 
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